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Zero days on UAE gold visa. Will it work?

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hortm

Active Member
Apr 23, 2023
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#1
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Situation -

Passive investment bank account in Switzerland (Corporate, Seychelles);
UBO has 10 years UAE Gold Visa;
Has own apartment in UAE (more than AED 2m price);
Visits UAE zero times a year;
At bank on file has UAE residency;
Spends most of his time in Georgia, EU, Thailand;
Pays zero taxes.

Question -
Does this actually work?

UAE laws (please carefully read and mind word ANY):
https://mof.gov.ae/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Ministerial-Decision-27-of-2023-of-Tax-Residency.pdfhttps://tax.gov.ae/Datafolder/Files...inet Decision 85 of 2022 - For publishing.pdf
 
#2
Not enough information to decide, it will depend on where that person actually spends their time, ties to other countries (especially EU) etc.
Probably the person would simply not be tax resident anywhere, can't imagine the UAE would issue a tax residency certificate. But that by itself doesn't mean one would have to pay tax - but it would probably make it easier for some other country to claim you as tax resident.
So then the UAE residency wouldn't bring any benefits - you might as well drop it and get residency in Thailand or Georgia instead and set up something based on that.
 
#3
JustAnotherNomad said:
Not enough information to decide, it will depend on where that person actually spends their time, ties to other countries (especially EU) etc.
Probably the person would simply not be tax resident anywhere, can't imagine the UAE would issue a tax residency certificate. But that by itself doesn't mean one would have to pay tax - but it would probably make it easier for some other country to claim you as tax resident.
So then the UAE residency wouldn't bring any benefits - you might as well drop it and get residency in Thailand or Georgia instead and set up something based on that.
Click to expand...
I am thinking different angle. How potential country (one claiming he is resident there) will know about existence of the account? Switz sends no data to UAE.
 
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#4
Switzerland does send data to the UAE, they both have implemented CRS. But so what?
The question is which country could try to tax you in that situation. Not what will the UAE do or how could they find out.
 
#5
#6
The question is always - what is your home country? Do you have ties to your home country (property, family, etc)? Do you spend 180+ days a year at your home country?

Your biggest risk is always your home country asking you where do you pay taxes and asking for PROOF in form of tax residency certificate. Best course of action is to not have any money in your home country and not spend any time there. Thus it's less likely that they will care about you.

If you're coming from an aggressive country like Sweden\Germany\Spain, it's best to take extra precaution and make sure you can get a tax residency certificate in UAE (= actually spend 180+ days there) or at least have proof that you are in UAE often (think receipts for spending money there, buying food, phone bills, etc).
 
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#7
Paul Tudor Jones said:
The question is always - what is your home country? Do you have ties to your home country (property, family, etc)? Do you spend 180+ days a year at your home country?

Your biggest risk is always your home country asking you where do you pay taxes and asking for PROOF in form of tax residency certificate. Best course of action is to not have any money in your home country and not spend any time there. Thus it's less likely that they will care about you.

If you're coming from an aggressive country like Sweden\Germany\Spain, it's best to take extra precaution and make sure you can get a tax residency certificate in UAE (= actually spend 180+ days there) or at least have proof that you are in UAE often (think receipts for spending money there, buying food, phone bills, etc).
Click to expand...
I do not understand how country claiming be be my home will know that bank account even exists. Data cuts after Switz. They are not sending info to UAE.
 
#8
Paul Tudor Jones said:
The question is always - what is your home country?
Click to expand...

I don't understand why in this day and age people still talk about "home countries". I left my "home country" when I was 18 years old.

Paul Tudor Jones said:
Do you spend 180+ days a year at your home country?
Click to expand...

Irrelevant - could become liable for tax much sooner.

Paul Tudor Jones said:
Your biggest risk is always your home country asking you where do you pay taxes and asking for PROOF in form of tax residency certificate.
Click to expand...

Some countries may do that, but it's not relevant. You can be tax resident in multiple countries at the same time, and you can be liable for taxes without being tax resident in a country.

Paul Tudor Jones said:
If you're coming from an aggressive country like Sweden\Germany\Spain, it's best to take extra precaution and make sure you can get a tax residency certificate in UAE
Click to expand...

That's really funny because neither Sweden nor Germany have a tax treaty with the UAE, so they won't give two shits about a TRC from the UAE.

Paul Tudor Jones said:
(= actually spend 180+ days there)
Click to expand...

That's not even required to get a TRC.

I'm amazed how much wrong information you could cram into such a short post.

hortm said:
I do not understand how country claiming be be my home will know that bank account even exists. Data cuts after Switz. They are not sending info to UAE.
Click to expand...

They can still use other information, it's not like they can only send info to the country you declared when you signed up for the account.
It's also not a very good strategy to rely on lack of information exchange. What if Switzerland changes the rules tomorrow and decides to report for previous years as well?
 
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#9
JustAnotherNomad said:
I don't understand why in this day and age people still talk about "home countries". I left my "home country" when I was 18 years old.



Irrelevant - could become liable for tax much sooner.



Some countries may do that, but it's not relevant. You can be tax resident in multiple countries at the same time, and you can be liable for taxes without being tax resident in a country.



That's really funny because neither Sweden nor Germany have a tax treaty with the UAE, so they won't give two shits about a TRC from the UAE.



That's not even required to get a TRC.

I'm amazed how much wrong information you could cram into such a short post.



They can still use other information, it's not like they can only send info to the country you declared when you signed up for the account.
It's also not a very good strategy to rely on lack of information exchange. What if Switzerland changes the rules tomorrow and decides to report for previous years as well?
Click to expand...
If Switz report to UAE than, most probably, nothing will happen. UAE will throw data away.

Do you know what exactly other information is shared? I think nothing is shared if BO's name on account is not used (entity used).

I have spoken with private bankers in US and Switz - they told they are not reporting to UAE, Bahrain, etc. UAE, Bahrain are reporting to them via CRS auto ex., Fatca.
 
#10
If you spend your time in those countries as a tourist (no resident permit) and don't use/open local bank accounts it should work (90 days EU -> 90 days Georgia -> 90 days Thailand -> 90 days elsewhere (Bahamas for example).
However there are known cases when swiss banks leaked and databases were bought by tax authorities.
 
#12
Guys, why does it matter at all? Get back to my question above. Switz is not in EU. Data shall not come to EU even if some country shall start claiming I am tax resident there (IMHO, very low chance).
 
#15
meze99 said:
I never heard about tourists who rented a villa for 3 months being taxed in EU.
Click to expand...

Not EU, but Switzerland has 90 days, potentially less than that because "short absences" don't even count. So you spend 13 weeks in Switzerland, Monday-Friday, that's just 65 days, but you could become tax resident.
Would they catch you and really and come after you? Probably not. Especially not if you have closer ties to another country and there's a tax treaty.
Other EU countries have something like 270 days in a rolling 36-month period as a limit, which also comes down to 90 days per year. And just like Switzerland, short absences often aren't counted.
Again, you could probably stay under the radar quite easily, but this could absolutely happen, especially if it's your home country.

And then obviously there are crazy examples like Germany where simply having access to an apartment (the possibility to use it whenever you want, whether you actually spend time there or not, whether you are registered as a resident or not) can trigger tax residency.
 
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#17
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#18
#20
TheCryptoAnt said:
but how?

if you have no place in your name neither rented nor bought, no local bank account, no local phone number, no local insurance...
how am you really living in that place?
Click to expand...
I am also thinking this is unlikely. Even if I buy real estate. I can register all valuable stuff on relative who clearly lives in some other place.
 
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