Make your vote, Bitcoin will hit 18K now?

[fortunespeculator]

The very definition of a non sequitur.

If the property is real estate it would be valued in dollars not btc as far as i understand.And nobody would be looking at their property price everyday anyway.Even at the height of the 2008 financial crisis people who bought property with fiat lost as their property prices came down crashing so what is the logic you are trying to get to??Whether BTC or Fiat if you did not buy in the value zone there is a good chance of losses unless you have good luck or a trend that makes up for your folly of getting it timed wrong.

 

[lacomaco]

1) Bitcoin failed as an alternative electronic currency, which was its originally intended purpose (see the original whitepaper).

2) After re-inventing itself, Bitcoin then failed as a store of value uncorrelated with traditional financial markets.

Bitcoin's plunge spells trouble for the dot-com era entrepreneur who went all in

A $4 billion bet on bitcoin by software firm MicroStrategy is in jeopardy after the cryptocurrency's recent plunge.

www.cnbc.com

What will the Bitcoin cult promote as Bitcoin's next re-invented purpose? Perhaps a new poll is needed.

Now, this is really worrisome:

https://www.newsmax.com/finance/streettalk/conbase-bitcoin-cryptocurrency-layoffs/2022/06/14/id/1074304/

Why would a crypto exchange slash its workforce by nearly twenty percent -- unless it was also participating in dangerous crypto trading? During an immense period of volatility, a crypto exchange (or any other trading house) should be rolling in cash from the increased trading volumes and the increased revenue from trading fees. In other words, volatile market conditions should add to the profitability of any trading exchange, not reduce it. Something does not smell right.

I think it is not trading but lending where they might lost a lot, due to counterparty defíult or forced liquidation

 

[Golden Fleece]

Why should I care about how many unwanted USD I will get for something that I don’t want to sell?

Again, a classic non sequitur. I could say the same thing about USD or any other currency. There is zero logic in your statement.

If you were forced to sell today, you would receive 60% less Bitcoin. That is a fact.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Again, a classic non sequitur. I could say the same thing about USD or any other currency. There is zero logic in your statement.

If you were forced to sell today, you would receive 60% less Bitcoin. That is a fact.

Sorry I am not smart enough to understand this. Live long and happy with your USD

 

[Golden Fleece]

If the property is real estate it would be valued in dollars not btc as far as i understand.

That is the exact opposite of the argument that he made.

He stated: "I don’t have fiat." (Post #53) He also stated: "I don’t need to do that [change into fiat]."

 

[ih8socialism]

Again, a classic non sequitur. I could say the same thing about USD or any other currency. There is zero logic in your statement.

If you were forced to sell today, you would receive 60% less Bitcoin. That is a fact.

If he is selling for BTC and not for fiat why would he receive 60% less?

If he lists the property for 25 BTC, he will receive 25 BTC even after the crash, they are just worth less in FIAT ?!

 

[fortunespeculator]

That is the exact opposite of the argument that he made.

He stated: "I don’t have fiat." (Post #53) He also stated: "I don’t need to do that [change into fiat]."

First argument - read he can always sell his property for Dollars even if he does not have any dollars right now.

Second argument - He doesnt need to change to Fiat because either like most of us he is not going to sell his property and buy it on a daily basis.Or he may have other investments which he can use for paying his regular expenses so he does not need it.eg He may have enough Gold stored in Bullion star and holding a gold card that allows him to pay his expenses from that or something similar.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

That is the exact opposite of the argument that he made.

He stated: "I don’t have fiat." (Post #53) He also stated: "I don’t need to do that [change into fiat]."

As my business mostly still receive fiat, I use a part of that fiat for fun, the rest to buy crypto.

 

[Golden Fleece]

First argument - read he can always sell his property for Dollars even if he does not have any dollars right now.

I responded to his argument, i.e., that he does not use fiat. Changing the parameters of the debate is utterly irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

I responded to his argument, i.e., that he does not use fiat. Changing the parameters of the debate is utterly irrelevant to the discussion.

I do when I have no alternatives, for example few strippers have a QR code tattooed on the ankle.

 

[fortunespeculator]

I do when I have no alternatives, for example few strippers have a QR code tattooed on the ankle.

Ha Ha Ha lolz

I responded to his argument, i.e., that he does not use fiat. Changing the parameters of the debate is utterly irrelevant to the discussion.

On that note weren't you changing parameters when you said you were an investor but were looking at the hourly chart?

 

[Golden Fleece]

On that note weren't you changing parameters when you said you were an investor but were looking at the hourly chart?

I already explained that. Go re-read my post. An hourly chart is helpful for determining whether the price of two assets are now running in correlation (a measure of how investments move relative to one another).

 

[fortunespeculator]

I responded to his argument, i.e., that he does not use fiat. Changing the parameters of the debate is utterly irrelevant to the discussion.

I didn't change any parameters though- people can completely live without fiat if the don't want to.

I already explained that. Go re-read my post. An hourly chart is helpful for determining whether the price of two assets are now running in correlation (a measure of how investments move relative to one another).

Right now something has a correlation doesnt mean that in the future also they will have correlation.
Having said that if stock markets have correlation with crypto then , when they go back to a bull market the crypto market should also go back to a bull market .However as per you they shouldn't because you say that they don't have any intrinsic value. Even mobiles don't have any value if not used for communicating and taking photos. Likewise maybe bitcoins don't have value apart from sending money anywhere to anyone and partly keeping you anonymous and outside the state's control, intervention and its ease of you. But that should be enough of a utility for the product- it means a lot for freedom seekers from the states control.

 

[maxmoney]

And so 1 dollar, euro, chf bill is still 1. What’s the point if you need to change it into fiat ? You have less and less fiat.
Or in the perfect crypto world inflation doesn’t exist? Lol

what do you mean, you can't exchange your BTC to FIAT right now? that's not true, use kraken and you can do it!!

 

[extremedox101]

im pessimistic now seeing bitcoin below 25-22k mark . each time bitcoin enter bear market it does effect my bushiness gross sales .

 

[backpacker]

im pessimistic now seeing bitcoin below 25-22k mark . each time bitcoin enter bear market it does effect my bushiness gross sales .

Interesting. What do you sell that the price of BTC has such an influence on your business?

 

[Golden Fleece]

Having said that if stock markets have correlation with crypto then , when they go back to a bull market the crypto market should also go back to a bull market.

Yes, that is correct. So, when the NASDAQ hit its bottom in September 2002 it then took the NASDAQ fifteen years (until November 2017) to recover to its previous (February 2000) all-time high.

NASDAQ Composite - 45 Year Historical Chart

Interactive chart of the NASDAQ Composite stock market index since 1971. Historical data is inflation-adjusted using the headline CPI and each data point represents the month-end closing value. The current month is updated on an hourly basis with today's latest value.

www.macrotrends.net

In other words, now that Bitcoin is correlated to the stock markets, you now need to know the history of the stock markets to know the potential recovery time of the price of Bitcoin if a sustained bear market occurs.

I doubt that most Bitcoin holders are patient enough to wait a few years, much less fifteen years -- especially if they purchased near the market top.

Stocks are backed by real assets, i.e., real running businesses, so long-term investors are patient. Bitcoin is only backed by mere faith and, for most people, faith is easily lost over a long time period.

 

[troubled soul]

Main purpose of Bitcoin is to eliminate Third party in financial industry like Bank, Broker etc.
Due to greed of people, Bitcoin turn into casino and money laundering hub. Most funny part is the this exchange like coinbase,binance etc. If you need them to use crypto than what is the need of crypto. What's wrong with traditional Bank ???? Most elite tech rich people does not focus on Crypto adaptation. IN 2022 how many main stream people are not using crypto for day to day to activates. There will be new coin and new exchange appear everyday but people use it is less. Due to lack to adaptation , It turn into the Digital Gold. It just kill the soul of bitcoin. It never meant to be Digital Gold.

Imagine a World Where you buy stock without broker, where central bank can adopt block chain and everybody can buy Gov BOnd without any broker or middle man. Whole life can be run without middleman. Forget the price and Digital Gold thing just try to understand the real Blockchain adaptation can done the miracle.

There are many government welfare scheme, Due to corruption , the needy people does not get benefit. using blockchain you can eliminate corruption . By direct transfer money to needy people.
Big company can eliminate whole financial department.

p.s. I am not expert. just give some thought hope you like it

 

[maxmoney]

Main purpose of Bitcoin is to eliminate Third party in financial industry like Bank, Broker etc.

at that is exactly what will keep this coin alive for the next century.

 

[fortunespeculator]

Yes, that is correct. So, when the NASDAQ hit its bottom in September 2002 it then took the NASDAQ fifteen years (until November 2017) to recover to its previous (February 2000) all-time high.

NASDAQ Composite - 45 Year Historical Chart

Interactive chart of the NASDAQ Composite stock market index since 1971. Historical data is inflation-adjusted using the headline CPI and each data point represents the month-end closing value. The current month is updated on an hourly basis with today's latest value.

www.macrotrends.net

In other words, now that Bitcoin is correlated to the stock markets, you now need to know the history of the stock markets to know the potential recovery time of the price of Bitcoin if a sustained bear market occurs.

I doubt that most Bitcoin holders are patient enough to wait a few years, much less fifteen years -- especially if they purchased near the market top.

Stocks are backed by real assets, i.e., real running businesses, so long-term investors are patient. Bitcoin is only backed by mere faith and, for most people, faith is easily lost over a long time period.

Well after the 1929 crash also the stock markets (u.s) took more than 20 years i think to cross the top of 1929.But the commodities and different stocks had their bull markets in between- check charts.Bitcoin is not an index like the NASDAQ. And because btc has a utility and can be used like liquid gold for exchanging money it will be here to stay.Yes -when the next bull market for crypto will arrive is anybodys guess and i dont have a crystal ball and most HODLRS will throw in the towel maybe at the bottom.However BTC /crypto are not going away anytime soon.Rather i think crypto will become even more mainstream and get adopted in our lives like mobile phones have.Any new tech that makes your life easy will stay.So the next bull market whenever that happens is going to be bigger than this.Specifically for the major coins.This was just a trailer.Just like people who put money in penny stocks in the hopes of getting rich dont ever get rich -even here people who will put money in s**t coins will die poor.But the major coins will stay - and you will definitely have a fantastic bull market in them again.

Coming to your real assets part might i remind you that company stocks go to zero when they become bankrupt ( all your blah blah hypothesis can nosedive with one wrong decision from the company and nobody can know when it takes that nosedive)and even oil went into negative territory.

Hence the only thing important is whether there are more buyers than sellers or vice versa - because all the hypothesis in the world is not going to put money in your pocket unless confirmed by price action.