Brokerage account for Panama company

[romalo]

Are you looking for a stock trading account or a business account with a Bank?

Business account with bank!

update paysera
Support chat said: Panama YES,
Emailteam said: NO PANAMA, technically not possible
KYC team just send email they wanted extra documents but NOT rejected Panama.

Total confusion but I pray to got because Paysera is by far the cheapest.

Wittix/Bankera/Paysera start application fee: €3000/€450/€100
Wittix/Bankera/Paysera monthly 'maintenance' fee: €250/€50/€10

 

[kilor]

Wittix/Bankera/Paysera monthly 'maintenance' fee: €250/€50/€10

you want to base your business on EMI's ?

I have not been around here for long but came here because I read this https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...th-–-a-dream-pushing-to-become-reality.36104/ which was published on another website?

 

[efcruzat]

Hi! I was able to open an account with Swissquote after months of back and forward, and compliance.
I had to send hard copy of every document, but finally I was able to open it. So there an option for you guys

I know IBKR and Tastyworks are possible

IBKR rejected the account

 

[chaltron]

That's good news!

Does Swissquote allow third party deposits? Or how have you been able to transfer from a bank account in name of the company to Swissquote?

 

[efcruzat]

I don´t know about third party deposits. I was able to fund the account with funds from a corporate bank account from the same company. I already had the bank account (Metrobank Panama), I was mainly looking for a brokerage account.

 

[mAzzy]

We sell software worldwide. But because I'm no tax payer in Netherlands we started company in Panama to sell off-the-shelf software products.
But clients can not pay easily to Panama bank accounts and they dont have API's like Stripe/revolut etc.

End of this year or next year i go to live in Andorra for few months and now open company there (2% CIT)
and pay dividend to me private(0% tax)
So i transfer all my business money to private money in Andorra.
thats the plan.

The 2% special trading tax regime in Andorra no longer exists. No escape to the default 10%

 

[romalo]

The 2% special trading tax regime in Andorra no longer exists. No escape to the default 10%

Thast helpfull but bad news, very bad. In november 2 lawyers said it was possible. Mailed them booth and will put feedback here.

Update:
Paysera : NO panama after yes/no stories.
Wittix offered us a much lower and little bit more realstic price (Price plan C) and is getting interesting now. -> 0,25% Swift, 99,-/month, 850,- start application

Hi! I was able to open an account with Swissquote after months of back and forward, and compliance.
I had to send hard copy of every document, but finally I was able to open it. So there an option for you guys


IBKR rejected the account

still no reply from them after 2 days, bus nevertheless thx for your post !

 

[Fred]

In accordance with my experience you made the best out of a Panama Company with having a Swissquote Account and a local Panama Account.

It's very unusual that IBKR rejects the Account as they usually just follow the more regulated institutions banking the company already (in this case Metrobank Panama)

However already met several clients complaining about issues with IBKR and even just with a Personal Account they are getting rejected.

So far we don't see this issues with Dubai Company - at least we never received an IBKR rejection on Swissquote opened the account and we just provide IBKR with the Swissquote Bank Statements.

As long as you use Swissquote services with a good amount of money let's say 1m$+ I have never see them complaining about some Business Transactions however from our experience they keeping an eye on it and don't just want to be used as a Business Current Account with Day to Day Banking.

I would avoid all this mentioned EMI's.

 

[romalo]

In accordance with my experience you made the best out of a Panama Company with having a Swissquote Account and a local Panama Account.

It's very unusual that IBKR rejects the Account as they usually just follow the more regulated institutions banking the company already (in this case Metrobank Panama)

However already met several clients complaining about issues with IBKR and even just with a Personal Account they are getting rejected.

So far we don't see this issues with Dubai Company - at least we never received an IBKR rejection on Swissquote opened the account and we just provide IBKR with the Swissquote Bank Statements.

As long as you use Swissquote services with a good amount of money let's say 1m$+ I have never see them complaining about some Business Transactions however from our experience they keeping an eye on it and don't just want to be used as a Business Current Account with Day to Day Banking.

I would avoid all this mentioned EMI's.

Do you have substance in Panama?

Paysera now asks for online evidence of the UBO, on Panama government website. But a spanish S.A is anonymous right? so never this info can be find online I think?

Thx! (ps contacing swissquote again)

I don´t know about third party deposits. I was able to fund the account with funds from a corporate bank account from the same company. I already had the bank account (Metrobank Panama), I was mainly looking for a brokerage account.

I also have the feeling this swissquote is not ment to receive payments from others. But Maybe from our Stripe account a monthly payment is no problem.

 

[uplana]

Update:
- Binance accepted our Panama company.
- Bankera says they will except.
-CIMbanque Switzerland surprisingly mailed back they want to revieuw our case again.
More updates soon

That's a great list of services that accept your business. Thank you for updating this thread that frequently.

 

[Fred]

Paysera now asks for online evidence of the UBO, on Panama government website. But a spanish S.A is anonymous right? so never this info can be find online I think?

Thx! (ps contacing swissquote again)

We are working through Swissquote UAE DIFC Office and I know from the guys there what they are looking for. All in all you can see Swissquote as a Brokerage account with dedicated IBAN - technically you have more possibilities with Swissquote thej with IBKR but in practice you will run into issues facilitating your daily business with Swissquote.

About Paysera things went dramatically downhill the last 1 year instead of telling the people straight they don't work any longer with non-EU companies the compliance asks for documents that simply doesn't exist - we approved the last Dubai Freezone Accounts last year February and since then they simply doesn't any longer accept the Company Register where you can check if a company is active or not - no UBO or Person's behind of course.

We followed there compliance loophole and created all the requested documents somehow customized with Authorities like MofA involved - ended up paying close to 2000€ and once everything was clarified they still rejected the application with no reason given "internal policy" - now the companies opened a year ago facing the same questions so they will close the existing accounts as well.

Don't waste your Time for a Panama Company with a Paysera account - shame over them they wasting people's time.

 

[romalo]

We are working through Swissquote UAE DIFC Office and I know from the guys there what they are looking for. All in all you can see Swissquote as a Brokerage account with dedicated IBAN - technically you have more possibilities with Swissquote thej with IBKR but in practice you will run into issues facilitating your daily business with Swissquote.

About Paysera things went dramatically downhill the last 1 year instead of telling the people straight they don't work any longer with non-EU companies the compliance asks for documents that simply doesn't exist - we approved the last Dubai Freezone Accounts last year February and since then they simply doesn't any longer accept the Company Register where you can check if a company is active or not - no UBO or Person's behind of course.

We followed there compliance loophole and created all the requested documents somehow customized with Authorities like MofA involved - ended up paying close to 2000€ and once everything was clarified they still rejected the application with no reason given "internal policy" - now the companies opened a year ago facing the same questions so they will close the existing accounts as well.

Don't waste your Time for a Panama Company with a Paysera account - shame over them they wasting people's time.

Good info. I already discovered now that these companies start asking for online website which shows the UBO.
I'm no specialist, but the spanish words S.A stands far anonymous and therefore do not list the UBO online on government page right?.

Some good news about Andorra:


The special regime for software licenses still exists (only software and industrial patents still qualify) however you need to source some of the development through an employee in Andorra to qualify for the special 2% CIT regime.

Another option is to have the Andorra company receive dividends but as you mention the holding regime requires 4% taxation at the source(Panama = 0%). Dividends may be taxed at 10% if not qualifying for the exemption.

I believe qualifying for the special regime should be a possibility if you plan to have substance anyway.

So do you people agree that Andorra is the pace to be?
They except SEPA, IBAN, you can live in Barcelona, travel in EU. etc etc. Has some EU benefits.
pay 2-10% CIT and 0% income tax on dividend payed out by the andorra company.

I live in Medellin, Worlds secret diamond for business and high quality living. But taxes are high here. So for 6 months (in 1 year) go to Andorra, travel in EU, convert all my company money to private money for just 2%. And then go back to Medellin.

 

[EuroKiss]

I'm no specialist, but the spanish words S.A stands far anonymous and therefore do not list the UBO online on government page right?.

just to clarify this point: in Latin America a company can be S.A. (sociedad anónima) or C.A. (Compañía anónima). This doesn’t specifically mean that the UBO is anonymous.

 

[romalo]

Dear Client

Thank you for contacting us,

What I will just need is information about shareholder where I can see it in the register cause it is as what you have indicated I can only see list of the directors .

Panama register seem they do not keep records of companies Ultimate beneficial Owners. Please contact register and ask how you can file information about company "Ultimate Beneficial Owners"
The shareholder register list and the Notary Memorandum& Articles.pdf do not suffice our requirement. As it is not something we can see in the register .

To me it sounds like a total irrational demand.

 

[EuroKiss]

Dear Client

Thank you for contacting us,

What I will just need is information about shareholder where I can see it in the register cause it is as what you have indicated I can only see list of the directors .

Panama register seem they do not keep records of companies Ultimate beneficial Owners. Please contact register and ask how you can file information about company "Ultimate Beneficial Owners"
The shareholder register list and the Notary Memorandum& Articles.pdf do not suffice our requirement. As it is not something we can see in the register .

To me it sounds like a total irrational demand.

If they don’t get the UBOs they never know if one of them is from USA. Not irrational, I guess anonymous set-up are way long gone.

 

[romalo]

How do you mean? we supplied a physical document. But they don't accept. needs to be "online". Do you think the "register" will seriously change their website for us?(as they somehow ask for) Don't think thats realistic.

 

[EuroKiss]

How do you mean? we supplied a physical document. But they don't accept. needs to be "online". Do you think the "register" will seriously change their website for us?(as they somehow ask for) Don't think thats realistic.

Correct both things. They want to see the UBO in an official online site (think like the covid jab, the qrcode is to check on an official web service), and of course Panama gov won’t change it (at least for now).

 

[mAzzy]

Good info. I already discovered now that these companies start asking for online website which shows the UBO.
I'm no specialist, but the spanish words S.A stands far anonymous and therefore do not list the UBO online on government page right?

Some good news about Andorra:


The special regime for software licenses still exists (only software and industrial patents still qualify) however you need to source some of the development through an employee in Andorra to qualify for the special 2% CIT regime.

Another option is to have the Andorra company receive dividends but as you mention the holding regime requires 4% taxation at the source(Panama = 0%). Dividends may be taxed at 10% if not qualifying for the exemption.

I believe qualifying for the special regime should be a possibility if you plan to have substance anyway.

So do you people agree that Andorra is the pace to be?
They except SEPA, IBAN, you can live in Barcelona, travel in EU. etc etc. Has some EU benefits.
pay 2-10% CIT and 0% income tax on dividend payed out by the andorra company.

I live in Medellin, Worlds secret diamond for business and high quality living. But taxes are high here. So for 6 months (in 1 year) go to Andorra, travel in EU, convert all my company money to private money for just 2%. And then go back to Medellin.

Do you mind to share which lawyer advised you through PM ? In fact, other friends confirmed me the 2% discounted tax regime was abolished
About the 4% holding regime, almost no juridiction worldwide fit in, Romania at 5% but only matching specific conditions, Barbados at 5.5% but requiring economic substance, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Montenegro, Hungary, not financially interesting (7.5%-9%) to be noticeable.

Andorra is nice overall (there since 10 years)
About local banks, they disregard the SEPA norm fee wise outbound, so it's not economical to get money out of the country. No SEPA Instant. Their risk appetite can be picky. I.e. crypto handling is manageable to some extent but tricky but I was also invited to leave 3 out of the 5 banks for just transfering money to Forex brokers abroad years ago, which were deemed as "bridge accounts", making me a criminal, ah. Instead, as a fix for this blockage, I was proposed to trade through their desk via phone, no terminal, at outrageous 10 fold fees hahaha.
Even commercial traders can be bothered because half the banks target private banking and now with merger & acquisitions, there will soon be left only 3 institutions to serve the country. All in all, you're better off to bank abroad (even in nearby Spain), which is doable but with limited choice since being outside of the EEA zone often closes doors.

There is no legal fundamental right to be granted owbership of at least one local bank account, unlike in France. It remains a privilege. It's your duty to maintain at least one since it's going to be mandatory to function here (for instance, tax refunds cannot happen on foreign accounts, but not only). So watch out, because if they ever decide to kick you out following a mistep judged in their eyes, there is no turning back. If your activities are commonly typical though, there should be no problem if you select the right horse to partner with.

 

[nobel]

Do you mind to share which lawyer advised you through PM ? In fact, other friends confirmed me the 2% discounted tax regime was abolished
About the 4% holding regime, almost no juridiction worldwide fit in, Romania at 5% but only matching specific conditions, Barbados at 5.5% but requiring economic substance, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Montenegro, Hungary, not financially interesting (7.5%-9%) to be noticeable.

Andorra is nice overall (there since 10 years)
About local banks, they disregard the SEPA norm fee wise outbound, so it's not economical to get money out of the country. No SEPA Instant. Their risk appetite can be picky. I.e. crypto handling is manageable to some extent but tricky but I was also invited to leave 3 out of the 5 banks for just transfering money to Forex brokers abroad years ago, which were deemed as "bridge accounts", making me a criminal, ah. Instead, as a fix for this blockage, I was proposed to trade through their desk via phone, no terminal, at outrageous 10 fold fees hahaha.
Even commercial traders can be bothered because half the banks target private banking and now with merger & acquisitions, there will soon be left only 3 institutions to serve the country. All in all, you're better off to bank abroad (even in nearby Spain), which is doable but with limited choice since being outside of the EEA zone often closes doors.

There is no legal fundamental right to be granted owbership of at least one local bank account, unlike in France. It remains a privilege. It's your duty to maintain at least one since it's going to be mandatory to function here (for instance, tax refunds cannot happen on foreign accounts, but not only). So watch out, because if they ever decide to kick you out following a mistep judged in their eyes, there is no turning back. If your activities are commonly typical though, there should be no problem if you select the right horse to partner with.

Banks and authorities must comply with the SEPA rule and also transfer refunds outside of Andorra.
But the banks in Andorra and everything else are pretty bitchy. I know they charge at least 50€ and more for a SEPA transfer. Incoming SEPA money costs about 12€. Rip off! Do not keep your wealth in Andorra!!

 

[mAzzy]

Banks and authorities must comply with the SEPA rule and also transfer refunds outside of Andorra.
But the banks in Andorra and everything else are pretty bitchy. I know they charge at least 50€ and more for a SEPA transfer. Incoming SEPA money costs about 12€. Rip off! Do not keep your wealth in Andorra!!

Only 1 bank charges your mentionned sum for incoming SEPA, the others are free. For outcoming, it will be around 30 € for SEPA and 30€ + 0.65% for SWIFT, along those lines. But negotiating is common and some "good clients" obtained as low as 0.1% eventually.
Workaround, typically for smaller amounts, Paysend and Wise can get your money out of the country to the SEPA zone for free or quasi via card payment (one bank in particular set my debit card's limit to 50k /day without a fight). Anyway, lit people bank abroad while keeping the minimum to live inside, for the sake of convenience. I do maintain a list of all foreign banks and EMIs compatible with local residents and the choice is still quite large despite restrictions