Getting 20% APY on Stable Coin?

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Silvio

Entrepreneur
I see all these exchanges and services like Swissborg and others offering pretty high % on deposits in stable coins and even higher on non-stable ones:

Why would anybody pay you 9% interest on your stable coins?
What's the worst case scenario here- the coin suddenly becoming non-stable and crashing (if the "reserves" turn out to be fake a la Tether?) the exchange itself going bankrupt- 100% loss of the entire capital?

I'm seeing even higher % being offered on shadier coins...
 

PaulKruger

Specialist in anonymizing my own business!
BANNED MEMBER
similar thread found before never got answered. Let's hope you have better luck with it.
 

4br

Active Member
@maxmmm - I have been lending out crypto on exchanges and now DeFi since 2015. I have never lost any money, though I have lost some money to crypto losses, but it's negligible. Don't use odd sites and spread your load. With that said, it's always possible something big will go under one day.

You can get better yields on USD than 20%. In the bull market I got 25% / year and I'm not sure in the bear. I think it was 6-12%.

Sunny is offering 34% on USD-USD, but I think some of that is paid in SUNNY, which you can convert to USD - Sunny Aggregator

Similar for Saber, but lower yields - Saber: Solana AMM

These are on Solana.

To get on them, you will need to do something like:

1) buy Solana on FTX.com
2) transfer Solana to your Solana wallet
3) pool on those sites

For a wallet I would recommend the SafePal hardware wallet or the Phantom web wallet. Not all Solana sites support SafePal at the moment.

Beefy has up to 37% (on Binance Smart Chain) - Beefy Finance

To overview the risk of these:

1) you have the risk of the underlying smart contract platform e.g. Solana, ETH
2) you have the risk of the stablecoin provider having issues, e.g. Tether, Circle
3) you have the risk of the decentralised exchange, e.g Pancakeswap
[4) if you are using yield farming, e.g. SolFarm, then you also have that risk]

The extent of major problems in this space has been close to zero. There have been low-level scams. The biggest issue was on one called AutoFarm, on which I lost 3% of affected assets.

---------------------

Then you have the centralised platforms, such as Youhodlr, Nexo and Crypto.com. They all offer about 12%. This is offered on the back of those platforms lending out your crypto. You might get better rates on Bitfinex, but the rate is not fixed. They do that by:

1) loanee deposits crypto on the platform as collateral
2) they get crypto to do whatever they want with
3) if the collateral comes to be worth ~= as the loan, then it is closed and the creditor gets the funds

That I am aware of there were two issues with this model:

1) Bitfinex was hacked (2015 or 2016) and it's clients had to take a haircute, which was paid back in about six months. So no long lost nothing in 1:1 asset terms. They just lost the ability to mobilise those assets.
2) There was a small outfit called Cred that went under. I think their lenders lost everything.

My advice is to use multiple platforms. Nexo, Crypto.com and Blockfi are probably some of the most trustworthy.

------------------------

But the simple play with crypto is:

DCA in every month. $10 every month from Jan 2013 is now over $100,00. Unless you want to time the 4-year bull-bear cycle, just forget about it.

But right now I think we are starting the ascent to the next peak, followed by a large crash. That will go on for about a year. Then you want to move in with a certain % of your net worth. If things continue as they have been a small percentage will end up being > 50%.

You can look at lending of those assets. For example I bought lots of ETH in March 2020 for $120. I lent it out continuously today, for what has been about 8% PA. Just what I have earned on interest is probably 300% of what I put in initally.

Bitcoin is mature, but from the next crash there will likely be good gains to be had in Solana and solid projects like MANA, ENJ, BAT and others.

Just buy in when it its crippling lows after about one year of bear market. Even if it's 0.1% of your net worth. The cartel may be able to knock crypto, but they can't take it from you. And so far the only thing that has made people use crypto more than if it becomes legal tender is if the government bans it.

The next decades will be a battle between decentralisation and centralisation, in all spheres - governance, health, finance, food, media...
 

JackAlabama

Entrepreneur
I see all these exchanges and services like Swissborg and others offering pretty high % on deposits in stable coins and even higher on non-stable ones:

Why would anybody pay you 9% interest on your stable coins?
What's the worst case scenario here- the coin suddenly becoming non-stable and crashing (if the "reserves" turn out to be fake a la Tether?) the exchange itself going bankrupt- 100% loss of the entire capital?

I'm seeing even higher % being offered on shadier coins...
They pay this (pretty low yield) this as there is huge demand for borrowing and leverage gambling.
A more or less natural interest rate would be around 6%, the 0% we see on offer by the cartel is a big manipulation down.
I also get around 20% yield on stables but there is some platform risk involved, similar to banks which are also facing huge platform risks. So far, I did not experience a loss in a 1+ years of doing lending and defi.
 

Tr0nad0r

Active Member
10% seems to be pretty standard for stablecoins in centralized sites like Celsius, BlockFi, Nexo, etc.

As you said there might be risks related to regulations, especially with Tether but I see less risk with other stablecoins that intend to follow regulations and be 100% cash-backed like USDC, GUSD, BUSD, and USDP.
 

Nicholas Van Orton

Entrepreneur
@JackAlabama @4br - thanks for your contributions...could you please explain the cash-in (deposit) and cash-out process (withdrawal to fiat) and what would your suggested counterparts/platforms of choice be? Trying to know the space better, way too much in the newbie's mentality at the moment.

Thanks in advance.

NVO
 

Martin Everson

Offshore Retiree
Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
Why would anybody pay you 9% interest on your stable coins?

What only a mere 9%? eek¤%&

Titan LP token was offering 1 billion percent APR conf/(%.

Yeah just follow your instinct and avoid. I was looking too at 16% wirexapp X-Accounts offering 16%. Think I mentioned in another thread but then just ditched the idea.
 

BigUnicorn

New member
@maxmmm - I have been lending out crypto on exchanges and now DeFi since 2015. I have never lost any money, though I have lost some money to crypto losses, but it's negligible. Don't use odd sites and spread your load. With that said, it's always possible something big will go under one day.

...

The next decades will be a battle between decentralisation and centralisation, in all spheres - governance, health, finance, food, media...

From a person involved deeply in crypto as well here since many years: brother you know your stuff.
 

Silvio

Entrepreneur
What only a mere 9%? eek¤%&

Titan LP token was offering 1 billion percent APR conf/(%.

Yeah just follow your instinct and avoid. I was looking too at 16% wirexapp X-Accounts offering 16%. Think I mentioned in another thread but then just ditched the idea.
Yeah that was my first instinct but I thought maybe I've been too close-minded about crypto and just hating for no reason (or maybe the fact that I am even talking about this, suggest that we've reached this cycle's top)

I just don't get why would anybody pay me 15% for depositing stable coins. Especially big pseudo-licensed operations... they could just get financing at 5% from a real bank, if they are indeed real and solid.
 

4br

Active Member
@maxmmm - I think Bitfinex were the first to offer this since 2013-14. They could have took the cream from the financing themselves, like banks. But I think they offered it to their clients as something to reel people in.

We'd have to know what's going on on each platform, which we don't. But all of the yield lenders get should be provided via the interest of borrowers. In the case of Bitfinex, they make a 15% fee on the yields.

Since Bitfinex it has grown and been played around with. In legacy finance, the bank gets to make the cream of margin gamblers, but in crypto, it's anyone who wants in. In the case of DeFi, the fees to the platform can be negligible, maybe 1%.

And in the case of DeFi, the flows can be followed, so researchers can vet the integrity of the platform. Any good platform has been audited.

@JackAlabama @4br - thanks for your contributions...could you please explain the cash-in (deposit) and cash-out process (withdrawal to fiat) and what would your suggested counterparts/platforms of choice be? Trying to know the space better, way too much in the newbie's mentality at the moment.

Thanks in advance.

NVO

I deposited a lot into Crypto.com, by card. At the time there was no card deposit fee. Now it's 3%. Or you can make bank deposits for 0%. You will need to do KYC, like any of financial platform, but Crypto.com is light. I also like FTX for fiat deposits. No KYC questions yet and I am in $xxx,xxx in deposits.

I have never cashed out anything from crypto. I've only heard of people who have and it hasn't seemed to be an issue for them. You can also find a contact to sell for from LocalBitcoins.

I think the best centralised platforms are in this order (in terms of trustworthiness):

Blockfi / Gemini
Crypto.com
Nexo
Binance
Celsius
Youhodler

Of the DeFi platforms, I can't say as I haven't looked into it as much.

But I would spread between multiple, to mitigate the risk. When this crypto bubble pops I will be moving everything to stabled coins and loaning them out. That is so long as the dollar is worthwhile at ~12% PA.

There is also a gold-back token called PAX Gold. The company that manages it is solid; and you can get 8.2% PA on PAX Gold on Youholder. Other platforms have lower rates.
 

legrant

Active Member
@maxmmm - I think Bitfinex were the first to offer this since 2013-14. They could have took the cream from the financing themselves, like banks. But I think they offered it to their clients as something to reel people in.

We'd have to know what's going on on each platform, which we don't. But all of the yield lenders get should be provided via the interest of borrowers. In the case of Bitfinex, they make a 15% fee on the yields.

Since Bitfinex it has grown and been played around with. In legacy finance, the bank gets to make the cream of margin gamblers, but in crypto, it's anyone who wants in. In the case of DeFi, the fees to the platform can be negligible, maybe 1%.

And in the case of DeFi, the flows can be followed, so researchers can vet the integrity of the platform. Any good platform has been audited.



I deposited a lot into Crypto.com, by card. At the time there was no card deposit fee. Now it's 3%. Or you can make bank deposits for 0%. You will need to do KYC, like any of financial platform, but Crypto.com is light. I also like FTX for fiat deposits. No KYC questions yet and I am in $xxx,xxx in deposits.

I have never cashed out anything from crypto. I've only heard of people who have and it hasn't seemed to be an issue for them. You can also find a contact to sell for from LocalBitcoins.

I think the best centralised platforms are in this order (in terms of trustworthiness):

Blockfi / Gemini
Crypto.com
Nexo
Binance
Celsius
Youhodler

Of the DeFi platforms, I can't say as I haven't looked into it as much.

But I would spread between multiple, to mitigate the risk. When this crypto bubble pops I will be moving everything to stabled coins and loaning them out. That is so long as the dollar is worthwhile at ~12% PA.

There is also a gold-back token called PAX Gold. The company that manages it is solid; and you can get 8.2% PA on PAX Gold on Youholder. Other platforms have lower rates.

Any specific reason you'd trust BlockFi or Crypto.com more than Celsius and Binance?
 

Nicholas Van Orton

Entrepreneur
@maxmmm - I think Bitfinex were the first to offer this since 2013-14. They could have took the cream from the financing themselves, like banks. But I think they offered it to their clients as something to reel people in.

We'd have to know what's going on on each platform, which we don't. But all of the yield lenders get should be provided via the interest of borrowers. In the case of Bitfinex, they make a 15% fee on the yields.

Since Bitfinex it has grown and been played around with. In legacy finance, the bank gets to make the cream of margin gamblers, but in crypto, it's anyone who wants in. In the case of DeFi, the fees to the platform can be negligible, maybe 1%.

And in the case of DeFi, the flows can be followed, so researchers can vet the integrity of the platform. Any good platform has been audited.



I deposited a lot into Crypto.com, by card. At the time there was no card deposit fee. Now it's 3%. Or you can make bank deposits for 0%. You will need to do KYC, like any of financial platform, but Crypto.com is light. I also like FTX for fiat deposits. No KYC questions yet and I am in $xxx,xxx in deposits.

I have never cashed out anything from crypto. I've only heard of people who have and it hasn't seemed to be an issue for them. You can also find a contact to sell for from LocalBitcoins.

I think the best centralised platforms are in this order (in terms of trustworthiness):

Blockfi / Gemini
Crypto.com
Nexo
Binance
Celsius
Youhodler

Of the DeFi platforms, I can't say as I haven't looked into it as much.

But I would spread between multiple, to mitigate the risk. When this crypto bubble pops I will be moving everything to stabled coins and loaning them out. That is so long as the dollar is worthwhile at ~12% PA.

There is also a gold-back token called PAX Gold. The company that manages it is solid; and you can get 8.2% PA on PAX Gold on Youholder. Other platforms have lower rates.
@4br - thank you for your detailed response, truly appreciated. I'd like to follow up, if I may, with the noob question of how o get back to fiat once you decide to liquidate your positions, say from the Nexo platform. Do you send it back to crypto.com or FTX and once the crypto is in them convert to fiat or what? Again, this coming from someone starting to look into this, apologies if it may sound dumb to many around here.

NVO
 

fasu

New member
@4br - thank you for your detailed response, truly appreciated. I'd like to follow up, if I may, with the noob question of how o get back to fiat once you decide to liquidate your positions, say from the Nexo platform. Do you send it back to crypto.com or FTX and once the crypto is in them convert to fiat or what? Again, this coming from someone starting to look into this, apologies if it may sound dumb to many around here.

NVO

You can withdraw FIAT directly via SEPA on some platforms like nexo, youhodler, whitebit, etc.
Kraken also give you some yield on EUR and USD, but lower.
 

Martin Everson

Offshore Retiree
Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
Yeah that was my first instinct but I thought maybe I've been too close-minded about crypto and just hating for no reason (or maybe the fact that I am even talking about this, suggest that we've reached this cycle's top)

Thats fomo and greed fighting your natural instinct. I don't think we are anywhere near the top as the supply of idiots is simply infinite. Proof of this is with every new sh1tcoin that comes out whether squid coin etc there is an endless supply of idiots to buy into these scams. Look at marketcap of dogecoin or Shiba Inu ffs...lol :rolleyes:

I just don't get why would anybody pay me 15% for depositing stable coins. Especially big pseudo-licensed operations... they could just get financing at 5% from a real bank, if they are indeed real and solid.

Average idiot on street thinks bank is only paying me 1% so why don't take all my money out and put into this and get 15%. Bottom line is it keeps the bubble going and draws in new suckers. Bubbles are like blackholes they draw in everthing including credible companies like VISA etc.
 

4br

Active Member
Any specific reason you'd trust BlockFi or Crypto.com more than Celsius and Binance?

BlockFi is the most transparent. Unless something has changed, BlockFi holds its assets with Gemini, which has insured its hot wallets (wallts from which withdrawals and deposits are made). - https://help.blockfi.com/hc/en-us/a...re-the-risks-of-holding-my-crypto-at-BlockFi-

Crypto.com has about $700M in insurance, which probably covers their hotwallets, but I imagine they have $50B+ under management.

@4br - thank you for your detailed response, truly appreciated. I'd like to follow up, if I may, with the noob question of how o get back to fiat once you decide to liquidate your positions, say from the Nexo platform. Do you send it back to crypto.com or FTX and once the crypto is in them convert to fiat or what? Again, this coming from someone starting to look into this, apologies if it may sound dumb to many around here.

NVO

Are you talking about funds held in DeFi? If so, there are a few options:

1) deposit to an exchange with fiat withdrawals, say Binance, and withdraw to your bank - your fee will probably be negligible (at least it is on FTX)
2) use a Bitcoin ATM - Bitcoin ATM Map – Find Bitcoin ATM, Online Rates - your fee will be about 5%
3) find a contact to sell to on LocalBitcoins or Paxful - you will probably get 3-5% over spot

You could also look at banks that accept crypto deposits. That I know of there is DukasCopy in Switzerland. I think AdvCash also does this and maybe Revolut, Bitwala/Nuri. I don't know if PayPal is taking deposits.

With Nexo, you just do a bank withdrawal.

As noted, I have never withdrawn. I've only heard of other people who have, one who bought a $2M apartment with his crypto money in UAE. So it is obviously possible.

I have only cashed out via card. I have 3-4 crypto debits cards. The best is the Crypto.com card, which has ~0% FX and foreign ATM fees. I don't think there would be much issue with using that with large sums, like $5-10K / month. I have used it in Russia, Ukraine, Moldova and Belarus. No issues.
 

BertyW

New member
@maxmmm - I have been lending out crypto on exchanges and now DeFi since 2015. I have never lost any money, though I have lost some money to crypto losses, but it's negligible. Don't use odd sites and spread your load. With that said, it's always possible something big will go under one day.

You can get better yields on USD than 20%. In the bull market I got 25% / year and I'm not sure in the bear. I think it was 6-12%.

Sunny is offering 34% on USD-USD, but I think some of that is paid in SUNNY, which you can convert to USD - Sunny Aggregator

Similar for Saber, but lower yields - Saber: Solana AMM

These are on Solana.

To get on them, you will need to do something like:

1) buy Solana on FTX.com
2) transfer Solana to your Solana wallet
3) pool on those sites

For a wallet I would recommend the SafePal hardware wallet or the Phantom web wallet. Not all Solana sites support SafePal at the moment.

Beefy has up to 37% (on Binance Smart Chain) - Beefy Finance

To overview the risk of these:

1) you have the risk of the underlying smart contract platform e.g. Solana, ETH
2) you have the risk of the stablecoin provider having issues, e.g. Tether, Circle
3) you have the risk of the decentralised exchange, e.g Pancakeswap
[4) if you are using yield farming, e.g. SolFarm, then you also have that risk]

The extent of major problems in this space has been close to zero. There have been low-level scams. The biggest issue was on one called AutoFarm, on which I lost 3% of affected assets.

---------------------

Then you have the centralised platforms, such as Youhodlr, Nexo and Crypto.com. They all offer about 12%. This is offered on the back of those platforms lending out your crypto. You might get better rates on Bitfinex, but the rate is not fixed. They do that by:

1) loanee deposits crypto on the platform as collateral
2) they get crypto to do whatever they want with
3) if the collateral comes to be worth ~= as the loan, then it is closed and the creditor gets the funds

That I am aware of there were two issues with this model:

1) Bitfinex was hacked (2015 or 2016) and it's clients had to take a haircute, which was paid back in about six months. So no long lost nothing in 1:1 asset terms. They just lost the ability to mobilise those assets.
2) There was a small outfit called Cred that went under. I think their lenders lost everything.

My advice is to use multiple platforms. Nexo, Crypto.com and Blockfi are probably some of the most trustworthy.

------------------------

But the simple play with crypto is:

DCA in every month. $10 every month from Jan 2013 is now over $100,00. Unless you want to time the 4-year bull-bear cycle, just forget about it.

But right now I think we are starting the ascent to the next peak, followed by a large crash. That will go on for about a year. Then you want to move in with a certain % of your net worth. If things continue as they have been a small percentage will end up being > 50%.

You can look at lending of those assets. For example I bought lots of ETH in March 2020 for $120. I lent it out continuously today, for what has been about 8% PA. Just what I have earned on interest is probably 300% of what I put in initally.

Bitcoin is mature, but from the next crash there will likely be good gains to be had in Solana and solid projects like MANA, ENJ, BAT and others.

Just buy in when it its crippling lows after about one year of bear market. Even if it's 0.1% of your net worth. The cartel may be able to knock crypto, but they can't take it from you. And so far the only thing that has made people use crypto more than if it becomes legal tender is if the government bans it.

The next decades will be a battle between decentralisation and centralisation, in all spheres - governance, health, finance, food, media...

Absolutely excellent post, many thanks
 

mleong

New member
BlockFi is the most transparent. Unless something has changed, BlockFi holds its assets with Gemini, which has insured its hot wallets (wallts from which withdrawals and deposits are made). - https://help.blockfi.com/hc/en-us/a...re-the-risks-of-holding-my-crypto-at-BlockFi-

Crypto.com has about $700M in insurance, which probably covers their hotwallets, but I imagine they have $50B+ under management.



Are you talking about funds held in DeFi? If so, there are a few options:

1) deposit to an exchange with fiat withdrawals, say Binance, and withdraw to your bank - your fee will probably be negligible (at least it is on FTX)
2) use a Bitcoin ATM - Bitcoin ATM Map – Find Bitcoin ATM, Online Rates - your fee will be about 5%
3) find a contact to sell to on LocalBitcoins or Paxful - you will probably get 3-5% over spot

You could also look at banks that accept crypto deposits. That I know of there is DukasCopy in Switzerland. I think AdvCash also does this and maybe Revolut, Bitwala/Nuri. I don't know if PayPal is taking deposits.

With Nexo, you just do a bank withdrawal.

As noted, I have never withdrawn. I've only heard of other people who have, one who bought a $2M apartment with his crypto money in UAE. So it is obviously possible.

I have only cashed out via card. I have 3-4 crypto debits cards. The best is the Crypto.com card, which has ~0% FX and foreign ATM fees. I don't think there would be much issue with using that with large sums, like $5-10K / month. I have used it in Russia, Ukraine, Moldova and Belarus. No issues.
Hi 4BR, thank you for sharing some great insights.

with regards to BlockFi, this is only available to US citizens/residents right? since the KYC for the account opening and card requires social security no....
 

4br

Active Member
Hi 4BR, thank you for sharing some great insights.

with regards to BlockFi, this is only available to US citizens/residents right? since the KYC for the account opening and card requires social security no....

I've not used it, as their rates are not so good, and require locking for longer periods to get better rates.

But according they accept clients from around the world:

 

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