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france spain italy company formation options
- Thread starter EdwarDuica
- Start date
Lol, avoid Italy at all costs.... It's a burocracy/tax nightmare
What a bizarre selection. Are you hoping to pay as much tax as possible?
Ummm... Are you completely sure that you ABSOLUTELY need company registered in any of those jurisdictions? As other posters have mentioned, the selection is absolutely bizzarre in terms of bureaucracy and tax rates/administration.
On top of all, you can't technically incorporate company in any of those countries completely online. You'd have to engage local lawyer/law firm, prepare a power of attorney, make necessary certifications and translations etc.
hey,
I absolutely confirm the tax nightmare and do NOT advise you to incorporate in any of those jurisdictions.
Just a bit of context on the 2 jurisdictions I know thanks to direct experience:
As a matter of fact, just for being the director of a company in both Italy and Spain you are liable to pay Social Security, irrespectively of what you earn or declare.
In Italy you'd be liable to Gestione Separata INPS, with a minimal contribution of roughly 3.600 € a year.
In Spain that's RETA, with a whopping 4.413,60 € of minimal contribution, again, irrespectively of what you personally earn.
The only way to avoid such contributions would be for you to be an employee in another EU country. This is thanks to art. 11.1 of EU Regulation 883/2004, that basically says that you must pay social security only in one EU nation at any given time, provided that a "main nation" can be identified. So if you were a freelance or a director with a salary elsewhere, that would NOT save you. But being an employee would allow you to avoid the above mentioned charges.
(For example, the whole cost of incorporating a Ltd in Ireland and paying yourself a salary there would still be less, in administrative charges and expenses, than the simple social contribution in Spain)
In a nutshell, not advisable AT ALL.
Nevertheless, I'd like to correct @FinTech Avenger on his comment above: in Italy it is indeed possible to do everything online without ever showing your face in the State, at least for the first 5 years, provided you incorporate a "startup innovativa". More info here: Costituisci la tua SRL online | iubenda
After 5 years the Startup Innovativa must become a regular SRL, hence you are required to either liquidate it or go to Italy to take care of the paperwork or, in alternative, sign the power of attorney and prepare yourself to hefty expenses
Anyway, with a startup innovativa owned by a foreign partner and with a foreign director, forget about opening a bank account with a high street Italian bank.
Ciao!
I absolutely confirm the tax nightmare and do NOT advise you to incorporate in any of those jurisdictions.
Just a bit of context on the 2 jurisdictions I know thanks to direct experience:
As a matter of fact, just for being the director of a company in both Italy and Spain you are liable to pay Social Security, irrespectively of what you earn or declare.
In Italy you'd be liable to Gestione Separata INPS, with a minimal contribution of roughly 3.600 € a year.
In Spain that's RETA, with a whopping 4.413,60 € of minimal contribution, again, irrespectively of what you personally earn.
The only way to avoid such contributions would be for you to be an employee in another EU country. This is thanks to art. 11.1 of EU Regulation 883/2004, that basically says that you must pay social security only in one EU nation at any given time, provided that a "main nation" can be identified. So if you were a freelance or a director with a salary elsewhere, that would NOT save you. But being an employee would allow you to avoid the above mentioned charges.
(For example, the whole cost of incorporating a Ltd in Ireland and paying yourself a salary there would still be less, in administrative charges and expenses, than the simple social contribution in Spain)
In a nutshell, not advisable AT ALL.
Nevertheless, I'd like to correct @FinTech Avenger on his comment above: in Italy it is indeed possible to do everything online without ever showing your face in the State, at least for the first 5 years, provided you incorporate a "startup innovativa". More info here: Costituisci la tua SRL online | iubenda
After 5 years the Startup Innovativa must become a regular SRL, hence you are required to either liquidate it or go to Italy to take care of the paperwork or, in alternative, sign the power of attorney and prepare yourself to hefty expenses
Anyway, with a startup innovativa owned by a foreign partner and with a foreign director, forget about opening a bank account with a high street Italian bank.
Ciao!
I cannot emphasise enough that the Internet is rife with Italians warning ppl not to open ventures in Italy, and to choose somewhere else in the EU or beyond instead. Probe just a foot deep into the places where Italians congregate and you feel the immediate chill of their admonitions. And these are native Italians, with family, with friends, with support systems. Imagine coming as a foreigner without any of that.
Sure enough, all of the above is true if you want to keep things transparent and legit.
If you find a nominee and decide to open a company on his name, then another, then another, in an infinite loop, authorities are reasonably slow to catch you and you may get away in an easy way.
Anyone can share an opinion about France?
If you find a nominee and decide to open a company on his name, then another, then another, in an infinite loop, authorities are reasonably slow to catch you and you may get away in an easy way.
Anyone can share an opinion about France?
Spain is a nightmare. Do not even dream of doing it.
I wonder how you can even invent all this bs they want and require you to pay for. You pay tax over tax over tax besides you have even everything setup. It is even worth to jump ship even midway.
I wonder how you can even invent all this bs they want and require you to pay for. You pay tax over tax over tax besides you have even everything setup. It is even worth to jump ship even midway.
For Aliexpress selling you must incorporate in a few list of (expensive)countries, think about @pippo says, but if you have volume (also check the accounting cost) you could setup the Cyprus company who owns the (IT, FR, ES company**) and move the benefits to Cy with less taxation (check parent company and subsidiaries: Taxes on parent companies and subsidiaries).
** not sure Turkey is a good idea due political situation and if you plan fulfill from inside to avoid border issues, for dropshipping don't know
Anyway I hope this help.
** not sure Turkey is a good idea due political situation and if you plan fulfill from inside to avoid border issues, for dropshipping don't know
Anyway I hope this help.
Incorporating in France isn't so bad - probably middle of the road in terms of tax efficiency. France also practices territorial taxation, so there may be some options to have foreign income tax-free. But for this you will need an accountant who knows better who such things work in reality. The closest France has to an LLC is something called a SAS - you can see this government site (in English!) that gives you the run down - My company in France: A step-by-step guide to start a business in France
As I understand the main problem with France is when you want to leave.
Always have an exit strategy, you never know what they are going to pull next.
Hi pippo, you seem pretty knowledgeable about Spain, do you know if it's possible to have a US LLC while residing in Spain and saving on the RETA but declaring income in the IRPF? This would be my temporary strategy until I can move to a different jurisdiction but I have heard contradictory information on the legality of this.hey,
I absolutely confirm the tax nightmare and do NOT advise you to incorporate in any of those jurisdictions.
Just a bit of context on the 2 jurisdictions I know thanks to direct experience:
As a matter of fact, just for being the director of a company in both Italy and Spain you are liable to pay Social Security, irrespectively of what you earn or declare.
In Italy you'd be liable to Gestione Separata INPS, with a minimal contribution of roughly 3.600 € a year.
In Spain that's RETA, with a whopping 4.413,60 € of minimal contribution, again, irrespectively of what you personally earn.
The only way to avoid such contributions would be for you to be an employee in another EU country. This is thanks to art. 11.1 of EU Regulation 883/2004, that basically says that you must pay social security only in one EU nation at any given time, provided that a "main nation" can be identified. So if you were a freelance or a director with a salary elsewhere, that would NOT save you. But being an employee would allow you to avoid the above mentioned charges.
(For example, the whole cost of incorporating a Ltd in Ireland and paying yourself a salary there would still be less, in administrative charges and expenses, than the simple social contribution in Spain)
In a nutshell, not advisable AT ALL.
Nevertheless, I'd like to correct @FinTech Avenger on his comment above: in Italy it is indeed possible to do everything online without ever showing your face in the State, at least for the first 5 years, provided you incorporate a "startup innovativa". More info here: Costituisci la tua SRL online | iubenda
After 5 years the Startup Innovativa must become a regular SRL, hence you are required to either liquidate it or go to Italy to take care of the paperwork or, in alternative, sign the power of attorney and prepare yourself to hefty expenses
Anyway, with a startup innovativa owned by a foreign partner and with a foreign director, forget about opening a bank account with a high street Italian bank.
Ciao!
I can give feedback about France.
You can open a company without moving from your seat
but you'll need a bank account, and it will be far more difficult to open a bank account if you're not resident
regarding taxes there are ways to lower them but you still will have to pay taxes on benefits (from 15 to 30% + social contributions for 17,20% !)
and finally you'll need an accountant (at least 1500 euros / year).
You can open a company without moving from your seat
but you'll need a bank account, and it will be far more difficult to open a bank account if you're not resident
regarding taxes there are ways to lower them but you still will have to pay taxes on benefits (from 15 to 30% + social contributions for 17,20% !)
and finally you'll need an accountant (at least 1500 euros / year).
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