best residence for crypto earnings

[cal123]

Hi, I was wondering which country would you advice to cashout crypto earnings 6-7 digits for a european citizen and to keep trading activity, and lending with lowest taxes for all (0% if possible), if possible later invest in real estate in europe

I have seen differents possibilities, but I was wondering what was the easiest, knowing the target would be to go live in the country for 2-3 years to cashout all and have all "clear" and cashed out, the whole in a developed country (with good internet, airport, security...), and then to move elsewhere once cashout is done
the problem wil also be related to the administration, and the banks there, do they let you cashout ?

1) UAE : it seems there is 0% tax there but is it actually easy to go there and trade crypto and get 0% tax without an accountancy and a risk? but I heard they didnt allow crypto activity still officialy, so until it would be forbidden ? and should you trade crypto as a business or as an individual (if you have no other activity), if someone know how to setup there as a crypto trader and what prices per year it would cost approximately would be nice
2) malta, is it a good idea to go there, then lend the crypto already earnt for 0%, and 5% on the new gains, it seems, but then some complain about the bureaucracy, acountancy and some stuff that would make it a not so good solution and create risks related to the previous country, but what about malta+ delaware setting ? going to malta, then just set a delaware corp which would get the crypto for 0% and also later the dividend from the maltese company (because malta doesnt tax foreign incomes), I have heard there was no acountancy needed even on delaware corps, is that even true ?
3)thailand, I have heard a lot that it would be possible to get 0% tax in thailand, with 0% but it seems to be a gray area

what do you think is the best for pure tax wise and business point of view ? Are there better ways ?(for example staying in a high tax country and giving the crypto to an offshore corp oO) Or other countries to go to to benefit of 0% ?
thnanks

 

[Clip]

Hong Kong and Singapore are also tax exempt but geting visas are really expensive, banking is hard but once you get it its really helpful

 

[Tax Cow]

What is your risk tolerance? Willing to cross the line of legality or not?

For least risk, no tax, and no bureaucracy, go to a country like Antigua. They abolished personal income tax recently. There are dozens of similar countries around, but they tend to be a little more expensive (Cayman Islands, Bermuda) etc. In Antigua, you can still take advantage of lower living costs.

 

[Stefano3323]

Singapore capital gain is 0% so you can cash out with no problems. Also, moving the capital from a Singapore Bank account to Europe for investment is actually quite simple.

You do have however few challenges for Singapore:
1) To get a visa you need to set up a company, transfer funds to the company bank account, apply for either an EP or an EtrePass, the application process depends on your age, qualification, work experiences, and most important salary;
2) Bank account. Even if Singapore is pro crypto, banks are not, if you try to open a bank account and mention you are running crypto-related stuff they will not allow you an account. EMI like transferwise requires a maximum of S$10,000 in the account, which is not much.

Other option could be to set up a company in other country (Seychelles, Wyoming, Panama) get a bank account and use the company to run the trading. Majority of offshores have 0% capital gain so that should be fine too.

 

[cal123]

Singapore seems to tax crypto professional trading according to forbes: Seven Countries Where Cryptocurrency Investments Are Not Taxed

But Dubai seems to be much cheaper than Singapore to incorporate if talking about 0% not too exotic residency, both to incorporate (about 10kusd per year for companyin a freezone and maintain residency), to fly from europe and cost of living
I guess crypto online trading and forex, stock trading are taxed 0% in dubai as they are not undergoing the VAT, if i'm right ?

What is your risk tolerance? Willing to cross the line of legality or not?

For least risk, no tax, and no bureaucracy, go to a country like Antigua. They abolished personal income tax recently. There are dozens of similar countries around, but they tend to be a little more expensive (Cayman Islands, Bermuda) etc. In Antigua, you can still take advantage of lower living costs.

The target is to be legal in the new country

 

[Clip]

Singapore seems to tax crypto professional trading according to forbes:

Is Taxable if the crypto comes from a payment.
HK law is the same, but Tax office just ignore it

 

[Andrei636]

are there some easier solutions without a selection as in singapore, or with slightly lower cost of life/closer to europe, anyone got a review on Dubai ? is it possible to get residence there, then trade crypto online there without hassle (with hassle I am not speaking about bank hassle, which would be the problem absolutely almost everywhere)?

 

[Stefano3323]

are there some easier solutions without a selection as in singapore, or with slightly lower cost of life/closer to europe, anyone got a review on Dubai ? is it possible to get residence there, then trade crypto online there without hassle (with hassle I am not speaking about bank hassle, which would be the problem absolutely almost everywhere)?

You could just set up an IBC somewhere and run the trades via the corporate account. A lot of crypto people leaves in Bali under a tourist visa. Normally those people spend less than 6 months in the country and then they spend another less than 6 in another place like Thailand... All via tourist visas.

 

[nomad999]

what the end game I don't get it ? if you are not resident somewhere you passport country will claim taxes if I am not mistaken or ?

 

[Stefano3323]

what the end game I don't get it ? if you are not resident somewhere you passport country will claim taxes if I am not mistaken or ?

That really depends of the passport you have. In majority of cases to be taxed you need to spend at least 6 months in a country (again, it depends). SO even if you have a passport from country X and spend less than 6 month a year in country X, and in simple you can prove you are not carrying business in country X, your country will not ask you for taxes. Except if you have a US passport, in that case you always have to pay even if you are outside US.

 

[nomad999]

hmm ok interesting, but banking would be the issue, I guess with a bank account in a non CRS country that could work if you set this up before you leave.
That would be tax evasion in most casese though, like most countries in EU you are required to declare your income unless you are taxed somewhere else with a double taxation treaty. If you only make enough to live thats no problem, but if you make a lot you'll have issues later on to buy properties or whatever expensive as it would be considered bad money by the banks and financial institutions.

 

[Stefano3323]

hmm ok interesting, but banking would be the issue, I guess with a bank account in a non CRS country that could work if you set this up before you leave.
That would be tax evasion in most casese though, like most countries in EU you are required to declare your income unless you are taxed somewhere else with a double taxation treaty. If you only make enough to live thats no problem, but if you make a lot you'll have issues later on to buy properties or whatever expensive as it would be considered bad money by the banks and financial institutions.

Why would bank be an issue and why would be tax evasion? You will have a bank account for your company and there is no law saying if you have a personal bank account in country X you must stay in that country for the rest of your life. There is however the fact that they might close your account in some years if you are not using it. Tax evasion if you don't pay your taxes, sure, but if you are not living in the country X that doesn't apply. The digital nomads and the permanent travellers, are all people doing exactly that. Why would that be considered bad money? Majority of countries don't make you paying taxes if you are not living in that country for more than 6 months.

 

[Clip]

Majority of countries don't make you paying taxes if you are not living in that country for more than 6 months.

There are many nomads traveling between South East Asian countries for periods of 3-6 months while they work online and don't pay any tax

 

[JohnLocke]

The digital nomads and the permanent travellers, are all people doing exactly that. Why would that be considered bad money? Majority of countries don't make you paying taxes if you are not living in that country for more than 6 months.

I don't believe there is anything wrong nor will it be considered black-money if you pay your taxes. The only issue I see, in this ever changing world, is that you will have difficulties to prove where the money comes from but if you have that part in place too (somehow) then all will be fine.

I know personally a few guys that are so called "digital nomads" they are doing greate.

 

[Clip]

How is the Bitcoin ecosystem in Dubai? Is there good OTC? Cash deals? Banking problems ?
Thanks

 

[nomad999]

Why would bank be an issue and why would be tax evasion? You will have a bank account for your company and there is no law saying if you have a personal bank account in country X you must stay in that country for the rest of your life. There is however the fact that they might close your account in some years if you are not using it. Tax evasion if you don't pay your taxes, sure, but if you are not living in the country X that doesn't apply. The digital nomads and the permanent travellers, are all people doing exactly that. Why would that be considered bad money? Majority of countries don't make you paying taxes if you are not living in that country for more than 6 months.

I know a lot of digital nomads are doing this, but I am pretty certain most of them are not doing it legally and in fact owe tax somewhere but are unaware of it or are playing dumb.
Just leaving your country in many cases isn't enough to stop paying tax there, a lot of paperwork is involved as you have to prove that you pay tax somewhere else.
Regarding corporate tax, if the company doesn't have some economic substance somewhere, aka full time employees and minimum annual operating expenditure, then the company is taxed in the country of residence of the director, so hiding behind a company won't help in this case.
The bank kind of act as a barrier for all this as all banks in CRS countries will ask you to provide a tax id along with a proof of residency.

I am not saying it's not possible, many people do it I know.
I am saying it is in fact tax evasion in many cases, if one of those digital nomad ever goes back to their country of origin the tax man could likely catch up to them if it is worth it, for Europe at least its pretty clear.

I am currently trying to do this and staying on the legal side without tax evasion and it is a bit of a nightmare ...

 

[lionel234]

Wouldnt Portugal be good? They have 0% on foreign residents . And in the media they say ”crypto-friendly”

 

[JohnLocke]

And in the media they say ”crypto-friendly”

That's great but what does the banks in Portugal say if you walk into the bank and tell them you are going to trade crypto professional to make a business from it?

I don't know, so if you live ther it would be great to figure that out.