Hidden Tax Haven of German forests.

[NewHorizonsParaguay]

https://www.europeanpressprize.com/...-forest-the-most-absurd-tax-haven-in-germany/

 

[SCHLOSSFINANZ]

its just lefist media story, in practice is not working and saves you only 3-4% tax so...

 

[Ilias]

Just the usual leftist/communist media circus frothing at the mouth over something, this time Count Gregor von Bismarck running a “tax haven” out of a wooden hunting hut in the Sachsenwald.

They want you to believe it’s some sinister loophole, some betrayal of “democratic norms.” But what they’re really angry about is much simpler: someone found a legal, efficient, and entirely rational way to retain value (well, save at least a few %) in a country designed to punish wealth creation.

The real scandal is that this isn’t a scandal. The entire arrangement , the estate district, the low trade tax rate, the Count’s legal authority to appoint the district manager , all of it is codified. The laws were written before modern Germany even existed, and they remain on the books because no bureaucrat bothered to kill the privilege. That’s not corruption. That’s inertia. And inertia is exploitable.

You know what’s truly absurd? That entrepreneurs are still trying to build companies under Germany’s crushing trade tax burden , average rate 407%, Hamburg 470% (it is Hebesatz so calculated very strangely, like 250% = 8.75%, but still) , and somehow expect to be globally competitive. Bismarck did NOT create any tax haven. He simply didn’t volunteer to get fleeced. And instead of taking a salary from a bloated government department or an EU climate subsidy racket, he built a holding structure that gives him cash flow and control.

But this is a just a decoy play! Germany is already a fiscal prison. Let’s be honest: whether you pay 275% or 470% trade tax, you’re still in a terminally ill system.

1. 42-45% personal income tax for most decent earners
2. 18.6% pension contributions, 2.4% unemployment contributions, 14.6% health contributions, 3.05% long-term care contributions (all just taxes with a prettier name)
3. 15.825% corporate tax + 3.5% base trade tax + this messed up local Hebesatz
4. VAT at 19%
5. Inheritance tax nightmares
6. Exit tax if you dare move away

So go ahead , save €70K on trade tax by registering in the woods. Then watch the Finanzamt bleed you dry anyway. This entire spectacle is the equivalent of arguing over cabin placement after the torpedo has hit. Germany isn’t just high-tax , it’s anti-capital. Every successful entrepreneur is seen as a piggy bank to be cracked open. Every efficiency is framed as abuse. The media’s job is to inflame resentment against anyone not on the state payroll.

The journalists screaming “Scam” are just failed rent-seekers. This story wasn’t broken by investigative watchdogs serving truth , it was dragged out by taxpayer-funded timewasters angry that someone, somewhere, isn’t kneeling before the bureaucratic altar. They’re palace scribes, defending a system that feeds them (with other people's assets they have no right to). They add zero value to the economy. Bismarck, on the other hand, maintains a forestry business, engages in financial markets, manages real assets, and employs people.

 

[Alonzo]

1. 42-45% personal income tax for most decent earners
2. 18.6% pension contributions, 2.4% unemployment contributions, 14.6% health contributions, 3.05% long-term care contributions (all just taxes with a prettier name)
3. 15.825% corporate tax + 3.5% base trade tax + this messed up local Hebesatz
4. VAT at 19%
5. Inheritance tax nightmares
6. Exit tax if you dare move away

1. Define decent earners (self employed)
2. Yeah that sucks but there is a cap
3. Corporate tax in DE is too damn high indeed
4. Not bad compared to the rest of Europe
5. Inheritance tax brackets are wiiiiide though… €1m to ur kid is 7.5% effectively (UK takes 27% at £1m and France 21.4%) and €10m is 19.3% effectively. It’s not that bad of a nightmare
6. It’s harsh (for >1% stake holders)

 

[marioIT]

Idk some people get used to the system and they end up being trapped in their comfort zone (aka hell).
Any German I know that had a business there is still receiving angry letters from Finanzamt, even after moving abroad.
Those letters are raw unfiltered psychological terror. I've seen friends with PTSD and flashbacks just by hearing there's a letter from Finanzamt...
Best thing is when you're abroad for years, enjoying life, and they're asking you to bring them some papers from like 7 years ago, that they already have, but you cannot email it because "the procedure" doesn't allow it, and it's allowed only in person, and they give you the ultimatum: "15 days else..."!
that's the best case obviously, good luck if you get audited!
The only difference I hear compared to other EU countries is that you can get out clean after long audits (years)! Other EU countries will always find something to fine and get more money...
Also notaries...
Taxes are just half of the issue: it's a nightmare and those journalists don't even know what they're talking about.

 

[Ilias]

1. Define decent earners (self employed)
2. Yeah that sucks but there is a cap
3. Corporate tax in DE is too damn high indeed
4. Not bad compared to the rest of Europe
5. Inheritance tax brackets are wiiiiide though… €1m to ur kid is 7.5% effectively (UK takes 27% at £1m and France 21.4%) and €10m is 19.3% effectively. It’s not that bad of a nightmare
6. It’s harsh (for >1% stake holders)

1. Define decent earners (self-employed)
Let’s be blunt: anyone grossing €68K+ as a solo self-employed professional OR employee , which is not exceptional especially for our target audience here , is already reaching 42% in the 2025 tax year (and even numbers a bit under that are achieving the 40% range). Add compulsory insurance contributions and you’re easily losing 50%+ of every marginal euro. And God help you if you hit €277K , that’s 45% income tax plus everything else. So yes, “decent earner” includes a lot more people than the media likes to admit.

2. Yeah that sucks but there is a cap
Sure, but only for employee contributions , not for the self-employed, where the state bleeds you dry on both sides of the equation. You pay both the employer and employee shares of those social contributions. So unless you’re running a GmbH and gaming optimal dividend/salary mixes (which, by the way, gets nuked once you want to reinvest or hire), you’re still in the grinder.

3. Corporate tax in DE is too damn high indeed
Exactly. And it’s not just the headline rates , it’s the compliance burden, the limitless bureaucracy, and the uncertainty that kills businesses. One cost is paying the tax and another is filling the tens of forms and answering their questions. Try getting a clear answer from Finanzamt on how X is taxed, how you should report Y. You won’t. They’ll “interpret” it retroactively and you’ll pay the price.

4. Not bad compared to the rest of Europe
That’s like saying lung cancer is better than pancreatic cancer. Theft is theft. Look at the global picture. Territorial tax regimes (Singapore, Uruguay, etc.), 0% cap gains (Caymans, Bahamas), no inheritance tax (Georgia and lots of places). Europe is nothing more than a legacy tax trap (and generally an area not safe for your mental and physical health), not a model to aspire to.

5. Inheritance tax brackets are wiiiiide though…
Yeah, until they’re not. Try passing illiquid business assets or real estate at high value to your heirs without triggering forced sales. €1M might be enough for some ETF portfolio, but for generational entrepreneurs or family businesses it’s a death sentence by installment. Germany incentivizes liquidation, not continuity.

6. It’s harsh (for >1% stake holders)
Exactly , which is who this conversation is about. This forum is full of one-percenters who are tired of acting as state cash cows! The exit tax is pure serfdom: leave the country with your own shares and the state pretends you "sold" them, then demands payment on phantom income. It’s not policy, it’s a hostage clause.

 

[Alonzo]

Let’s be blunt: anyone grossing €68K+ as a solo self-employed professional OR employee , which is not exceptional especially for our target audience here , is already reaching 42% in the 2025 tax year (and even numbers a bit under that are achieving the 40% range). Add compulsory insurance contributions and you’re easily losing 50%+ of every marginal euro.

The biggest problem is social security contributions. If your gross income is €70k you’ll end up paying almost half to the state largely because of SS.

The geometrically progressive rate doesn’t work the way you think

Sure, but only for employee contributions , not for the self-employed, where the state bleeds you dry on both sides of the equation. You pay both the employer and employee shares of those social contributions. So unless you’re running a GmbH and gaming optimal dividend/salary mixes (which, by the way, gets nuked once you want to reinvest or hire), you’re still in the grinder.

There is definitely a cap for self employed if they voluntarily opt for it and I’m curious to know where u found that info. 39% SS and no cap? lol

That’s like saying lung cancer is better than pancreatic cancer. Theft is theft. Look at the global picture. Territorial tax regimes (Singapore, Uruguay, etc.), 0% cap gains (Caymans, Bahamas), no inheritance tax (Georgia and lots of places).

At point 4 You only said "19% VAT"… so in response I told you that it is not bad compared to the rest of Europe. Only Luxembourg and Switzerland are lower (Ignore microstates). Why are you suddenly talking about other taxes? Singapore? Uruguay ? Caribbean? Why are you out of the topic of my response?

 

[Mister M]

Let’s be blunt: anyone grossing €68K+ as a solo self-employed professional OR employee , which is not exceptional especially for our target audience here , is already reaching 42% in the 2025 tax year (and even numbers a bit under that are achieving the 40% range). Add compulsory insurance contributions and you’re easily losing 50%+ of every marginal euro.

Happy to hate the german system with you, but thats just not true. The income taxes grow progressively, with a tax allowance of around 10k€.
With the 68k€ income you mentioned, you would pay around 17.648,00 Euro or 25,95 % in income taxes. Every Euro after that would be taxed with 42%. Thats why there are specific recommendations by tax lawyers for the best income if you are the director of a german company. The other money is held in a holding structure. Yes, there are many more things to come, for example the "Kirchensteuer" if you are religious or all the other bulls**t you mentioned, but its not THAT bad.

https://www.bmf-steuerrechner.de/ekst/eingabeformekst.xhtml

1. 42-45% personal income tax for most decent earners
2. 18.6% pension contributions, 2.4% unemployment contributions, 14.6% health contributions, 3.05% long-term care contributions (all just taxes with a prettier name)
3. 15.825% corporate tax + 3.5% base trade tax + this messed up local Hebesatz
4. VAT at 19%
5. Inheritance tax nightmares
6. Exit tax if you dare move away

7. Incredibly slow, bureaucracy nightmare, and dare you are filling out something wrong. Far behind other countries when it comes to digitalization too.

 

[KJK]

The story is absurd and the setup is even more absurd. However, the history behind it is interesting - not dissimilar to how Liechtenstein and Luxembourg statute were formed centuries ago.

I'm not German but my advice to any German considering this would be - move outside of Germany and preferable outside of the EU as well if you're thinking long term.

 

[jayM]

What do you think things will look like now with the new government in charge of Germany, promising lower taxes, tighter border controls, and a stronger economy for the average German, do you think there’s any substance to it?