How to avoid CRS with a company in Georgia?

[happyjohn]

Reading all the posts and threads about companies registered in the Republic of Georgia and the avoiding of CRS and general tax reporting I thought how it is possible to avoid it while director- & shareholders name is public?

It will only take 48 hours before google has indexed the public register in Georgia and revealet all names there, how long do you think it will take for someone to filter results from there?

Only possible option left to avoid your name to show up anywhere is using nominees right?

 

[Tax Cow]

Illegal tax evasion is okay on moral grounds, as long as you're not a leech on society who pays nothing at all; but you must sharpen your hide n' seek strategy by starting with a proxy residence, or with a foreign real estate investment.

Do you want me to explain the risks you take by opting for such an easy solution?

 

[Osleak]

Reading all the posts and threads about companies registered in the Republic of Georgia and the avoiding of CRS and general tax reporting I thought how it is possible to avoid it while director- & shareholders name is public?

It will only take 48 hours before google has indexed the public register in Georgia and revealet all names there, how long do you think it will take for someone to filter results from there?

Only possible option left to avoid your name to show up anywhere is using nominees right?

Yes @xzars is right, follow his advice there is very good thread about proxy residence you can find a lot pf information there!

If you can invest something more you can opt for Dubai visa

 

[happyjohn]

Do you want me to explain the risks you take by opting for such an easy solution?

yes please elaborate would be nice

 

[Tax Cow]

@happyjohn

My pleasure.

1) Fear of an offshore agent

Let's play a game.

I'm a UK tax collector, appointed to penetrate offshore tax evaders.

The first thing I'd do is find popular offshore service provider websites, the likes of SFM and OCC, and offer them a bit of cash in exchange for information:

"Hello, I'm a big brother from the UK. You have two choices:

1. Give us information about all UK citizens and residents who have used your services in the last 3 years. We'll pay you ~fifty thousand pounds for the administrative work. We will not disclose to 3rd parties from where we obtained the information.
2. Alternatively, we will hold you liable for promoting tax evasion and unwillingness to cooperate."

Would your offshore agent risk fines and shock imprisonment to protect you?

2) Greed of an offshore agent

Once the offshore agent has hoarded details of ~a thousand UK customers, he can approach the UK tax office anonymously with a business proposal. For example, offer to sell the details of potential tax evaders for a hundred thousand pounds.

Denmark paid a million for the well-organized details of Danish citizens/residents featured in the Panama Papers leak. It's a lucrative business opportunity, particularly if the offshore agent is thinking about retirement. Why not cash in on lifetime of work to make the retirement a little sunnier?

3) Accidental information leaks from the offshore agent

Incorporation windmills are not information security experts. The Panama Papers and Paradise Papers scandals are perfect pieces of evidence. Documents featuring sensitive information are probably printed out, on the table, under a coffee cup; digital files held on an unpatched Windows XP file server.

...

3 Major Risks, and we've not yet touched banks and payments, CRS/FATCA, or Bilateral Information Exchange Agreements. If there's interest, I can elaborate a little further.

 

[GrumpyMess]

It will only take 48 hours before google has indexed the public register in Georgia and revealet all names there, how long do you think it will take for someone to filter results from there?

I have discovered some unpleasant things about Georgia, not only your name will be in public, but the whole information about you including your address, full passport details and even your photo. It's a privacy disaster and it's a last place on the earth you want to incorporate to keep your privacy saved.

 

[Alex Durham]

I have discovered some unpleasant things about Georgia, not only your name will be in public, but the whole information about you including your address, full passport details and even your photo. It's a privacy disaster and it's a last place on the earth you want to incorporate to keep your privacy saved.

Trick to avoid publicity of shareholder related information is to create a joint stock company, instead of a limited liability company. In that case private share registrator will keep confidential shareholder related information. It won’t be available at Certificate of Incumbency that is public. Only director data will be public.

 

[John Andrews]

What are the costs of incorporating a JSC in Georgia?

 

[JohnLocke]

What are the costs of incorporating a JSC in Georgia?

I would like to know that too as well as what is the procedure to do that? Can it be done with an existing company or will it leave a history at the register of companies in Georgia?

 

[blackeric]

I have discovered some unpleasant things about Georgia, not only your name will be in public, but the whole information about you including your address, full passport details and even your photo. It's a privacy disaster and it's a last place on the earth you want to incorporate to keep your privacy saved.

Where did you find that information?

 

[Alex Durham]

State fee for corporate registration was same 100 GEL or 200 GEL (per your choice depends how fast you need company to be registered). Lawyer fee could be a bit higher than for LLC. But for a simple structure (one shareholder) can be even same to LLC. To open share registry was free and monthly fee for maintenance was 30 GEL.

If you have existing LLC, it can be transformed as JSC but process is slow. It still will leave history. But from the moment LLC is transformed into JSC, shareholder data becomes confidential. Only director or authorized person (with POA from director) can obtain such data from a private registry. All transactions you do with issuance of new shares, sale of your shareholding fully or partially, etc. is confidential and not accessible for public.

I did a brand new JSC with a nominee director (my lawyer) and one shareholder (myself). You can also use nominee shareholder service.

Corp. taxes are same to LLC and JSC. Set up process is also same, with only difference - for shareholding related data you need to contact private share registry in Georgia and maintain registry there (there are multiple service providers, however their fees are same).

You can contact your lawyer in Georgia to get more info. In general, their cap fee for JSC set up (simple structure) should be around $600 max (including bank account). I can share my lawyer’s contact as well if that will be helpful.

 

[abarber]

I am new here and want to have a new bis account in Georgia so must create a new compagny in georgia.

Can you please share your lawyer in Georgia? thx a lot.

 

[happyjohn]

Do you want me to explain the risks you take by opting for such an easy solution?

yes please go ahead would like to learn more

 

[GrumpyMess]

Only director or authorized person (with POA from director) can obtain such data from a private registry. All transactions you do with issuance of new shares, sale of your shareholding fully or partially, etc. is confidential and not accessible for public.

Has anyone else tried this trick? I have checked the registry and it seems data is confidential, however won't there be any shareholders decisions available in the public registry after some time?

 

[blockchain4ever]

Set up process is also same, with only difference - for shareholding related data you need to contact private share registry in Georgia and maintain registry there (there are multiple service providers, however their fees are same).

There is zero chance in h*ll that a "private share registry" in Georgia will be able to keep this data secure. It's just a matter of the tax office providing decent bounties. Again, the ONLY protection you have is that the bounties set by the tax authorities is currently way too low.

The bounty again is set relative to the tax evasion they think is taking place, so it basically boils down to popularity, and as Georgia is gaining popularity, your data will be even less secure.

 

[Alex Durham]

If data can leak from Panama obviously there is no guarantee that it won’t leak from Georgia. Do you have any specific case from Georgia of data leak? Because I did not hear anything so far and the structure set up I have at the moment it’s working very well.

 

[blockchain4ever]

If data can leak from Panama obviously there is no guarantee that it won’t leak from Georgia. Do you have any specific case from Georgia of data leak? Because I did not hear anything so far and the structure set up I have at the moment it’s working very well.

I don't have any specific case, no. When it leaks, everything will leak in one go, so you won't find a specific case leaked.
I am just voicing my professional opinion on these setups. I believe they are extremely fragile. Unless you know specific details about the security of such a registry, assume it is secure through obscurity, and security by obscurity will lead to a public leak whenever it becomes interesting enough to attack.

 

[GrumpyMess]

If data can leak from Panama obviously there is no guarantee that it won’t leak from Georgia. Do you have any specific case from Georgia of data leak? Because I did not hear anything so far and the structure set up I have at the moment it’s working very well.

No specific case, just at the moment Georgia has the worst data protection laws I ever seen. I can see the full director's information of any company, even his photo and home address. Their property register is also fully public, which allows search even by name. I won’t be surprised if one day they will publish resident's bank accounts and balances data. It's not about tax evasion, it's about privacy.

I believe they are extremely fragile

Unfortunately, all existing setups currently are quite fragile. Georgia just attracts with it's low tax benefits.

 

[saetta]

Alex Durham
hello i am interested in an address of your lawyer in georgia

 

[erni]

No specific case, just at the moment Georgia has the worst data protection laws I ever seen. I can see the full director's information of any company, even his photo and home address.

I guess pretty much everybody that setup their company in Georgia is fucked right now if that is the truth

I read in the mentor group about how to protect your privacy, I'm happy I followed the instructions there so it won't be my picture you see there.