How to Protect Asset from Eu Government with offshore company.

[Osleak]

My customer is looking to protect his assets from the government.

At the moment he hasn’t debt with anyone, and he has about 700k in his eu company and personal bank accounts and he is resident in cyprus where he has ltd trading company.

He would like to send his money offshore to non crs bank accounts (like armenia, georgia porto rico) and than buy properties around the world (outside europe) as real estate investment.

Eventually What is the best way to do this to hide and protect his assets from any creditors like eu government (like cyprus or others)?

What is a good way to send money out from eu to non crs country without uncover to the government that the receiver bank account is own by him?

 

[Osleak]

I’ve proposed to him to do in this way:

1) open personal bank account in porto rico, and send the money there like 30k or little more montly.

2) open offshore company (belize, seychelles or something like that) to hold the assets (bank accounts and properties)

3) send the money from personal bank account in porto rico to corporate bank account of the offshore company in the same bank (it’s better to use 2 jurisdictions for the 2 banks?)

4) with offshore company he can do investment in real estate, bonds, and other assets.

What do you think?

 

[John Andrews]

set up a Belize or Seychelles parent company as a holding for the Cyprus LTD (assuming it's tax resident in Cyprus) and invest into real estate through the holding company.

also get a Georgia bank account for the Cyprus Ltd, just in case.

 

[Osleak]

set up a Belize or Seychelles parent company as a holding for the Cyprus LTD (assuming it's tax resident in Cyprus) and invest into real estate through the holding company.

Thanks for answer... and bank account of the holding where? Eventually the ubo and director of holding and cyprus trading has fee debt with Cyprus government, the government can be able to understand that seychelles or belize company is owned by him? And will be the government able to seize the assets hold by offshore holding?

 

[John Andrews]

Not sure, maybe someone else can give more info. Obviously it would be some bank outside of EU.

 

[Osleak]

Okk thanks any other advice? Little more robust it’s appreciate

 

[Sols]

I'd say you can't both protect your money and move money into a jurisdiction like Armenia, Georgia, or Puerto Rico. Those aren't safe, stable countries. Puerto Rico might be more stable under a different US administration or if you bank with one of the major US banks there.

If your client has a compliant, lawful structure right now, why do they want to move money to a non-CRS country? The government already knows about the money being earned in Cyprus.

I often get the impression some people think countries like Armenia and Georgia are fighting against CRS. They're not. They just haven't been subject to pressure yet. But as, one by one, the big players all sign up for it, it's just a matter of time before everyone has.

And the only reason Puerto Rico is - for now at least - exempt from FATCA (and thereby CRS) is because of a legal fringe case due to internal US politics.

The more dirty money that moves to these jurisdictions, the higher up on the agenda they will be for EU, OECD, and others.

 

[Osleak]

I'd say you can't both protect your money and move money into a jurisdiction like Armenia, Georgia, or Puerto Rico. Those aren't safe, stable countries. Puerto Rico might be more stable under a different US administration or if you bank with one of the major US banks there.

If your client has a compliant, lawful structure right now, why do they want to move money to a non-CRS country? The government already knows about the money being earned in Cyprus.

I often get the impression some people think countries like Armenia and Georgia are fighting against CRS. They're not. They just haven't been subject to pressure yet. But as, one by one, the big players all sign up for it, it's just a matter of time before everyone has.

And the only reason Puerto Rico is - for now at least - exempt from FATCA (and thereby CRS) is because of a legal fringe case due to internal US politics.

The more dirty money that moves to these jurisdictions, the higher up on the agenda they will be for EU, OECD, and others.

Thanks for your answer.

The non crs bank need only as transit bank.

So no big amount of money will be hold in these countries, funds will be use to buy properties around the world trought offshore companies.

This matter is only for privacy and to hide/protect ubo from debtor like eu government.

 

[GrumpyMess]

This matter is only for privacy and to hide/protect ubo from debtor like eu government.

Is this scheme still works? If the govt considers you owe the money can't they just seize your company's shares or the company itself ?

 

[Osleak]

Is this scheme still works? If the govt considers you owe the money can't they just seize your company's shares or the company itself ?

I think that cyprus government if it is creditor of Cyprus company he can seize shares or bank account of the Cyprus company....

But the question is how to protect the assets? If the funds of Cyprus company is sent abroad to an offshore bank account owned by a belize company, cyprus government will have little bigger problem to get the funds or seize bank account i think!

 

[GrumpyMess]

I think that cyprus government if it is creditor of Cyprus company he can seize shares or bank account of the Cyprus company....

But the question is how to protect the assets? If the funds of Cyprus company is sent abroad to an offshore bank account owned by a belize company, cyprus government will have little bigger problem to get the funds or seize bank account i think!

I mean protection with offshore company. What prevents one country from sending a legal request to Belize even if there are no diplomatic relations? This request will be satisfied by the Belize court and the game is over

 

[Tax Cow]

Making that 700K vanish to a non-CRS bank is straight-forward. The second part about investments abroad is a lot harder. As I understand, he wants to continue living in Cyprus, correct?

Secondly, does he have a target real estate market in mind? That 700K is not that much - perhaps a few units. I'd stick with one jurisdiction until at least 2.5M of investable funds because each jurisdiction has its own laws and complications.

 

[Osleak]

Yes he will live in europe but he will get also second residence in UAE next year. About real estate investment you suggest to buy all prperties in one jurisdiction? The properties will be ownby the belize holding...

He is thinking to buy an apartment in UAE in this way he has all the papers available to open the new bank accounts with the UAE Residence and utility bills

 

[lavel]

Do you really think it is possible to buy any European property or even a car with a Belize Holding company? What are you going to do if the tax auth confiscate what is bought, so you will start from zero again.

Beside that I really questioning what a real estate will say or the receiver bank if you tell them the buyer is a Belize Holding company and them oney is coming from Transferwise or a bank in Georgia
Theoretical I agree it is not a problem but in real live it smells like huge trouble.

 

[Martin Everson]

My customer is looking to protect his assets from the government.

Move out of EU then and take assets with you like many have done.

4) with offshore company he can do investment in real estate, bonds, and other assets.

There is no real yield in safe bonds currently. Best bet is to take cash and fly into Malta and buy holiday apartments in cash. Do it before Malta's new law banning cash transactions larger than 10k comes into effect . I may have a nice Portomoso apartment for sale soon as I have been back in Caribbean for a while now .

Btw watch the film The Laundromat

 

[Tax Cow]

@Martin Everson
The movie is available to public, or did you see it in festival?

@Osleak

He is thinking to buy an apartment in UAE in this way he has all the papers available to open the new bank accounts with the UAE Residence and utility bills

This is the correct way to go about it. Leave no trail of a connection to Cyprus; it's more hassle up front, but better long term.

I'd skip Puerto Rico. It's a well-known whore house, even on the EU money-laundering watch list.

Banks in the Caucasus are perceived as somewhat fishy, but are still okay as the stepping-stone. Although, I'd not send in money there directly, even if you intend to close the accounts in ~12 months. Consider fiat-crypto-fiat, perhaps other members can share more insight to this procedure. As I've heard, moving $1000 worth of crypto from one exchange to other is now subject to some automatic information sharing. Therefore, your client must send crypto to a self-controlled wallet prior to sending it to another exchange for cash out.

As Martin suggested, dumping funds on EU-situs property via cash is also an option, but consider ~5-10% round trip costs (estate agent fees, stamp duty, possible capital gains etc.). Personally, I'm not a fan of EU BTL property as long-term investment, except maybe for the Balkan states where decent yields are the norm not an exception.

1. EU Bank Account -> Crypto Exchange
2. Crypto Exchange -> Self-Controlled Wallet
... Wait a few months
3. Self-Controlled Wallet -> Another Crypto Exchange
4. Another Crypto Exchange -> Bank account(s) in Caucasus
5. Bank(s) in Caucasus -> Bank account(s) in UAE (opened as UAE resident)

Once that is done, post a new question about real estate investments. There is no reason to open that Belize offshore company before that.

 

[GrumpyMess]

Best bet is to take cash and fly into Malta and buy holiday apartments in cash

Flying with a suitcase full of money, lol. Even in intra-eu fligts it's insanity, and not to mention the fact that first you need to withdraw this money from the bank.

He is thinking to buy an apartment in UAE in this way he has all the papers available to open the new bank accounts with the UAE Residence and utility bills

I don't know how the compliance in UAE is made, but I don't think it's still possible to bring 700k in the country no questions asked, especially knowing how difficult it is now with banks in UAE. And the property prices in UAE are falling, so there can be considerable losses

Consider fiat-crypto-fiat

crypto is always high risk, you'll raise all possible red flags if the amount is higher than 1k. You definitely will be asked for the source of funds.

 

[Tax Cow]

@GrumpyMess

Perhaps you're right about risks associated with crypto. But then again, what legitimate means does the bank or crypto exchange have to prevent you from doing what I suggested? Crypto is not banned in the EU.

OP's client must only say it's a speculative allocation of excess corporate funds into crypto, to hedge against the Euro. If his bank does not understand it, he can open an account with another EU bank that is more crypto-friendly. As long as he can show a contract regarding the source of that 700K, I see no major obstacles.

 

[Tax Cow]

And if EU bans crypto or makes it subject to more due diligence and reporting, he can open a corporate bank account elsewhere.

Why not in the Caucasus? Then all the EU bank sees is a wire to another bank in the name of his company. From there, he can pay out salary and dividend to drain the balance, bypassing crypto altogether. Perhaps the risks are even less this way.

 

[Osleak]

Do you really think it is possible to buy any European property or even a car with a Belize Holding company? What are you going to do if the tax auth confiscate what is bought, so you will start from zero again.

Beside that I really questioning what a real estate will say or the receiver bank if you tell them the buyer is a Belize Holding company and them oney is coming from Transferwise or a bank in Georgia
Theoretical I agree it is not a problem but in real live it smells like huge trouble.

Please read again what i ve wrote and than reply me, i’ve wrote
1) he will buy outside europe
2) the belize company will buy and will own the properties and obviously at the moment of the sale contract (outside eu) if needed the ubo will be showed with all documents.