Cashing out Crypto in the EU / outside EU

[RickSanchez]

Dear Community, maybe someone here has experience with this.

I've just read the thread of the user @mariodraghi (Can't cash out my crypto and live my life...). He would like to cash out his Crypto but has no Source of funds of any kind.

I'm having a similar problem with one difference: I still have an old purchase invoice from an EU exchange for about half of my Cryptos, but can't provide a detailed transaction history.

How far do you get if you just have an old exchange purchase receipt of, say, 0.5 coins and now want to sell 1 coin?
Problem: Almost the entire trading & transaction history is missing and also no longer reconstructable (because e.g. the exchange no longer exists, I didn't write the trades down, DeFi and so on).

What are the chances of being able to pay out at least the 0.5 coins in the EU eg. in Bulgaria or Greece? Or do the exchanges and banks block everything completely if the history of these coins cannot be explained? Maybe via an OTC provider? What is the situation outside the EU, e.g. in Georgia (the country in Eastern Europe)? Hope I have explained it understandably. Appreciate any experience report.

 

[bonox]

Best to speak with a tax lawyer on how to go about it. I would not mess around with some fake stuff or so. Or you do some factoring, some users around are good in this, not me.

 

[Asmodeus]

The question is how much money do you actually want to cash out?
1M ? 5M ? 10M?

Different amounts require different approaches.

The best and easiest way is to get out of Europe and return after 3 years (at least on paper).

You will get the most chill banks with residency outside europe.

If you are under 500k it's not even worth it. Do some easy stuff like buying real estate with a loan and fix it with cash and flip it.

 

[banafinfodafuggiano]

Wait until enough places accept crypto as payments.

Then buy cars, houses, gold, metals...

Or sell your crypto for cash...



...Oh wait, you can already do that.

 

[RickSanchez]

The question is how much money do you actually want to cash out?
1M ? 5M ? 10M?

Different amounts require different approaches.

The best and easiest way is to get out of Europe and return after 3 years (at least on paper).

You will get the most chill banks with residency outside europe.

If you are under 500k it's not even worth it. Do some easy stuff like buying real estate with a loan and fix it with cash and flip it.

First of all, thanks to all three user for your replies.
@Asmodeus Yes, I'm under the 500k.

Just to get it right: Your tip is to get a regular bank loan, sell crypto for cash and pay the monthly bank loan back in cash?
The bank and tax office will freak out if there is so much cash paid in every month. Not interested in trouble. Also happy to my capital gains tax if necessary.

Besides that, there is no chance in the EU to sell crypto via exchange (or even OTC service) and bank transfer when the trading history is missing, even though a buying receipt exists, correct?

 

[JohnnyDoe]

It is easier to justify physical gold than crypto

 

[RickSanchez]

It is easier to justify physical gold than crypto

Ok, lets say you buy Gold with Crypto and then sell it via a Singapore Bullion Service or local buyer/seller to your bank account.

Still, won't the bank (and the tax office) start making trouble and ask for source of funds? How could you afford buying and selling so much Gold?

 

[JackAlabama]

First of all, thanks to all three user for your replies.
@Asmodeus Yes, I'm under the 500k.

Just to get it right: Your tip is to get a regular bank loan, sell crypto for cash and pay the monthly bank loan back in cash?
The bank and tax office will freak out if there is so much cash paid in every month. Not interested in trouble. Also happy to my capital gains tax if necessary.

Besides that, there is no chance in the EU to sell crypto via exchange (or even OTC service) and bank transfer when the trading history is missing, even though a buying receipt exists, correct?

Keep crypto. Dont sell it for a melting ice cube (cash) held inside an inferno (bank).

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Ok, lets say you buy Gold with Crypto and then sell it via a Singapore Bullion Service or local buyer/seller to your bank account.

Still, won't the bank (and the tax office) start making trouble and ask for source of funds? How could you afford buying and selling so much Gold?

You can’t date and trace gold

 

[void]

You can’t date and trace gold

true

but most institutions nowadays have no clue how to trace crypto either - in other words cashing out 0.5 coin twice to different account and showing the same purchase documentation will work almost always

 

[RickSanchez]

You can’t date and trace gold

So you are saying, the bank would not ask where this money transfer came from? And if you say from a Gold sale, then they won't ask where you had the money from to buy all the Gold or if you say it's from Greatgreat Grandpa (in case you can melt it) they won't want to see supporting documents of ownership? Or the tax office?

From which country are you talking? UAE? Or do you think this would be possible in the EU?

Maybe I'm overthinking, but I doubt that its that easy.

true

but most institutions nowadays have no clue how to trace crypto either - in other words cashing out 0.5 coin twice to different account and showing the same purchase documentation will work almost always

Thanks for your answer. Purchase docs are one thing and I also think that would work, but the issue here is would they want to see a transaction/trading history? I have doubts that the purchasing doc will be sufficient

 

[JohnnyDoe]

So you are saying, the bank would not ask where this money transfer came from? And if you say from a Gold sale, then they won't ask where you had the money from to buy all the Gold or if you say it's from Greatgreat Grandpa (in case you can melt it) they won't want to see supporting documents of ownership? Or the tax office?

You need to be smart enough not to ask these questions

From which country are you talking? UAE? Or do you think this would be possible in the EU?

EU

 

[void]

Purchase docs are one thing and I also think that would work, but the issue here is would they want to see a transaction/trading history?

big bank in Western Europe having a chain analysis software and being under regulatory pressure will maybe cause trouble

the rest almost never - you're too early and they don't have a clue what's going on

just an opinion others might easily disagree with...

 

[Asmodeus]

First of all, thanks to all three user for your replies.
@Asmodeus Yes, I'm under the 500k.

Just to get it right: Your tip is to get a regular bank loan, sell crypto for cash and pay the monthly bank loan back in cash?
The bank and tax office will freak out if there is so much cash paid in every month. Not interested in trouble. Also happy to my capital gains tax if necessary.

Besides that, there is no chance in the EU to sell crypto via exchange (or even OTC service) and bank transfer when the trading history is missing, even though a buying receipt exists, correct?

No i don't mean that you should repay the loan with cash. You pay the materials and companies that fix your house in cash. Almost every carpenter, plumber, electrician etc. accepts cash as a payment.
200k-300k easy possible with one property.

And it's so easy to exchange crypto to cash without KYC or SoF inside europe.

 

[Rexstone]

And it's so easy to exchange crypto to cash without KYC or SoF inside europe.

how? pardon my stupidity