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Question Is there anything good that can be done in Italy or is best avoided?

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spagetifressa

New member
I live in UK but I have an EU passport. The idea of leaving this miserable rainy land and going and live in Italy has been tempting me for some time, but then brain takes over heart and I am aware that opening a business in Italy is a suicide, as the state will overtax me and let's not talk about Mafia...

So, do we all agree that Italy should be discarded or is there anything good out of it? Either as a resident or a non-resident?
 

azb1

Mentor Group Gold
"overtax "
Flat tax in Italy for you.

"Mafia"
Every country has mafia one or another form
 

Martin Everson

Offshore Retiree
Staff member
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
So, do we all agree that Italy should be discarded or is there anything good out of it? Either as a resident or a non-resident?

You can try using the following program.


Or if you have €100k to blow each year then apply for their resident non-domicile program smi(&%

I think the first program will allow you some years to explore living and working in Italy before being financially raped :confused:
 

EuroKiss

Active Member
I live in UK but I have an EU passport. The idea of leaving this miserable rainy land and going and live in Italy has been tempting me for some time, but then brain takes over heart and I am aware that opening a business in Italy is a suicide, as the state will overtax me and let's not talk about Mafia...

So, do we all agree that Italy should be discarded or is there anything good out of it? Either as a resident or a non-resident?
I am Italian. Big problem is tax system. “Mafia” is right now more Hollywood folklore than a real thing, unless you are willing to live in some towns in the South you won’t have any problem. Unfortunely the rich part of the country - where you can prospere with a good biz and have great services - has a weather not so different from UK (even worst).
 

manukahoney

New member
Every Italian I talked to while living in London was complaining about their homeland, in particular how bureaucratic and ineffective the whole government infrastructure is and how much easier is for them to run business in the UK.

I also have friend who have second homes in Italy (mostly in Tuscany) who are very fond of the lifestyle and love spending several months a year there.

Why not give it a try and spend some time there, staying away from tourist places and living like a local? You have EU passport and airbnbing less than 183 days will in general not trigger any tax complications for you. If you like it - then consider a relocation.
 

kkein

Active Member
I am Italian. Big problem is tax system. “Mafia” is right now more Hollywood folklore than a real thing, unless you are willing to live in some towns in the South you won’t have any problem. Unfortunely the rich part of the country - where you can prospere with a good biz and have great services - has a weather not so different from UK (even worst).
Italy is currently ruled by mafia and freemasonry (approximately the same thing).
I have recently seen on google news about some guy from the south that the previous government, apparently also from the south, appointed for handling covid emergency that managed to spend next to 1€ per breathing mask ordered from China, for a grand total of over 1B€ and inevitably got busted distributing millions to the involved persons.
Well, this guy has apparently been investigated just for misappropriation.
Yeah, that sounds like the whole country is Hollywood
 

Allisgood

New member
Italy is currently ruled by mafia and freemasonry (approximately the same thing).
I have recently seen on google news about some guy from the south that the previous government, apparently also from the south, appointed for handling covid emergency that managed to spend next to 1€ per breathing mask ordered from China, for a grand total of over 1B€ and inevitably got busted distributing millions to the involved persons.
Well, this guy has apparently been investigated just for misappropriation.
Yeah, that sounds like the whole country is Hollywood
Nothing specific to Italy. That can happen anywhere. Just google mask scandal 2021 in Germany.
 

Golden Fleece

Active Member
In Italy, you can buy a home for one Euro (sort of).
 

spagetifressa

New member
In Italy, you can buy a home for one Euro (sort of).
Not really a business investment, is it?
 

challenge

Trusted
forget it if you want to stay sane. typed from my Italian villa.
If you want to bootstrap and you're short on money, forget it even more.
Startup costs are huge if you need an ltd, taxes and pension contributions are high, paid in advance and based on "supposed income", even if you have 0 invoices, write off laws are way tighter than other countries, you must pay the notary for the incorporation too and for every statute modification, stamps on every page of the books and many of these medieval tricks... There are too many limiting rules.
I discourage everyone thinking of doing business in Italy, unless you have lots of money already, and you are big enough to have a legal real structure to profit shift elsewhere.
It's cheap to live in many remote areas, so maybe that compensates for low income self employed people.
But as far as real businesses costs, once you factor all the issues and surprises you will get down the road, the taxes and what you get out of it, maybe it would be better to incorporate in the "expensive" neighbouring Switzerland.
Also selling the business is very hard unless you get it really in the news. You really have to sell it at discount as nobody would buy it.
People use their businesses like a personal bank there. They try, sometime very creatively, to write off everything to stay afloat, having a very low profit so to limit the effect of the high tax rates, and stay competitive against other countries .
What happens is that it works for years, everyone does it so you think your good, then one day the tax agency writes you and your dreams fall down.

Now if you're ruthless and do business illegally? that's another matter. You could well profit there, justice is a joke for starters. :)

Actually that's a common and chronic problem in all the mediterranean countries
what's the solution? It's a dog chasing its tail... they raise fines, add more complex laws to comply with, lower tax exemption limits ... thinking they get more taxes...
what really happens is:
- small biz will fail, once they figure they are getting raped = state gets less taxes,
- medium/big will find ways around those = state gets maybe the same as before,
- "off the books" businesses will give a f*ck and continue to prosper = state gets 0 taxes
- real money makers entrepreneurs just move away, plenty of italians in eastern europe, switzerland, czechia, bulgaria etc.

As i said I own a villa in italy but live elsewhere.
I'm still forced to pay property/council tax even I'm not living there year round... you know "for the services you get: streets, roads etc".
- the street lighting is not working. I have reported, they told me "ok will tell to the guy"... months later: "yeah i told the guy", months later again "ok stop reporting this, we know it doesn't work, just stop. It'll be fixed soon". Today after a year, still not working, dark as it could be :)
- the road has holes like syria after us bombings. I've reported it, just asked about and the guy told me very openly he was going to run for mayor, he asked me to vote for him the next election and they'll fix it. I told him i don't vote here, I then was told very politely to fuck off then, and stop wasting his time. It's a crazy place! smi(&%

Get the best out of it and live elsewhere, even close like in the "shitty and corrupted" malta. There's a reason if even the italian mafia moved to malta lol You can flight to italy as much as you want and pay close to 0 tax. and you get the best of both worlds.
 

Admin

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Elite Member
So, do we all agree that Italy should be discarded or is there anything good out of it? Either as a resident or a non-resident?
from your nickname here I feel you already in advance do not like Italy ;)
 

kkein

Active Member
Why post a thread if you do not bother checking the information? There is an entire podcast about exactly how to buy these properties, including how to build an AirBNB income stream from them.
As far as i heard (and that's also pretty much logical), these are 99% properties that nobody want. Like needing tons of fixup, somewhere in the middle of nowhere, etc.
If there's anything good, rest assured it would be already taken, like for women.
AKA you better forget about it.
 

Golden Fleece

Active Member
As far as i heard (and that's also pretty much logical), these are 99% properties that nobody want. Like needing tons of fixup, somewhere in the middle of nowhere, etc.
Someone else who did not bother to click on the link. Yes, the young locals do not want them because they moved to the big cities for work. But the homes are great for AirBNB for tourists or vacation homes for foreigners.

Yes, the one ones selling for one Euro need a huge amount of work. So, do not to buy those units.
The key, however, is not to buy those one Euro homes (which may require 100,000 Euros for repair), but to buy those in much better condition that sell for 5,000 to 20,000 Euros and that require only modest repairs. So, for 20,000 to 30,000 Euros you can refurbish apartments in quaint, picturesque villages in Italy . . . .
 

spagetifressa

New member
Someone else who did not bother to click on the link. Yes, the young locals do not want them because they moved to the big cities for work. But the homes are great for AirBNB for tourists or vacation homes for foreigners.

Yes, the one ones selling for one Euro need a huge amount of work. So, do not to buy those units.
AirBnb is not really a good investment.
 
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