Monaco 'on the cheap'....

[Barney2201]

Random question.....

The biggest issue with a Monaco move seems to be getting a bank account and depositing 1 million+, no bank account means no tax number....

Could you rent an apartment but still be resident of somewhere else which is 0% tax (I am resident of Sark), live in Monaco most of the year (assuming I get a French visa due to Brexit).

Would there be any risk, and could you still run a company from there which is located in an offshore / low tax location?

I know many people will say why Monaco, I've spent a lot of time there (run an events company), have previously done F1 hospitality and we work on the yachts a fair bit so being on the ground could also be good for new business. In addition I have a UK business and the Nice to London run is one of the easiest. It's also very well connected for the mountains in winter and an easy drive to most of Europe.

 

[CyprusLawyer101]

Random question.....

The biggest issue with a Monaco move seems to be getting a bank account and depositing 1 million+, no bank account means no tax number....

Could you rent an apartment but still be resident of somewhere else which is 0% tax (I am resident of Sark), live in Monaco most of the year (assuming I get a French visa due to Brexit).

Would there be any risk, and could you still run a company from there which is located in an offshore / low tax location?

I know many people will say why Monaco, I've spent a lot of time there (run an events company), have previously done F1 hospitality and we work on the yachts a fair bit so being on the ground could also be good for new business. In addition I have a UK business and the Nice to London run is one of the easiest. It's also very well connected for the mountains in winter and an easy drive to most of Europe.

I am not sure your question is clear.
You ask whether having an apartment in Monaco and be a tax resident of another country with zero tax and having an offshore company creates any risk? Is this the question

 

[Barney2201]

Sorry poor wording..... More of a case of would being tax resident of one country (tax free country), live in Monaco and then have an offshore company is a low tax destination be an option to allow me to reside in Monaco most of the year but not 'have' to become Monaco resident for tax purposes as I'm already resident of another tax free country which does no have a minimum resident days per year requirement.

I know a few people have considered Monaco but if you look at previous posts one of the biggest hurdles is the bank account opening. This could be a solution to Monaco living with the need for a Monaco account.

Appreciate it's expensive, but if you know the place you will also know there is some hidden value (comparable to London).

 

[wellington]

Monaco is a hell hole full of Tourists, what makes you want to go there?

 

[Barney2201]

I own an events company and already do work on the yachts and some work during F1 so know the place pretty well. Living there could be good for business.

Looking for a low tax solution within a 2hr commute back to London which is not a land locked former Eastern Block state, with decent weather and the options are very limited…. Also considered Andorra but the commute back and forth via BCN is the killer….

 

[Sols]

Not sure if you want to run a business from Monaco. There is a 25% corporate tax bill waiting for you if 25% of the company's comes from activities taking place within Monaco. As far as I know, there is not much guidance out there on how those 25% are calculated. But if you are working from home from an apartment in Monaco and spending more than 25% of the year in Monaco, you might be taking a risk that this rule gets enforced.

The gist of it is you don't go to Monaco to run a business. You go to Monaco to benefit from company other people are running day to day somewhere else.

If you go for the French visa route, I'd make sure to double and triple check you don't risk becoming tax resident in France as well.

 

[Barney2201]

Great advice so plan B…. Whatever that is!

 

[Fred]

Sorry poor wording..... More of a case of would being tax resident of one country (tax free country), live in Monaco and then have an offshore company is a low tax destination be an option to allow me to reside in Monaco most of the year but not 'have' to become Monaco resident for tax purposes as I'm already resident of another tax free country which does no have a minimum resident days per year requirement.

I know a few people have considered Monaco but if you look at previous posts one of the biggest hurdles is the bank account opening. This could be a solution to Monaco living with the need for a Monaco account.

Appreciate it's expensive, but if you know the place you will also know there is some hidden value (comparable to London).

Can only comment on the Banking a client did share with me recently - can imagine the client does something similar what you are looking to do.

He did setup with us last year in Dubai and established through Julius Baer in Dubai a Banking Relationship with there Monaco Branch - this was basically his requirement to bank with them to have the option to move to Monaco.

For my understanding - didn't confirmed with him - he lives in the winter in Dubai and in the summer in Monaco - he runs the business through the Dubai Company and has nothing setup in Monaco beside of a tax free Residence next to the Dubai Residence.

 

[boy20hki]

Can only comment on the Banking a client did share with me recently - can imagine the client does something similar what you are looking to do.

He did setup with us last year in Dubai and established through Julius Baer in Dubai a Banking Relationship with there Monaco Branch - this was basically his requirement to bank with them to have the option to move to Monaco.

For my understanding - didn't confirmed with him - he lives in the winter in Dubai and in the summer in Monaco - he runs the business through the Dubai Company and has nothing setup in Monaco beside of a tax free Residence next to the Dubai Residence.

Hey
Your wording is a bit confusing to me, can you clarify a bit? So for example if someone has Dubai company and Dubai tax residency (with 90 days presence the new rule), can he/she lives in Monaco for like over 6 months time and operates the Dubai company from Monaco and does not get taxed on Monaco corporate tax 25%? Assuming no company structure is set up in Monaco.

" But if you are working from home from an apartment in Monaco and spending more than 25% of the year in Monaco, you might be taking a risk that this rule gets enforced."

 

[Konstanz]

Random question.....

The biggest issue with a Monaco move seems to be getting a bank account and depositing 1 million+, no bank account means no tax number....

Could you rent an apartment but still be resident of somewhere else which is 0% tax (I am resident of Sark), live in Monaco most of the year (assuming I get a French visa due to Brexit).

Would there be any risk, and could you still run a company from there which is located in an offshore / low tax location?

I know many people will say why Monaco, I've spent a lot of time there (run an events company), have previously done F1 hospitality and we work on the yachts a fair bit so being on the ground could also be good for new business. In addition I have a UK business and the Nice to London run is one of the easiest. It's also very well connected for the mountains in winter and an easy drive to most of Europe.

If you have Monaco residence, you can set-up offshore company and do business through it.
There are no risks. Monaco don't care about foreign companies. There are no CFC, PE rulings.
Yes, the most tricky part is to have bank account in Monaco for your residence. Minimum is 500 000 EUR and it has to be invested all time of residence in Monaco. However, most of the banks require more than 500k.

 

[Barney2201]

Yes, hence my original post saying what's to stop anyone living there but keep tax residence / company in another country. Tying up 500K - 1 Million just to get a bank account is for a select few.... However, I am guessing renting a place without a Monaco bank account will be very difficult even if you do pay 12 months upfront....

 

[Konstanz]

Yes, hence my original post saying what's to stop anyone living there but keep tax residence / company in another country. Tying up 500K - 1 Million just to get a bank account is for a select few.... However, I am guessing renting a place without a Monaco bank account will be very difficult even if you do pay 12 months upfront....

You can. I think there are many people who have apartments in Monaco and don't have residence.
I think it's possible to get rent without MC bank account. But yes, you will have to pay 1 year upfront
Some rich people just have apartment in Monaco because it's very safe for Holiday and it''s prestige to have Monaco address

 

[Barney2201]

My theory is it's better than somewhere like Spain or France, if you have a place there (rent or own) you can very quickly be staring down the crosshairs of the local tax man.... I travel a lot so don't generate lots of days in anyone place. At least if MC decided to make me resident that would only be a good thing...

 

[Konstanz]

My theory is it's better than somewhere like Spain or France, if you have a place there (rent or own) you can very quickly be staring down the crosshairs of the local tax man.... I travel a lot so don't generate lots of days in anyone place. At least if MC decided to make me resident that would only be a good thing...

Yes, you are correct. What is good about Monaco is that it's very international place, not like Italy or France. But at the same time you have all Europe on your doorstep

 

[Fred]

Real Estate Market in Monaco is heavy regulated - should they run out of Property for the rich looking for Permanent Residence and to bring significant money to the country.

Beside of that you have already very limited options as the majority of the Real Estate is already or can only be occupied by Monaco Citizens.

Don't underestimate the regulation and boarder monitoring of Monaco.

 

[JackAlabama]

My theory is it's better than somewhere like Spain or France, if you have a place there (rent or own) you can very quickly be staring down the crosshairs of the local tax man.... I travel a lot so don't generate lots of days in anyone place. At least if MC decided to make me resident that would only be a good thing...

You can rent in Spain. But if you do so under your name, you must count the days you spend there as they monitor electro/water usage.
Its ok if you spend the winter months there, many retirees do that and during summer they go back to Northeurope. For many the summer is way too hot anyway.

 

[scooterguy]

What about setting up a company in Monaco? I understand that the first two years are tax-exempt, and there are also tax reliefs for the following years.

Is it really that hard to set up a business there?

 

[Fred]

What about setting up a company in Monaco? I understand that the first two years are tax-exempt, and there are also tax reliefs for the following years.

Is it really that hard to set up a business there?

Yes - very regulated - it already starts with the high cost of rent for commercial space which is again required and checked frequently.

Working with lawyers covering the Monaco side I can confirm that the core of a Monaco setup is the fact that any active Business is conduct from outside Monaco based company with proper management like Employeed CEO, Finance, HR etc. OR the guys are retired at all and did sold there Business and basically just use Monaco based Banks for Wealth Management and ejoying life on the French Riviera.

 

[sergeylim88]

what happens if you just run a foreign company (dubai fzco, or some ibc) from monaco and you do the actual work(no employees, no ceo, you are the director)?
@Konstanz says there is no risk in doing so, would you agree with him @Fred

 

[Fred]

what happens if you just run a foreign company (dubai fzco, or some ibc) from monaco and you do the actual work(no employees, no ceo, you are the director)?
@Konstanz says there is no risk in doing so, would you agree with him @Fred

Yes - I agree with what @Konstanz mentions and have the real life confirmation from a very few clients living in Monaco and running a FZCO with us in Dubai.