How to Protect Asset from Eu Government with offshore company.

[GrumpyMess]

If his bank does not understand it, he can open an account with another EU bank that is more crypto-friendly. As long as he can show a contract regarding the source of that 700K, I see no major obstacles.

There will be problems not only with the banks but with crypto exchanges also. The first question the second bank and exchange will ask is "Why don't you cash out via the same entities as you cash in?"

Then all the EU bank sees is a wire to another bank in the name of his company.

The bank will not know whose company it is. And in any case, a trace remains.

Move out of EU then and take assets with you like many have done.

By "Move out of EU" you mean give up a residency or to leave and never come back even as a tourist?

 

[Osleak]

Flying with a suitcase full of money, lol. Even in intra-eu fligts it's insanity, and not to mention the fact that first you need to withdraw this money from the bank.


I don't know how the compliance in UAE is made, but I don't think it's still possible to bring 700k in the country no questions asked, especially knowing how difficult it is now with banks in UAE. And the property prices in UAE are falling, so there can be considerable losses


crypto is always high risk, you'll raise all possible red flags if the amount is higher than 1k. You definitely will be asked for the source of funds.

There are no problems funds are clean! It’s just for my customer privacy and to have strong protection in the future

 

[Osleak]

And if EU bans crypto or makes it subject to more due diligence and reporting, he can open a corporate bank account elsewhere.

Why not in the Caucasus? Then all the EU bank sees is a wire to another bank in the name of his company. From there, he can pay out salary and dividend to drain the balance, bypassing crypto altogether. Perhaps the risks are even less this way.

Yes he would avoid crypto transactions if possible.

As i’ve already told funds are clean 100%, so he have financial statement of company.

What do you think to use 2 non crs banks for example:

1) he send dividends to personal account in ameriabank non crs (if bank ask he can send them proof of funds)

2) from armenia he send to another non crs personal account like epb or if you can suggest me another one is welcome

3) the real estate investments it’s better to do by personal account or by corporate account of the belize company directly? I ask this because at final step the assets should be owned by a belize holding.

 

[Osleak]

Move out of EU then and take assets with you like many have done.



There is no real yield in safe bonds currently. Best bet is to take cash and fly into Malta and buy holiday apartments in cash. Do it before Malta's new law banning cash transactions larger than 10k comes into effect . I may have a nice Portomoso apartment for sale soon as I have been back in Caribbean for a while now .

Btw watch the film The Laundromat

Thanks Martin for your help, it could be an option, but Malta is not very good as real estate investment at the moment, what do you think?

 

[Osleak]

There will be problems not only with the banks but with crypto exchanges also. The first question the second bank and exchange will ask is "Why don't you cash out via the same entities as you cash in?"


The bank will not know whose company it is. And in any case, a trace remains.


By "Move out of EU" you mean give up a residency or to leave and never come back even as a tourist?

Have you idea of the costs and procedures for EU government to ask informations to extraeu jurisdiction non crs?? And if the government want risk to go ahead by court to get informations from the first non crs bank they will see that inside account there is nothing! So they should go ahead by court to the second non crs jurisdiction .... for 700k .... it’s little ridiculous

 

[Tax Cow]

@Osleak

If the funds are very clean, just pay out a dividend from the EU corporate account to personal accounts in the Caucasus. Two bank accounts in different banks, minimum. Don't trust one developing market bank with all that money.

Belize holding is not a dreadful idea, but it's not that useful for operational purposes abroad. Your client wants to let out the properties, right?

This is the typical setup for cross-border real estate investments:
Zero Tax Holding company -> Owns 100% of the operational company. In the country where real estate is situated.

In your case, if the target markets are, for example, Colombia and Mexico:

- Belize Holding Company -> Owns 100% of Colombia company, and 100% of Mexico company
- COL and MX companies hold the title deeds and source rental income via local bank accounts
- Excess after-tax profits are wired back to holding company, hoarded in a safe bank account that is denominated in stable currency, until another attractive investment opportunity comes available

Also, try as hard as possible, even if you have to spend $10K on lawyers, to open a USD bank account in the United States for that Belize holding company. It's so much easier to do business with USD bank accounts located in the US. Meanwhile, identify the largest Belizean bank that is of systemic importance to the country, and bank with them.

 

[Osleak]

If the funds are very clean, just pay out a dividend from the EU corporate account to personal accounts in the Caucasus. Two bank accounts in different banks, minimum. Don't trust one developing market bank with all that money

Thanks for advice, yes all clean and with proof of funds, but he want to have a protection against debtors like governments, in the eventually of something go wrong.

Belize holding is not a dreadful idea, but it's not that useful for operational purposes abroad. Your client wants to let out the properties, right?

Yes he will let the properties

Also, try as hard as possible, even if you have to spend $10K on lawyers, to open a USD bank account in the United States for that Belize holding company. It's so much easier to do business with USD bank accounts located in the US. Meanwhile, identify the largest Belizean bank that is of systemic importance to the country, and bank with them.

Yes it could be very good! You can suggest me introducer/lawyer to open bank account in US and Belize?

Btw many thanks for your big support to me and all the community

 

[GrumpyMess]

As i’ve already told funds are clean 100%, so he have financial statement of company.

What do you think to use 2 non crs banks for example:

If the funds are clean and taxes have been payed I don't see why he has to go for this complex and not 100% reliable route.

You can route via 10 non crs banks but there can't be any privacy from govt. If the client wants protection and safety he can use the trust setup, but I repeat even trusts don't provide a reliable solution today.

 

[Osleak]

If the funds are clean and taxes have been payed I don't see why he has to go for this complex and not 100% reliable route.

You can route via 10 non crs banks but there can't be any privacy from govt. If the client wants protection and safety he can use the trust setup, but I repeat even trusts don't provide a reliable solution today.

This is not true, non crs bank don’t share informations to other governments so the eu government can see only the first transfer from eu bank to first non crs country, after that to get informations or to proceed eventually with seizure of the assets it’s not simple and cheaper or you want to negate also this thing?

 

[Osleak]

Belize holding is not a dreadful idea, but it's not that useful for operational purposes abroad. Your client wants to let out the properties, right?

This is the typical setup for cross-border real estate investments:
Zero Tax Holding company -> Owns 100% of the operational company. In the country where real estate is situated.

It’s impossible at all to own properties with the offshore belize holding company without the local companies ?

 

[GrumpyMess]

It’s impossible at all to own properties with the offshore belize holding company without the local companies ?

It depends on country, in some you can without restrictions

This is not true, non crs bank don’t share informations to other governments so the eu government can see only the first transfer from eu bank to first non crs country, after that to get informations or to proceed eventually with seizure of the assets it’s not simple and cheaper or you want to negate also this thing?

If there is a criminal case one simple request is enough, this is a fairly routine. It's not a fast route, but you can't hide or protect your assets if there is a connection. If there will be no criminal case the trusts are right setup. In case of a simple belize corp it can protect you in some cases, but definitely not from the goverments.

 

[Osleak]

It depends on country, in some you can without restrictions


If there is a criminal case one simple request is enough, this is a fairly routine. It's not a fast route, but you can't hide or protect your assets if there is a connection. If there will be no criminal case the trusts are right setup. In case of a simple belize corp it can protect you in some cases, but definitely not from the goverments.

I think it depend on what you are talking about for criminal case... terrorism, murder, arms trafficking?

Or you mean also for debt with the governments?

I think that eu government must go by international court to have the possibility of seize the assets not just a request!

 

[Tax Cow]

Yes it could be very good! You can suggest me introducer/lawyer to open bank account in US and Belize?

No sorry. It's best to go in person with certified documents obtained in UAE. You may have to show your passport, that is okay. Book a 2-week holiday in the US.

Walk in a branch. And if one branch says no, it does not mean the bank rejected you. Try another branch of the same bank in another state, if you run out of options.

It’s impossible at all to own properties with the offshore belize holding company without the local companies ?

Inconvenient and high risk. Subject to more scrutiny and restrictions, outright impossible in some cases. The governments are actively making life more difficult for foreign property owners - whether it be via extra taxes, requirements to have the foreign company audited annually, or buying restrictions.

And of course, a local company will get access to local banking with relative ease. I'm not too sure if a Belize company can hold a local bank account in Colombia. Certainly the tenants will hate you if you ask them to pay via high cost wires

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@GrumpyMess

You moved from valid points to fearmongering.

His real estate ventures abroad are conducted through UAE proxy residency. This is a highly viable solution if the client can get an ID document, utility bill, a phone number, and a second proof of address in his name, from UAE. The remittance is clearly visible and tracable, but assuming the remitted funds are clean, there is no substance for a criminal investigation. The ultimate destination of funds will remain unknown for Cyprus.

If anything, Cyprus will get interested once the client starts spending back at home, like a king, but not reporting much or any income.

 

[GrumpyMess]

I think it depend on what you are talking about for criminal case... terrorism, murder, arms trafficking?

Or you mean also for debt with the governments?

I think that eu government must go by international court to have the possibility of seize the assets not just a request!

I mean a criminal case connected with these money. If the client is 100% clean for the moment a trust or a simple belize company might work. There is no such thing as international court for such cases, the govt has to made a legal request to the respective country which to be examined by a local court. This is not an easy process, especially in case of belize, but non impossible.

You moved from valid points to fearmongering.

His real estate ventures abroad are conducted through UAE proxy residency. This is a highly viable solution if the client can get an ID document, utility bill, a phone number, and a second proof of address in his name, from UAE. The remittance is clearly visible and tracable, but assuming the remitted funds are clean, there is no substance for a criminal investigation. The ultimate destination of funds will remain unknown for Cyprus.

I forgot about UAE proxy residency. In this case a security through obscurity might work.

 

[Osleak]

No sorry. It's best to go in person with certified documents obtained in UAE. You may have to show your passport, that is okay. Book a 2-week holiday in the US.

Walk in a branch. And if one branch says no, it does not mean the bank rejected you. Try another branch of the same bank in another state, if you run out of options.



Inconvenient and high risk. Subject to more scrutiny and restrictions, outright impossible in some cases. The governments are actively making life more difficult for foreign property owners - whether it be via extra taxes, requirements to have the foreign company audited annually, or buying restrictions.

And of course, a local company will get access to local banking with relative ease. I'm not too sure if a Belize company can hold a local bank account in Colombia. Certainly the tenants will hate you if you ask them to pay via high cost wires

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@GrumpyMess

You moved from valid points to fearmongering.

His real estate ventures abroad are conducted through UAE proxy residency. This is a highly viable solution if the client can get an ID document, utility bill, a phone number, and a second proof of address in his name, from UAE. The remittance is clearly visible and tracable, but assuming the remitted funds are clean, there is no substance for a criminal investigation. The ultimate destination of funds will remain unknown for Cyprus.

If anything, Cyprus will get interested once the client starts spending back at home, like a king, but not reporting much or any income.

Noted, and assuming after my customer sent all money abroad something gone wrong with accounting in Cyprus, for example, and the cyprus company owe to cyprus government taxes, the government just need a simple request to get informations from non crs bank and to start seizure of asses?or they must spent a lot of money and time to start the procedure by court?

 

[Osleak]

I mean a criminal case connected with these money. If the client is 100% clean for the moment a trust or a simple belize company might work. There is no such thing as international court for such cases, the govt has to made a legal request to the respective country which to be examined by a local court. This is not an easy process, especially in case of belize, but non impossible.


I forgot about UAE proxy residency. In this case a security through obscurity might work.

What you mean with security trought obscurity?

 

[Tax Cow]

Noted, and assuming after my customer sent all money abroad something gone wrong with accounting in Cyprus, for example, and the cyprus company owe to cyprus government taxes, the government just need a simple request to get informations from non crs bank and to start seizure of asses?or they must spent a lot of money and time to start the procedure by court?

...

It's impossible to give useful advice if we're not clear about the legitimacy of funds. If Cyprus suspects large-scale tax evasion, they can ask for bank account information from the non-CRS bank. They will likely get the help they need, at least the information, without a court judgment.

To seize the funds therein, a judgment is required regardless of which countries are involved. Before that happens, your client has an opportunity to come clean and pay what he owes.

 

[GrumpyMess]

Noted, and assuming after my customer sent all money abroad something gone wrong with accounting in Cyprus, for example, and the cyprus company owe to cyprus government taxes, the government just need a simple request to get informations from non crs bank and to start seizure of asses?or they must spent a lot of money and time to start the procedure by court?

If there are diplomatic relations between both countries the process is faster, otherwise it most likely to go through a court, but don't expect a foreign court will be protecting you

What you mean with security trought obscurity?

If the Cyprus doesn't know about assets' location and there is no connection you are 99.9% safe

your client has an opportunity to come clean and pay what he owes

if only there always was an opportunity to pay... things are quite different when they first put the person in jail

 

[lavel]

1) he will buy outside europe

But where will he buy then? A place where Belize is recognized as no tax heaven?

 

[Osleak]

...

It's impossible to give useful advice if we're not clear about the legitimacy of funds. If Cyprus suspects large-scale tax evasion, they can ask for bank account information from the non-CRS bank. They will likely get the help they need, at least the information, without a court judgment.

The funds are legitimate he has paid all taxes, funds are dividend from legal activity, I'm making assumptions.

To seize the funds therein, a judgment is required regardless of which countries are involved. Before that happens, your client has an opportunity to come clean and pay what he owes.

So non crs it’s good to hide and protect for example against private creditors (it depend of the entity of the debt)

To be protected from government non crs is not enough it’s better proxy residence and security without connection as @GrumpyMess wrote... but how? It’s possible only by crypto or cash