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Fake TIF number
- Thread starter pixbix
- Start date
It costs about 200$ to obtain a genuine TIN in Portugal, and anyone can get it online.
Yeah , but I have like 70 000 USD in stocks there, and i kept adding at a rate of 5000$/month. Won't they ask from where is the money? the Portuguese Government? if they see me i am a forein guy?
won't they communicate with my country IRS? won't they try to tax me for money i made outside Portugal for example?
Maybe, maybe not. Banks are required to make a reasonability test when they receive a customer's CRS self-certification. Some countries offer TIN verification services, that banks can use to double check that you provided accurate details.
It also depends on if you draw attention, leave obvious clues, and do anything suspicious/high risk. Some banks look at transaction details (i.e. your address with other banks when you receive money from them), IP/device location, and transaction pattern to automatically detect potential CRS/FATCA evasion.
If a bank suspects something might be wrong, they might ask you for tax returns and/or certificate of tax residence.
If you're just some average, uninteresting customer that never does anything that raises eyebrows and you can satisfy any simple questions that comes up, it might go undetected.
It also depends on if you draw attention, leave obvious clues, and do anything suspicious/high risk. Some banks look at transaction details (i.e. your address with other banks when you receive money from them), IP/device location, and transaction pattern to automatically detect potential CRS/FATCA evasion.
If a bank suspects something might be wrong, they might ask you for tax returns and/or certificate of tax residence.
If you're just some average, uninteresting customer that never does anything that raises eyebrows and you can satisfy any simple questions that comes up, it might go undetected.
Personally, I would NOT do this!
In law, there is a distinction between: Lying by commission — the active use of false statements e.g. "FAKE TIF"— and lying by omission — the passive act of misleading by failing to disclose relevant information.
I would argue that omission is NOT misleading because nobody is a clairvoyant and misunderstanding questions happens ALL the time. Even among learned Supreme Court justices.
Now, deliberately giving a false TIF number establishes mens rea.
In law, there is a distinction between: Lying by commission — the active use of false statements e.g. "FAKE TIF"— and lying by omission — the passive act of misleading by failing to disclose relevant information.
I would argue that omission is NOT misleading because nobody is a clairvoyant and misunderstanding questions happens ALL the time. Even among learned Supreme Court justices.
Now, deliberately giving a false TIF number establishes mens rea.
Why not just talk to your bank so that they change your account to non-resident, and put your actual residency?
The answer that you give to this question might reveal the actual problem that you have
The answer that you give to this question might reveal the actual problem that you have
nope, you can obtain Codice Fiscale for free online (filling the form and sending it to your local Italian embassy) - they send back the "certificate" in couple of days
Do you have a guide for that? I only found L'Agenzia - Mini guida codice fiscale per stranieri - Agenzia delle Entrate
You can't use a phony NIF in Portugal, period. Any bank in Portugal checks its validity when you open an account. If you used N26/Revolut they will probably steal your money one day by asking tax returns from Portugal that you can't provide.
Why not just talk to your bank so that they change your account to non-resident, and put your actual residency?
The answer that you give to this question might reveal the actual problem that you have
Because Romania have no money, and they want to RAID all people with money, and i made all my money long time, i did not paid taxes (as programmers didn't had to) , i never reported anything, and i just kept moving my money, and now i don't want to someone from IRS to think i made in one year 100 000$ or 200 000$.
when i bought my stocks I did not expected some clows to think it's a smart idea to go backgwards 5-8 years and ask people who they made that money.
many people just saved those money,without thinking some clowns will react this day one day
Also I don't want to move my money into crypto again, and have the same problem for 7 more years if i will ever want to put them back
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Pretty common in various states.
If you really did not have to, you should be fine today. In any EU country, Romania included, nobody can take you accusable backwards. Well, unfortunately, it is possible that the money you have now can be taxed according to some newly introduced rule
And did you have to, or not? If not, see above. If yes, you made a mistake.
Well, what happened – simply happened. Nobody can revert it.
Yes, I can imagine well that it could happen – regardless of fact that it was not wise (just to save the money without any other measures).
A wise idea.
Perhaps a recommendation – such ways like using a fake TIN cannot really solve your situation and can cause you much bigger troubles. Try to contact a reasonable lawyer or a tax advisor to help you find a solution that will be less bad than any other (it depends a lot on local environment that I am not familiar with, so I can't recommend anything particular). It will probably cost you something – but it's, unfortunately, a reality.
Usually if a foreign guy goes/move to Portugal , and they will see your stock account growing, receving more money (from your bank account), will they try to tax the s**t out of you ,or ask any questions? Or they will just leave you alone, as you are a foreign guy anyway ?
It depends on how your tax residency will look like. If you do not become a tax resident (i.e. stay “a truly foreign guy”
) in Portugal and stay a tax resident in your former country/Romania (there are rules for this), Portugal authorities will not care – but keep in mind that the Romanian authorities will be informed about the balance at your account every year via CRS. If you become a tax resident in Portugal, I can't say – it depends how taxmen there look at ~70k, if it is worth bothering or not; I have no experience, maybe some another member has...It depends on how your tax residency will look like. If you do not become a tax resident (i.e. stay “a truly foreign guy”
I think that OP is more interested in hiding the money/not being investigated than in doing legal tax avoidance.
Yes, perhaps / I guess so, too
. Nevertheless, what I have posted above is valid for any case – IMO.
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