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Life after Georgia - Best low-tax country within EU

That was I was asking about the rent: Apartments of that size seem to be listed anywhere between EUR 600 and EUR 1'000.- which I found very reasonable for Andorra.
So, please give an update once you signed the rental contract
Just checked in with an expert and was told that the rental market is pretty hot. Listings on internet are completely inaccurate and often years old. Rents are higher but do not cross the 1k per month outside the main city. The main problem is getting an apartment in the first place, getting there would likely involve staying in a hotel for some time getting everything in order. On top of that, Andorra has now raised the bond you have to pay as collateral (interest-free) to the government to 50,000 EUR. They are tightening who is coming in, essentially.
 
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Just checked in with an expert and was told that the rental market is pretty hot. Listings on internet are completely inaccurate and often years old. Rents are higher but do not cross the 1k per month outside the main city. The main problem is getting an apartment in the first place, getting there would likely involve staying in a hotel for some time getting everything in order. On top of that, Andorra has now raised the bond you have to pay as collateral (interest-free) to the government to 50,000 EUR. They are tightening who is coming in, essentially.
Thanks for the interesting info.
If these conditions make Andorra unattractive or too complicated for you, try Bulgaria.
How much was the bond before the change?
 
Thanks for the interesting info.
If these conditions make Andorra unattractive or too complicated for you, try Bulgaria.
How much was the bond before the change?
The bond was 15.000 EUR before the change. To be honest I find Andorra very attractive, but I'd rather settle somewhere else for now as I believe the housing market will come down over the coming years. Maybe that is misguided, maybe not, but one of the (minor) reasons I am leaving my own country is the ridiculous housing market, so I would rather not buy property at inflated prices due to low rates if I can sit it out and make good money elsewhere. Plus, I don't really have the time nor am I willing to take the risk to sit there in that country and be forced to make a bad deal due to lack of time / willingness to wait for a better property.

The money for a 50.000 EUR bond without interest could instead be invested in a nice stock either now or in six months or in non-inflated property. I am kind of trying to see where in Europe property prices will fall because of climate-change and where they will rise. Anyway, when I get to the point 50k is play-money for me, I will seriously consider Andorra. Right now, I am too focused on channeling earnings into the stock- and cryptomarket.

I am exploring Bulgaria, but currently set on Cyprus. I could do mountain trips to the Caucasus easily from there, and I've honestly been fascinated by the island due to its history for some time. They also seem to be quite lax in terms of tax enforcement, which I like, and the place is supposedly filled with British who always fancy a drink or two and whose company I usually enjoy. On top of that, the cuisine (very important) looks like a magical blend of flavors and I doubt the local alcohol will be tough on the tongue.

The temperature is not ideal, but the space you get with a decent property means I would not suffocate. 1300 to 1800 will already let you rent a nice house / villa with a garden and pool, this might seem like more than Andorra but the social security payments are so incredibly low in Cyprus that it is in fact just as “expensive” as an Andorran 1 bedroom.

I could set it a space like that up as my home combined with office / server room depending on the power and would be ideal. The only thing I am worried about is maybe being treated suspiciously by the bank or government, but in my experience, if you dress charming, talk the talk and most importantly have a passport from a rich Western country the wheels will be greased to some extent.

All of these factors have me to think my quality of life will be significantly higher in Cyprus than in Bulgaria, which is why I am now exploring the possibilities there. If you disagree with some of the points I listed, I would be very interested to know, of course as I have never been to Cyprus nor Bulgaria.
 
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If you disagree with some of the points I listed, I would be very interested to know, of course as I have never been to Cyprus nor Bulgaria.
You should go where you feel comfortable.

From lifestyle and people you can not compare Cyprus to Bulgaria. The former is an island which mainly serves tourists. The latter is a "normal" Eastern European country. The difference couldn't be any bigger. The result is that your budget will stretch at least three times further in Bulgaria than it does in Cyprus.
Since you initially wanted to settle in Georgia, than in Andorra (all because of mountains and nature), Cyprus does not exactly fit in.
 
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what is the current story/state with georgia?
do you get taxed in case you have offshore company (ibc in seychelles for example), and you are the owner/director, and you transfer dividends?

I am not qualified to give tax advice and my strong advice is to consult multiple tax professionals and also do your own research because there are nuances in the law and its enforcement...

In principle it has a lot to do with active versus passive income. There is no CFC but there is PE. So if you have shares in a company that is managed offshore and does its activity offshore, then Georgia won't normally want to tax it. If you are managing or working for your offshore company then it it likely to be taxable in Georgia. A highly experienced tax auditor will be able to navigate you through the grey areas.
 
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You should go where you feel comfortable.

From lifestyle and people you can not compare Cyprus to Bulgaria. The former is an island which mainly serves tourists. The latter is a "normal" Eastern European country. The difference couldn't be any bigger. The result is that your budget will stretch at least three times further in Bulgaria than it does in Cyprus.
Since you initially wanted to settle in Georgia, than in Andorra (all because of mountains and nature), Cyprus does not exactly fit in.
Completely true in terms of the nature. But as a freelancer and small-business owner, I don't have a ton of free time. Nor do I spend a lot of time and money on leisure. In terms of budget, what are the differences if you get groceries and go out for dinner twice or thrice a week? And in terms of real estate, Cyprus seems to be in a nice spot too. Looking at the prices of going out and the supermarket, Cyprus is somewhat comparable to Spain, which is about 25% as cheap as where I live now. I seriously doubt my budget would stretch 3x as far in Bulgaria. If it really was that much cheaper I would probably just start ordering my food every day which is how I ended up spending like $25 per day on food in the Philippines.

Although Andorra would be completely perfect in the sense that I could enter the mountains whenever I would want, Cyprus has some major other perks, which I will list below. And keep in mind that the extra costs Andorra imposes on you monthly are bigger than Cyprus. I actually think Andorra is the more expensive place once you consider those things. 12% of average monthly earnings is a lot when you are young and healthy like me. And if I calculate the indirect costs from the 50k bond, it is easily like 200 EUR per month. That money is sitting in Altria right now, earning me an 7% dividend, taking it out would be a double whammy.

Cyprus still has way more nature than where I live, you have to imagine that I have been a city-dweller for a long time and basically have only seen concrete for years (apart from my stints in foreign countries).

This is of course completely subjective, but the ability to get British food occasionally (half the time) is a big perk for me. This might sound dumb, but when I am in Marbella or Alicante I always alternate between Spanish and British food. If I can not get my “fix” I usually start buying overly expensive luxury food which, in terms of budget, negates any factor by which a country can be cheaper in terms of groceries. The British have invented some kind of brilliant system that exports their entire culture across the world, and does it without making you feel like it's a total fake. Again, highly subjective, but after weeks in a foreign country McDonald's / American food won't soothe my longing for something Western, an English Breakfast or just pure grub is what I want and need. I am 100% sure that after two weeks in Bulgaria or Romania, I would already start to long for Western-European food. So huge perk.

I am currently looking at Paphos, and it seems to have somewhat of a rich British pensioner vibe, which is again kind of perfect in the beginning. Working hard all week to then watch football in some dark sports pub is exactly what I want. Plus, all the time and energy that will go into relocating everything will have me way too busy the first 6 months to do nightlife in the sense of clubs.

The more I talk about Cyprus and read about it, the more I think it is the perfect place for me. I spend all my life in the big city and don't really want to live in a large city for the coming years.

My goal is also not to work less and spend more time on “fun”. I am looking for a place where I can branch out my two businesses, working like 50/60 hours per week, not having to spend too much time on how the regulator will respond. Then after the day is done, just sit outside and calm down instead of having to listen to traffic. Bulgaria would probably have me ending up in Sofia. For business, I will do some crypto stuff too, which I want to use offshore companies for. Cyprus seems just perfect for that because you can just take out the profits as dividend, and they have BTC ATM's as well.

Another perk is that it looks like there are towns that are peaceful with some nature without living in a town filled with “not from round here are ya city boy” type of people. I think trying to live in a town or small city in Bulgaria or Romania would be impossible for someone like me. In my current home, basic stuff like running is already problematic due to traffic and crowds.

The concern about tourists is very valid, but during the high summer I will likely not be in Cyprus anyway, so no problem at all. And even if they are in Cyprus all the time, it is not like they will be hanging around my apartment / house to bother me.
 
I have read that Andorra is a bit old fashioned with its company structure arrangements and the effort and cost to do things with them. I spent a few days there and yes the food is really good... I know others live there permanently and are very happily! but they complain about the cost and effort to do simple company admin changes that are a breeze in most countries but require notaries and considerable cost and effort / time in Andorra. If you don't need an Andorran company then you can probably avoid all that. Some might ask Cyprus vs Malta - oh well, at least Cyprus has less population density. I read the government can be a bit of a cowboy In Cyprus and seems to be the case in most of the Eastern / Med / Caucasus countries... so as a one year or maybe a bit longer stopover as you build capital its probably okay (but I have no direct experience of Cyprus so this is just my thoughts about it). In all these countries having your sit strategy / plan worked out is probably just as important as understanding what you are getting into (certainly tax wise) when you first go there. Just to revert to Malta for a second... their nomad visa lets you stay 6 or 12 months with no tax on your income levied in malta - but no mountains, streams / rivers, etc etc. but can be okay if you like diving.
 
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Just use ING... and it's simple (not like the west where they breath down your neck every time you deposit/withdraw).
Romania, although Romanian banking is kinda trash but can be fixed with EMIs

Hi guys,

Last year I've traveled through Georgia and absolutely loved it, sadly the large influx of Russians and geographical distance from Western-Europe has sort of made me rethink my initial plan to move and set-up my IT businesses there. I make good money working as a freelancer 80K+ and have side-gigs that generate about 30/40K for minimal work (I want to scale those once I am tax-free). What initially drew me to Georgia was the mountains and the incredibly cheap housing (allowing me to save up for housing in my home country and invest money in stocks) and option to live there for a year and more for about 1% tax while owning a property.

I've visited Georgia and absolutely loved it, especially the Svaneti mountain region. I would love to live in Batumi and be able to take weekend trips to Mestia. I also liked the people and the culture, basically everything although the food got bland after a while there was great Thai food in a lot of places as well as Chinese. Permanently settling however would mean annoying flights with a layover in Poland every time if I want to visit friends or family which is just not ideal for me. On top of that I have IT equipment that I would much prefer to move by car or train from Western Europe. On top of that the Russian influx has made the local populace significantly less friendly which is kind of a deal-breaker. I does not help that my name is really common in Russia although I am from Western Europe.

I was hoping to get a tip or advice from somebody here as I have now been reading and reading for two years but am kind of struck by analysis-paralysis. Estonia seems nice but only allow you to stay for one year which is not what I want, I basically want to buy a decently sized apartment and set up my business inside there. Move all equipment there and stay for more than 1 year for like 260 days per year.

What I am looking for in a country is the following:

- Decent internet-speed, preferably 100 Mb/s
- Preferably mountainous (or in the vicinity of mountains), I love mountains!
- Preferably has cold winters, heat is okay but no Asian humidity / perpetual summer.
- Ability to walk or cycle in cities - size of city does not matter
- Max income tax of 10 / 15%
- Banking that won't pose huge problems or sleepless nights over corrupt officials / bankers / payment processing shenanigans.

All my income is foreign-sourced. Portugal has been looking interesting for me, Montenegro looks cool, Serbia never struck me as particularly friendly to foreigners. The draw of Yerevan is strong but has the same problem Georgia has (which can be overcome but still). Any advice or direction would be greatly appreciated!
Great feed.

Thinking hard about moves currently.

Tossed up on Carib (don't really fancy), Asia (bored), Aus (don'y really fancy), or Europe (swiss is our home there but tax is high), would go to the UK (home) but tax and the country is fucked.

Never thought of some of the places here so it was pleasant surprise to see the deep discussions on.
 
I have read that Andorra is a bit old fashioned with its company structure arrangements and the effort and cost to do things with them. I spent a few days there and yes the food is really good... I know others live there permanently and are very happily! but they complain about the cost and effort to do simple company admin changes that are a breeze in most countries but require notaries and considerable cost and effort / time in Andorra. If you don't need an Andorran company then you can probably avoid all that. Some might ask Cyprus vs Malta - oh well, at least Cyprus has less population density. I read the government can be a bit of a cowboy In Cyprus and seems to be the case in most of the Eastern / Med / Caucasus countries... so as a one year or maybe a bit longer stopover as you build capital its probably okay (but I have no direct experience of Cyprus so this is just my thoughts about it). In all these countries having your sit strategy / plan worked out is probably just as important as understanding what you are getting into (certainly tax wise) when you first go there. Just to revert to Malta for a second... their nomad visa lets you stay 6 or 12 months with no tax on your income levied in malta - but no mountains, streams / rivers, etc etc. but can be okay if you like diving.
I meant to say: have your exit plan / strategy ready

Is it possible you could move every 3 or 6 months with your kind of business/es? Some nationalities can exploit bilateral treaties to overcome the general 90 in 180 day stay rule in the Schengen zone. For example Australia has bilateral treaties with Italy France etc etc. Basically it means the person can stay in such countries for 90 days irrespective of any time previously spent in the Schengen zone. Other options include France will give you a 6 month tourist long stay visa if you have enough cash in the bank. Check when each country starts to count days - I have read Italy is nice if you arrive in the second half of the year. Keep a light footprint in these countries so there is nothing of substance for the tax authorities to target locally. Stay in each country for less days than when local tax residency kicks in based on length / days of stay - and keep a residency permit in a low tax country to show as your permanent residency. Georgia could work for that - pay some tax in georgia but be on long term holidays moving around. As I indicated above this kind of model might only suit some kinds of nomad / location independent businesses and all depends on the individuals circumstances... but could be interesting to explore as possible options in early business development phase if you want to live in attractive EU Schengen countries.
 
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