How Secure is Switzerland When it Comes to Protecting Wealth and Assets?

[JackAlabama]

Not interested for religious war. Though, interested for quality discussion. This is a restricted part of the forum, so a bit more transparency is possible.

As @jafo say, a friend of mine and his frends are using described structure, both with a foundation from Liechenstein and Switzerland.

What Proton's UBOs did

Post in thread 'Proton VPN for privacy, read this and let's discuss!'
Proton VPN for privacy, read this and let's discuss!

was to structure a control vehicle mimicking the bearer shares they had in mentioned, now defunct entities. We live in imperfect world - so it's a legitimate course of action.



Why would it be? It's a legal entity while a trust isn't as it's a fiduciry relationship.

Family wealth management thru foundation is legitimate.





Foundation may be a shareholder in holding company that can control operating companies in different jurisdictions. It would be utterly more safe then structuring trusts in usual jurisdictions. They may. The question is - will they. Let's assume that the income from Global North countries is perfectly legal. The income from less regulated entities and jurisdictions or sanctioned jurisdictions should be channeled thru ephemeral SPVs. Transfering profits from Russian, Venezuelan or other perky countries thru businesses in Turkey, Mongolia, China isn't possible? It may be expensive due to applied tax model. But, it's a cost of doing business. And, it's legal.



I agree with majority of your statements but not conclusions.

It is my belief that OCT participants with MGG membership are quite different then average people and capable to create and manage the wealth with knowledge of the intricacies. Though, sometimes they percive things in a more negative way then it really is.

I've read Das Kapital by Marx, but I don't believe that Communism will ever come. UBI, UBHI and UBSI is a necessity for the members of society that can't create wealth due to technological changes and deprecation of their skills and knowledge. I support those necessities as the other options are grim and always preclude a social collapse with domino effect. That's bad for business.

id go one step further and say we are already pretty far progressed with this new-style form of communism. At least in Eu, Oz, Nz, and Canada. Usa still divided somewhat and has another part objecting it.
Asia is always Asia and hard to understand. Latam does what Latam does while Africa being the region least affected imo since the control grid is not working there.

 

[wellington]

Africa being the region least affected imo since the control grid is not working there.

Hence my views on Kenya a while back - it’s the place so broken that it’s the perfect place to hide out what befalls the rest

 

[jafo]

Hence my views on Kenya a while back - it’s the place so broken that it’s the perfect place to hide out what befalls the rest

My exact sentiments about most places in Latin America and Asia, too!

PS. In Latin America, it's good as long as the self-appointed "slave masters" of the West don't report you to their politically connected and privileged buddies in positions of power in Latin America. Those "buddies" have their money in the West, so they must toe the line.

 

[JackAlabama]

Hence my views on Kenya a while back - it’s the place so broken that it’s the perfect place to hide out what befalls the rest

yeah totally agree on that.

 

[EliasIT]

Hence my views on Kenya a while back - it’s the place so broken that it’s the perfect place to hide out what befalls the rest

Then you'll just have to learn to live in a place where nothing works, and I think many people would find that difficult. What would you use all the money you're saving on taxes for, anyway?

I think the idea of a Swiss foundation sounds quite reliable, as long as we're talking about legal money and any debts are settled. It's not a crime to owe money, after all.

With the proposed structure, one should consider the costs of running a fund. I have no idea what such a setup costs annually or who can establish it.

Next, it's obviously important to get a very competent person to help with long term planning and drafting the key documents, which can't be altered later without government approval.

Operations could then be carried out through the operating company, and you could be employed there without creditors being able to touch you.

One consideration could be that, with the Swiss setup, the fund establishes a company in Country B, which could be Germany, and that company then establishes a company in the country where you would like to live in the future, without hassle. This way, the fund can invest in stocks, ETFs, and similar assets to legally accumulate your wealth. When you're tired of living in hiding and reach retirement age, you can, through the operating company, access the money once you've moved to a safe place.

To me, this sounds like quite a sustainable plan.

 

[wellington]

My exact sentiments about most places in Latin America and Asia, too!

PS. In Latin America, it's good as long as the self-appointed "slave masters" of the West don't report you to their politically connected and privileged buddies in positions of power in Latin America. Those "buddies" have their money in the West, so they must toe the line.

I’d rule Asia out

They’ve buddied up with China (now issuing the same) and or US and issuing the same

Then you'll just have to learn to live in a place where nothing works, and I think many people would find that difficult. What would you use all the money you're saving on taxes for, anyway?

I think the idea of a Swiss foundation sounds quite reliable, as long as we're talking about legal money and any debts are settled. It's not a crime to owe money, after all.

With the proposed structure, one should consider the costs of running a fund. I have no idea what such a setup costs annually or who can establish it.

Next, it's obviously important to get a very competent person to help with long term planning and drafting the key documents, which can't be altered later without government approval.

Operations could then be carried out through the operating company, and you could be employed there without creditors being able to touch you.

One consideration could be that, with the Swiss setup, the fund establishes a company in Country B, which could be Germany, and that company then establishes a company in the country where you would like to live in the future, without hassle. This way, the fund can invest in stocks, ETFs, and similar assets to legally accumulate your wealth. When you're tired of living in hiding and reach retirement age, you can, through the operating company, access the money once you've moved to a safe place.

To me, this sounds like quite a sustainable plan.

There is absolutely zero point living in a state because everything works when you have zero freedoms and for a comment on social media could be debanked and become a pryer

 

[EliasIT]

Now you're being very pessimistic when it comes to Europe, sitting in your home in Thailand and proclaiming the rest of the world to be dangerous and communist.

What you're talking about might – or might not – happen in 50 years, by which time I'll have left this world and couldn't care less.

If everyone is running around with a chip in their head and is remotely controlled to obey their government and, above all, the tax authorities, which have been renamed to 'the office of our almighty ruler,' then they'll have to deal with that at the time.

I need to look ahead from 2024 and maybe 20 years into the future. What happens after that is completely irrelevant and probably doesn't belong in this thread either.

Maybe you should write a book about dystopian Europe with all its dictators.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Then you'll just have to learn to live in a place where nothing works,

What is “nothing”?
What are the essential tools for business?
Internet: starlink.
Electricity: self production.
Office: you can build a skyscraper in those places with the budget of an apartment in Geneva.
Sad to see people accepting to give up freedom for “security” and “services”.

 

[wellington]

Now you're being very pessimistic when it comes to Europe, sitting in your home in Thailand and proclaiming the rest of the world to be dangerous and communist.

What you're talking about might – or might not – happen in 50 years, by which time I'll have left this world and couldn't care less.

If everyone is running around with a chip in their head and is remotely controlled to obey their government and, above all, the tax authorities, which have been renamed to 'the office of our almighty ruler,' then they'll have to deal with that at the time.

I need to look ahead from 2024 and maybe 20 years into the future. What happens after that is completely irrelevant and probably doesn't belong in this thread either.

Maybe you should write a book about dystopian Europe with all its dictators.

It’s already happening - we specifically position against it because it’s already happening…. I don’t need to write a book, they write us a cheque for every % of theft they do against you and others as residents or citizens - sorry to be so blunt but that’s the facts, the annualised debasement of 8% doesn't cover the nominal price increase of your assets, you are not getting wealthier annually but poorer, at the same time, those facilities/services you speak about are in rapid decline, and culturally the countries of Europe are being suffocated.

As for Thailand it’s a home, so is Europe so its sad to see but being outside allows one to see whereas being within you merely are a boiling frog.

 

[fighthorse]

What is “nothing”?
What are the essential tools for business?
Internet: starlink.
Electricity: self production.
Office: you can build a skyscraper in those places with the budget of an apartment in Geneva.
Sad to see people accepting to give up freedom for “security” and “services”.

Are you doing it this way where you live?

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Are you doing it this way where you live?

Yes, save for the skyscraper.

 

[wellington]

Are you doing it this way where you live?

In asia i have 25kw solar, satellite bb, fibreoptic bb, own house farm (greens etc) 60m bore well, 25m well, 30m well.
Annual property tax 15$
Annual bins etc (poll equivalent) 5$

Income tax well discussed on here

Gov interfering and trying to push agendas 0

 

[jafo]

I’d rule Asia out

They’ve buddied up with China (now issuing the same)

Can you expand on this, please?

PS. I'm not sure if I'm understanding why budding up with China is a bad thing... enlighten me

 

[wellington]

Can you expand on this, please?

PS. I'm not sure if I'm understanding why budding up with China is a bad thing... enlighten me

AI integration and full on tracking as well as attempts of CBDC or introduction of friction within the banking sector.

Pre Covid, you could send x million click of a button, now have to do face scans for 50k (THB), used to be able to use ATMs (300k THB) withdrawal, now 20-30k THB (and declining)

Reporting everywhere, phones tracking, Internet tracking, CBDC was meant to be trialed but failed (now giving cash to appease the peasants) for 50% and the other 50% give next year via the CBDC wallet (when its functioning).

China -> Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Burma, Philippines = AI

Vietnam, Singapore, Philippines, Indonesia (i actually had a MoU from Indo on the figurative table) going with American entities, Malaysia trying own thing.

Africa it will always fail as the people just grab a machete and march on the police/gov (Nigeria etc)

South America i can't comment on.

Europe - doesn't mind enslavement (debt) as long as the prison is comfortable (see above).

I respect people want to remain in Europe, and have businesses operating within the system, but like i've pointed out a few times, unless you are outpacing 'debasement' and then all the other areas such as operational, regulatory, taxes, commercial taxes etc, at the end of the day the amount of notes or zeros you have are likely worth less (spending power) than the growth of the debasement (outpacing it).

Then factor in the removal of freedoms which Europeans have so freely given, understandable, when most of Europe basically had them wrestled back by one or two European nations from Tyranny previously (UK, EMPIRE, US, Allies) so its normal for Europeans to give away their rights and their freedoms IMO and from what i've seen with European friends (French, Belgiums, Dutch etc)

And i ask myself at the end of it, is it worth it, and i can't see how it is, i also don't see why people try to work within it, rather than taking a stance against it and shorting it, making them pay for what they are doing via proxies (i realise you are Jafo without probably recognising it at first).

As for this Swiss idea, its hocus pocus, due to Unexplained Wealth Orders, and Civil Forfeitures the onus is then on the UBO to confront via lengthy legal processes.

The Tates learned that recently very publicly.

And anyway theres a much cheaper alternative than having to deal with Swiss side, a standard formalised informal British style Trust which doesn't require submissions or knowledge, nor centralised record keeping outside of the parties within.

 

[jafo]

AI integration and full on tracking as well as attempts of CBDC or introduction of friction within the banking sector.

Pre Covid, you could send x million click of a button, now have to do face scans for 50k (THB), used to be able to use ATMs (300k THB) withdrawal, now 20-30k THB (and declining)

Reporting everywhere, phones tracking, Internet tracking, CBDC was meant to be trialed but failed (now giving cash to appease the peasants) for 50% and the other 50% give next year via the CBDC wallet (when its functioning).

China -> Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Burma, Philippines = AI

Vietnam, Singapore, Philippines, Indonesia (i actually had a MoU from Indo on the figurative table) going with American entities, Malaysia trying own thing.

Africa it will always fail as the people just grab a machete and march on the police/gov (Nigeria etc)

South America i can't comment on.

Europe - doesn't mind enslavement (debt) as long as the prison is comfortable (see above).

I respect people want to remain in Europe, and have businesses operating within the system, but like i've pointed out a few times, unless you are outpacing 'debasement' and then all the other areas such as operational, regulatory, taxes, commercial taxes etc, at the end of the day the amount of notes or zeros you have are likely worth less (spending power) than the growth of the debasement (outpacing it).

Then factor in the removal of freedoms which Europeans have so freely given, understandable, when most of Europe basically had them wrestled back by one or two European nations from Tyranny previously (UK, EMPIRE, US, Allies) so its normal for Europeans to give away their rights and their freedoms IMO and from what i've seen with European friends (French, Belgiums, Dutch etc)

And i ask myself at the end of it, is it worth it, and i can't see how it is, i also don't see why people try to work within it, rather than taking a stance against it and shorting it, making them pay for what they are doing via proxies (i realise you are Jafo without probably recognising it at first).

I got it! I (thought I?) understood it but was on the fence since I'm not "shorting" it. I can't break bread with the people with the financial vehicles to short it —their serfdom disgusts me.

Africa it will always fail as the people just grab a machete and march on the police/gov (Nigeria etc)

Exactly the same in Latin America!

A real OG had mentioned something similar to me in 2003 in Miami at La Carreta next to Miami International Mall.
It was the second time I heard of it. The first time was in Buenos Aires at Alvear Palace Hotel, Luxury Hotel in Buenos Aires in 1991.
The third time, was another Top OG at Restaurante Ángel on via Argentina in Panama in 2007. This guy also called the collapse of the mortgage system. It was so foreign to me that I wrote it down, but I didn't understand what I was writing. I can string the letters and words together, but I was totally ignorant as to its meaning. I keep a diary...remember?
It was recently (last 4 to 5 years), after reading many things here from you, @JohnnyDoe , @JackAlabama and @Martin Everson and many others that it finally clicked in my head. I discovered the lobby/front-desk to check into my brain!
Bruuuhhhhh....when I mean I am slow and stupid... I am NOT exaggerating or trying to be funny.... I mean 1991 to 2024? That's a 3-year learning curve!!!
WTF???!!!

Which is the reason I went for this and wrote it in the Mentor Group Gold: https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...lution-on-the-behest-of-a-forum-member.44072/

I'm hoping for the best, but I am prepared for the worst!

Thank you all for sharing!

 

[wellington]

This guy also called the collapse of

The current things don't entail a collapse per se (nominally) think of it as a 8% annualised tax on starving a collapse off, thing is that exponentially grows alongside the exponential growth of the debt.

So around now, this year, its about 12% (this is monetary inflation that impacts asset prices at certain scales), inflation (variable) isn't so impacted (affects variable goods/services).

So as long as people are happy with their heads in the sand, feeling wealthier because they have more zeros, and content with the debt enslavement process until either of the three happen and catch them off-guard, and by then its too late for various reasons

1) World War - they die
2) Financial Collapse (08 looks like a picnic) - their material wealth becomes valueless - leads to 1 or 3 then 1
3) Productivity Miracle - they are obsolete due to Robotics/ai doing their role for less and with higher output -> leads to 1 or 2 then 1 from 2.

1991

Productivity chart of the US started declining then, hit in 2000, world debt jubilee in 08, and now just trying to refinance it all like CC to CC praying for a miracle.

 

[wellington]

*Some bearer assets types in 2024

https://www.libertymundo.com/index.php/2022/07/02/bearer-instruments/
NFT's are an interesting one, i know quite a few people NW+100m$ buying specific NFT's with no intent to liquidate or speculate on, just as a long-term value hold (i don't mean monkeys or rocks).

 

[JackAlabama]

I second to this. Quite curious what MGG members have to say about the setup considering that I have a friends and they have their friends with such setup.

it might have worked in a past version switzerland, which reflects in people still holding on to it.

But the country in its current form is experiencing a sharp turn joining into the collectivism grappling europe. Further it has lost its neutrality and if pressure arise, due to internal weakness, it will change laws overnight (this could be seen easily since 2020 especially). They are also quick in confiscating russian assets.

So, since this way uses man made laws as its only way of protection, I would not bet the form on a country which has had such a track record in the recent past.

 

[mraleph]

it might have worked in a past version switzerland, which reflects in people still holding on to it.

But the country in its current form is experiencing a sharp turn joining into the collectivism grappling europe. Further it has lost its neutrality and if pressure arise, due to internal weakness, it will change laws overnight (this could be seen easily since 2020 especially). They are also quick in confiscating russian assets.

So, since this way uses man made laws as its only way of protection, I would not bet the form on a country which has had such a track record in the recent past.

Okay.

The current Swiss Embargogesetz in article 1 para 1

https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2002/564/en#art_1
defines the differential neutrality such was during 1918-1938, before an absolute one was re-established just before WW2. Why are you convinced that further erosion of Swiss traditions and values and EU allignment will occur?

I perceive the Swiss situation as quite different then portraited at OCT. Numerous agreements and negotiations with EU and NATO have ceased. And the legal foundations for sanctioned persons assets confiscation exist from 2002.

By analogy, Asia, LATAM and Africa are more dangerous then and with lower quality of life then EEA, EFTA, UK and US.

Again, not interested for religious wars - only discussion on the subject matter.

 

[JackAlabama]

Okay.

The current Swiss Embargogesetz in article 1 para 1

https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2002/564/en#art_1
defines the differential neutrality such was during 1918-1938, before an absolute one was re-established just before WW2. Why are you convinced that further erosion of Swiss traditions and values and EU allignment will occur?

I perceive the Swiss situation as quite different then portraited at OCT. Numerous agreements and negotiations with EU and NATO have ceased. And the legal foundations for sanctioned persons assets confiscation exist from 2002.

mainly bc trends in motion tend to stay in motion (the trend is your friend until the end).

what has been written in law does not mean much these days in the west (its like the whole world is becoming a banana republic).

you can look what they are currently doing. They confiscated assets of russians due to pressure from us and eu (which is against the law in many instances) while giving money freely to Ukrainians (I dont wanna pick sides here, but this is just not neutral at all, you cant favor one side over another while claiming being neutral. Fair point tho if they want to actively join the western bloc). During covid, they forced to close shops (which is against the law as well). They prosecute free speech on X of people mocking against the lgbtq group.
There are many more such examples.

By analogy, Asia, LATAM and Africa are more dangerous then and with lower quality of life then EEA, EFTA, UK and US.

Again, not interested for religious wars - only discussion on the subject matter.

this does not mean necessarily lower quality of life, far from it. Even in areas of Africa you can have an equal lifestyle than in many European capitals for less.