Is it game over for Panama/Caymans/BVI?

[Candoit]

My question is who in 2022 will ever consider these types of jurisdictions for structuring and offshore banking?

I mean the difficulties of opening and operating bank accouts, bad press, AEOI, having to go in person, CRS, FATCA, bullying from the EU, substance, etc, etc?

 

[Offshr]

My question is who in 2022 will ever consider these types of jurisdictions for structuring and offshore banking?

I mean the difficulties of opening and operating bank accouts, bad press, AEOI, having to go in person, CRS, FATCA, bullying from the EU, substance, etc, etc?

These are mainly assets holding companies and SPVs.

For the part of your assets/ operations that are already offshore this is a perfect choice to reduce transactional costs.

Also incorporation in bvi/cayman provides clarity for co-ownership of business with your partners. It opens possibility to use shareholders agreements in accordance to English law, for example. Also it gives access to fair judgement for those business owners from the countries without proper judiciary system.

Not to mention multinationals that seems to use it forever for huge number of reasons.

 

[Candoit]

True, never thought about these legitimate purposes before

 

[romalo]

Panama works perfectly. No visit needed. Bank accounts, IBAN, credit card. have it all.
See topic:
https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/threads/brokerage-account-for-panama-company.35625/

 

[SoNewToAllShit]

for the average joe it is, for the rich people the game just started.

 

[oldtimer2]

for the average joe it is, for the rich people the game just started.

I guess you are right, for most individuals and modest income earning businesses. I suppose these countries must be reviewed and assessed as an option, like all possible incorporation countries, according to your own purposes for opening the company, type/s of business, source/s of income, barriers, etc etc and overall objectives. These days we know BVI is off the FATF black and grey lists, but is still subject to punitive taxes and black list related problems in some countries. For example, businesses will still apply enhanced customer due diligence and enhanced ongoing monitoring in any business relationship with a person established in a former known high-risk third country or in relation to any relevant transaction where either of the parties to the transaction is established in such a high-risk third country. That alone is unwanted attention and hassles that many people prefer to avoid or simply do not have the resources to manage. We know the BVI has no DTA's, so for payments received from B2B transactions I guess that means most payments will have withholding taxes applied in the source country. Also, I think some countries will apply higher WHT to business transactions because BVI is a low / zero tax country. Some countries apply severe penalty tax rates for funds going to countries such as the BVI. France still includes the BVI on its black list, with some penalty tax rates even up to 75% and can be higher like ~92% if social 'taxes' need to be paid as well. So, like for every jurisdiction, there is much to consider and an experienced international tax advisor for your type and model of business will be needed. For wealthy people and big business no doubt the BVI will continue to have benefits.

 

[myshufflemix]

Panama YES - the other NO, still good and valid.

 

[oldtimer2]

I suppose no country is a complete yes or no without knowing how it fits in your structure and what the business is and before considering so many other relevant questions, and especially what's your budget to explore and make a good choice for your circumstances. Seems some people still buy companies and later try to figure out the nitty gritty details about how they can use them. Others go in with eyes wide open and deep pockets. Oh for the good old days when much of this was very simple and these countries were an option for even more average joe's .

 

[Mike Forman]

I suppose no country is a complete yes or no without knowing how it fits in your structure and what the business is and before considering so many other relevant questions, and especially what's your budget to explore and make a good choice for your circumstances. Seems some people still buy companies and later try to figure out the nitty gritty details about how they can use them. Others go in with eyes wide open and deep pockets. Oh for the good old days when much of this was very simple and these countries were an option for even more average joe's .

BVI and other tropical jurisdictions still are very acceptable in Asia. Using them in the West with some layers still is also possible.

Nonetheless there is little use of them unless they are a part of a good tax structured organization.
The main reasons I wouldn't use a BVI anymore is the Amendment Act 2022. Since 1 January 2023 there is a public register that makes all directors public and all BVI are required to file an annual return.

Only for those two reasons I wouldn't touch those anymore unless you structure it well and use some nominees

 

[Fred]

BVI and other tropical jurisdictions still are very acceptable in Asia. Using them in the West with some layers still is also possible.

Nonetheless there is little use of them unless they are a part of a good tax structured organization.
The main reasons I wouldn't use a BVI anymore is the Amendment Act 2022. Since 1 January 2023 there is a public register that makes all directors public and all BVI are required to file an annual return.

Only for those two reasons I wouldn't touch those anymore unless you structure it well and use some nominees

And other British Overseas Territories will follow.

If you are looking into the caribbean look at least in independent islands like Barbados.

Banking is the biggest issue - even for Wealth Management it's somewhat of hard to find a serious CSP / Law Firm setting up a structure in the Caribbeans with proper nominees which requires additional transaction montoring / 2nd layer compliance from the CSP/Trustee if done in a professional way and getting this then coordinated with a serious bank - all this small islands have almost no demand compared to international offshore financial centers + lacking the possibility to gain permanent residence below 100k USD investment.

Not to start talking about using such islands for an active trading day to day business with retail banking.

 

[wellington]

And other British Overseas Territories will follow.

If you are looking into the caribbean look at least in independent islands like Barbados.

Banking is the biggest issue - even for Wealth Management it's somewhat of hard to find a serious CSP / Law Firm setting up a structure in the Caribbeans with proper nominees which requires additional transaction montoring / 2nd layer compliance from the CSP/Trustee if done in a professional way and getting this then coordinated with a serious bank - all this small islands have almost no demand compared to international offshore financial centers + lacking the possibility to gain permanent residence below 100k USD investment.

Not to start talking about using such islands for an active trading day to day business with retail banking.

Weird "BVI are required to file an annual return." my company was just renewed, and no mention of filing.

Didn't even get any documentation either (renewal receipt and the like).

Ref BVI

Director names publicly available from 1 January 2023​

25 Nov 2022

As part of the BVI’s commitment to the FATF Recommendations on the availability of basic company information via a company registry, from 1 January 2023, the names of directors of BVI companies will be made available by the Registry of Corporate Affairs in the BVI (the Registry) for payment of a fee.​

What we know so far:

• A list of directors will be available via the Registry on payment of a fee of US$75
• If a BVI service provider is approached to obtain the information from the Registry, it is likely they will charge an additional fee
• The information available will be limited to the names of current directors - other personal information such as dates of birth and addresses will not be included
• The details of any former directors will not be available
• It will only be possible to request a list of directors of a particular entity – it will NOT be possible to request a list of entities which a particular person is a director of

What do you need to do?
While we are not yet clear on the exact mechanism for the provision of the list of directors by the Registry it is important that you are aware that the Registry will make available, on request and payment of a fee, the names of the directors as at the date of the search.
Take action now to check your register of directors to ensure the copy held by your registered agent is up to date. Harneys Fiduciary clients can log on to the Harneys Connect Portal to check.
We recognise that some clients may have legitimate concerns about their director names being public, and we would be happy to discuss those with you.
If any changes need to be made to the register of directors, please contact your usual Harneys contact urgently to ensure there is time for the registered agent to file the necessary update at the Registry before the 1 January 2023 effective date.

BVI and other tropical jurisdictions still are very acceptable in Asia. Using them in the West with some layers still is also possible.

Nonetheless there is little use of them unless they are a part of a good tax structured organization.
The main reasons I wouldn't use a BVI anymore is the Amendment Act 2022. Since 1 January 2023 there is a public register that makes all directors public and all BVI are required to file an annual return.

Only for those two reasons I wouldn't touch those anymore unless you structure it well and use some nominees

Sure, Thailand for example is a territorial tax nation, so investments done offshore and returns paid (dividends) the next tax year (or salary) is tax free.

 

[Konstanz]

Yes it works. If you are real tax free country resident.
It depends on your activity. But these companies are still used at large scale.

Let's say you are Cayman Island resident. You have BVI company and provide marketing services through that company. You can still remain 100% tax free.
People are also doing shipping companies, trading oil, crypto companies etc etc

Just look at Binance. Most operations are still processed through their offshore companies. CZ himself has tax free residence.

The problem is for those who want to live in Germany and use offshore company. This is not possible these days.
You have to either pay full tax or do some sacrifice to change lifestyle, change country..

Also different is for US citizens. They still need to pay tax in US.

 

[Don]

Yes it works. If you are real tax free country resident.
It depends on your activity. But these companies are still used at large scale.

Let's say you are Cayman Island resident. You have BVI company and provide marketing services through that company. You can still remain 100% tax free.
People are also doing shipping companies, trading oil, crypto companies etc etc

Just look at Binance. Most operations are still processed through their offshore companies. CZ himself has tax free residence.

The problem is for those who want to live in Germany and use offshore company. This is not possible these days.
You have to either pay full tax or do some sacrifice to change lifestyle, change country..

Also different is for US citizens. They still need to pay tax in US.

I agree and it largely depends on your business model and where your clients are. In some cases, there is no point to use traditional offshore jurisdictions due to implemented withholding taxes on certain types of income, which may negate the potential tax savings.

Overall, recent developments demonstrate that traditional offshore jurisdictions may not be as effective for international tax planning now and in the following years as they once were, and individuals who are considering using these jurisdictions for tax planning purposes should carefully consider the potential risks and benefits.

 

[Konstanz]

Actually people are moving from very complex structures with multiple holdings (this usually does not work anymore) to the old good way - emigration to low tax countries
You just do as simple as possible. Make residence and sit in Caymans. Don't live in your home country.
Thats the only way

 

[Mike Forman]

I

Actually people are moving from very complex structures with multiple holdings (this usually does not work anymore) to the old good way - emigration to low tax countries
You just do as simple as possible. Make residence and sit in Caymans. Don't live in your home country.
Thats the only way

I totally agree on that. If you setup any of those structures and you are a resident in EU, US or any tax aggressive country, it's not a question if tax authorities will go after you but when.

Set up a business in a low tax regime and be a resident in another country with a low tax regime (preferable no taxation on foreign income) is always best, don't live in the country where you setup your low tax or offshore business.

 

[Houdini]

Panama is out of question when it comes to the setup of offshore company and bank account. The Caymans can still be a very good place to park your assets if you get help from a good professional and have plenty of money!

 

[oldtimer2]

Weird "BVI are required to file an annual return." my company was just renewed, and no mention of filing.

Didn't even get any documentation either (renewal receipt and the like).

Ref BVI

Director names publicly available from 1 January 2023​

25 Nov 2022

As part of the BVI’s commitment to the FATF Recommendations on the availability of basic company information via a company registry, from 1 January 2023, the names of directors of BVI companies will be made available by the Registry of Corporate Affairs in the BVI (the Registry) for payment of a fee.​

What we know so far:

• A list of directors will be available via the Registry on payment of a fee of US$75
• If a BVI service provider is approached to obtain the information from the Registry, it is likely they will charge an additional fee
• The information available will be limited to the names of current directors - other personal information such as dates of birth and addresses will not be included
• The details of any former directors will not be available
• It will only be possible to request a list of directors of a particular entity – it will NOT be possible to request a list of entities which a particular person is a director of

What do you need to do?
While we are not yet clear on the exact mechanism for the provision of the list of directors by the Registry it is important that you are aware that the Registry will make available, on request and payment of a fee, the names of the directors as at the date of the search.
Take action now to check your register of directors to ensure the copy held by your registered agent is up to date. Harneys Fiduciary clients can log on to the Harneys Connect Portal to check.
We recognise that some clients may have legitimate concerns about their director names being public, and we would be happy to discuss those with you.
If any changes need to be made to the register of directors, please contact your usual Harneys contact urgently to ensure there is time for the registered agent to file the necessary update at the Registry before the 1 January 2023 effective date.


Sure, Thailand for example is a territorial tax nation, so investments done offshore and returns paid (dividends) the next tax year (or salary) is tax free.

The registered agent for our BVI is Trident Trust (TT). Every year on the TT website we must submit a return about the activities and jurisdiction of economic substance of our BVI company. TT then submits the form to the BVI authority and of course TT charges us a fee.

 

[Fred]

Weird "BVI are required to file an annual return." my company was just renewed, and no mention of filing.

Didn't even get any documentation either (renewal receipt and the like).

Ref BVI

Director names publicly available from 1 January 2023​

25 Nov 2022

As part of the BVI’s commitment to the FATF Recommendations on the availability of basic company information via a company registry, from 1 January 2023, the names of directors of BVI companies will be made available by the Registry of Corporate Affairs in the BVI (the Registry) for payment of a fee.​

What we know so far:

• A list of directors will be available via the Registry on payment of a fee of US$75
• If a BVI service provider is approached to obtain the information from the Registry, it is likely they will charge an additional fee
• The information available will be limited to the names of current directors - other personal information such as dates of birth and addresses will not be included
• The details of any former directors will not be available
• It will only be possible to request a list of directors of a particular entity – it will NOT be possible to request a list of entities which a particular person is a director of

What do you need to do?
While we are not yet clear on the exact mechanism for the provision of the list of directors by the Registry it is important that you are aware that the Registry will make available, on request and payment of a fee, the names of the directors as at the date of the search.
Take action now to check your register of directors to ensure the copy held by your registered agent is up to date. Harneys Fiduciary clients can log on to the Harneys Connect Portal to check.
We recognise that some clients may have legitimate concerns about their director names being public, and we would be happy to discuss those with you.
If any changes need to be made to the register of directors, please contact your usual Harneys contact urgently to ensure there is time for the registered agent to file the necessary update at the Registry before the 1 January 2023 effective date.


Sure, Thailand for example is a territorial tax nation, so investments done offshore and returns paid (dividends) the next tax year (or salary) is tax free.

It depends on the financial year - not the fiscal year.

So if your Registered Agend in BVI is serious all this stuff will come to you as well during this year.