Monaco Relocation

[liroyb]

I'm considering moving to Monaco and would be great if anyone knows the following:

Would I be able to keep my singapore bank account? (I know it's impossible for EU residents but not sure about non-EU)

Does the 500,000 EUR requirement must be in cash or can be in securities?

 

[Martin Everson]

Would I be able to keep my singapore bank account? (I know it's impossible for EU residents but not sure about non-EU)

Yes if you bank with HSBC Singapore for example.

Does the 500,000 EUR requirement must be in cash or can be in securities?

They look at it on a case by case basis. 500k in securities will not cut it I can tell you now. You must show you are able to sustain yourself and will never be a burden to the principality. You most important must show pre-arranged adequate accommodation. As you won't fall under Law 887 your money will be drained very quickly in Monaco on accommodation so check any cheap apartment you see online is not under Law 887 or 1291/1235.

I don't know your specific situation but you would need a Monaco bank reference to be successful. The authorities prefer if you provide a letter from a local bank in 2024 saying you have sufficient means to survive in Monaco as it makes the decision process easier from what I was told when I looked into it years ago. 500k in my opinion will not be enough to show you even have enough income from that to live on in Monaco in 2024. You will be at the back of the queue behind millionaires and billionaires.

You can check on governments own website latest requirements below. Don't rely on what third-party sites say as a lot has changed in 2024.

https://monservicepublic.gouv.mc/en...o-apply-for-a-residence-permit#fragment-93033

P.S If you show you will be of economic value to the principality that is helps also during in person interview.

 

[GPT]

Yes if you bank with HSBC Singapore for example.



They look at it on a case by case basis. 500k in securities will not cut it I can tell you now. You must show you are able to sustain yourself and will never be a burden to the principality. You most important must show pre-arranged adequate accommodation. As you won't fall under Law 887 your money will be drained very quickly in Monaco on accommodation so check any cheap apartment you see online is not under Law 887 or 1291/1235.

I don't know your specific situation but you would need a Monaco bank reference to be successful. The authorities prefer if you provide a letter from a local bank in 2024 saying you have sufficient means to survive in Monaco as it makes the decision process easier from what I was told when I looked into it years ago. 500k in my opinion will not be enough to show you even have enough income from that to live on in Monaco in 2024. You will be at the back of the queue behind millionaires and billionaires.

You can check on governments own website latest requirements below. Don't rely on what third-party sites say as a lot has changed in 2024.

https://monservicepublic.gouv.mc/en...o-apply-for-a-residence-permit#fragment-93033

P.S If you show you will be of economic value to the principality that is helps also during in person interview.

In addition to the above; in Monaco it is expected that you buy if you are a foreigner that comes to reside there with wealth.

Buying starts around 700-800k Euro. Besides that you need the substantial amount of wealth to provide for yourself. I'd say that with a wealth level of below 2,5M it doesnt make any sense to go there.

 

[JimBeam]

Buying starts around 700-800k Euro. Besides that you need the substantial amount of wealth to provide for yourself. I'd say that with a wealth level of below 2,5M it doesnt make any sense to go there.

If you're in 2.5M range you better check Cyprus or Malta.
Monaco is more for people in 5M+ range.

 

[jafo]

If you're in 2.5M range you better check Cyprus or Malta.
Monaco is more for people in 5M+ range.

What are the total taxes one pays at the end of the day in Cyprus and Malta?

 

[ilke]

What are the total taxes one pays at the end of the day in Cyprus and Malta?

You can do 2.65% total tax (just GESY) if you run a 0% tax offshore from Cyprus and bring in dividends as a non-dom. Keep in mind that this is not legal, just a law that is not (and probably will not be, for a long time) enforced.

 

[jafo]

You can do 2.65% total tax (just GESY) if you run a 0% tax offshore from Cyprus and bring in dividends as a non-dom. Keep in mind that this is not legal, just a law that is not (and probably will not be, for a long time) enforced.

So, this is incorrect? Income Tax in Cyprus

 

[JimBeam]

What are the total taxes one pays at the end of the day in Cyprus and Malta?

Well, depends on many factors.
It's may be great for some and not that good for someone else.

My point was that the "entry ticket" is much lower in Cyprus and as all your costs are much lower.
For example: a person can buy a 300k+5% VAT property and you get a residence permit for him and his family fairly easily.
If he spends 5 out of past 7 years, he can apply for passport/citizenship (in Monaco it's another story).

Cyprus is ideal for someone living of his assets (retirement) as a non-dom he pays no CGT and pays just 2.65% GESY contribution on dividends (capped to about 5k/year). So let's say a person with 2.5M NW moves to Cyprus, buys 500k property in Cyprus and has 2M in dividend stocks paying him an average of 3.5% APY. He would have yearly income of ~70k, or ~68k after tax or roughly over 5.6k/month. These 5.6k would go much further there than in Monaco. It's a lot of pita-gyros, retsina wine and KEO beer

Someone with 2.5M might end up broke in Monaco easily or wealth may deteriorate due to high costs of living.

Cyprus is also great for someone who can run a company under IP box and pay just 2.5% tax.

It's actually not that bad if you run any decent business as your tax is 12.5% (EU average is at 21.3%), you pay your self a minimum salary (with fairly low tax and health contributions) and then pay out company profits to yourself as tax-free dividends. But again depends on so many factors.

You probably know all this already.

 

[jafo]

Cyprus is ideal for someone living of his assets (retirement) as a non-dom he pays no CGT and pays just 2.65% GESY contribution on dividends (capped to about 5k/year). So let's say a person with 2.5M NW moves to Cyprus, buys 500k property in Cyprus and has 2M in dividend stocks paying him an average of 3.5% APY. He would have yearly income of ~70k, or ~68k after tax or roughly over 5.6k/month.

You can do 2.65% total tax (just GESY) if you run a 0% tax offshore from Cyprus and bring in dividends as a non-dom. Keep in mind that this is not legal, just a law that is not (and probably will not be, for a long time) enforced.

Is this setup "legal," though?
If tomorrow "Cyprus pulls a Dubai" and enforces this, how many people would be in hot water?
This is a wet dream for any State. It is a true honeypot ripe for rug pull for Cyprus and its state-licensed lawyers and accountants. These could amount to a plethora of taxable events with penalties and whatnot.
So, is this setup legal or just NOT enforced?

 

[ilke]

So, this is incorrect? Income Tax in Cyprus

This is correct, but that page just outlines the 2 ways you can get tax residency.

Upon gaining tax residency, what I said would apply. If you prefer to stick to the law, you would be paying 12.5% corporate tax (or 2.5% with IP box). You could get paid up to 19500 EUR as a salary with 0% tax. The next bracket has a tax rate of 20%. IIRC, you will always be paying only 2.65% GESY on dividends. If you become a domiciled resident (tax resident for 17 out of the last 20 years), you will also be paying a 17% SDC rate on dividends and interest.

Is this setup "legal," though?

No, just not enforced. CFC and PE laws were introduced/novelised in 2019, but zero enforcement of them has taken place yet, to the best of my knowledge.

If tomorrow "Cyprus pulls a Dubai" and enforces this, how many people would be in hot water?

A lot of foreigners. Which is why they're unlikely to do so. The state is already pretty happy with its 2.65% contribution on dividends from onshore and offshore income, and the people don't complain - hardly anybody has a problem with paying that.

This is a wet dream for any State. It is a true honeypot ripe for rug pull for Cyprus and its state-licensed lawyers and accountants. These could amount to a plethora of taxable events with penalties and whatnot.
So, is this setup legal or just NOT enforced?

Yes, Cyprus could theoretically do a "rug pull", find offshore companies ran by Cypriot tax residents and request them to be taxed. But Cyprus is generally pretty lax. In fact, even a Cypriot company can lose its tax residency if it proves that it has got PE/CFC somewhere else and will pay tax there (which should still work even in a zero tax country that can issue certificates) - one would gain the added trust of an EU company while running it offshore.

 

[ShillGates]

there is no rugpull , this is the law. Any dividence/passive income attracts 2.65 gesy upto 4800 euro max payments. anything above that is a big fat zero.

if you setup a cyprus company its 12.5% corp taxc and then dividend is tax free (ignoring gesy)
if you run your singapore company and then they do a rugpull all cyprus is entitled to is 12.% corp tax and gesy. so might as well wing it and keep the foreign company alive, or if possible, hire a local director - problem solved

cyprus is relaxed, they know they need the money and ratherhave millionaires coming who then spent on the island. it is better than dubai though! (ignoring the aspect of shopping/living etc)

 

[Konstanz]

You can have 0% income tax in many places. But it's not only about 0% income tax.
Cyprus, Malta to say politely are not the best places to live. And it's even not 0% tax there. You are just stuck with your life in some mediocre island. Even Dubai is better than Malta or Cyprus...

 

[GPT]

If you're in 2.5M range you better check Cyprus or Malta.
Monaco is more for people in 5M+ range.

I gave a lower end and didn’t say that it would be comfortable. As with anything it depends on the specific wants and needs. Monaco offers a robust setup proposed and supported by the government.

In Cyprus I don’t think they will pull the rug immediately but we have all seen how external circumstances got Cyprus on its knees in the past. So I wouldn’t put my money on it. The banking crisis killed a lot of economical activity.

Real estate in Cyprus is a nightmare. It depends a bit on the area but anywhere where a foreigner would want to live it’s not too likely to find something below 1M which is overpriced for what it is and let’s not even talk quality.

7 years to a naturalization / passport in Cyprus is in theory only. In practice 10-12 years is more common. Even Cypriots complain about this a lot.

Don’t get me wrong, I like Cyprus and lived there for almost 7 years. It is however a 2nd world country. The only reason why a lot of things work is because they are brushed of the table. “siga siga”.

 

[ShillGates]

You can have 0% income tax in many places. But it's not only about 0% income tax.
Cyprus, Malta to say politely are not the best places to live. And it's even not 0% tax there. You are just stuck with your life in some mediocre island. Even Dubai is better than Malta or Cyprus...

it depends who or what you aiming for. Cyprus as a quiet base to get head down and progress your online business yes. Dont do business locally indeed its a nightmare, but heck - you can be resident here and spent most part of the year somewhere else. Dubai in winter and all busy craszy, cyprus in summer and all quiet . there is no set formula, but it is better to live somewhere where you happy and productive and have great facilities for business and pay 20% tax then it is to live somewhere sh1thole that makes you unhappy and be not productive.

cyprus does give the laid back lifestyle indeed - but Dubai got the edge in terms of things to do, restaurants etc - but it comes at a price. maybe we should create a thread about reviews of countries rather than just focussing on the monetary tax element?

for example monaco yields many benefots but it requires a certain person to live there - I like the cote d'azur - its great in the summer but cant see myself ever living there after all - its french and french love bureaucracy

 

[Sols]

Only people who haven't spent time in Cyprus fear the rug pull.

Not saying Cyprus would never start enforcing its tax laws fully, just that there will in all likelihood be ample warning followed by years of loopholes with minimal effort spent on closing them.

Siga, siga.

Malta is the same.

Have you ever spoken with Maltese or Cypriot politicians or senior officials? They know what's going on and see it as a net benefit to not rock the boat. The tax authority knows as well. They won't change until they absolutely have to, which could be triggered by EU overreach or drastic economic hardship requiring immediate increased tax revenue (although they'd more likely just raise the current taxes than impose "new" ones).

UAE was an accidental tax haven built on oil and gas revenue.

Cyprus and Malta are intentional tax havens built on law and purpose.

 

[uranium]

To everyone thinking about incorporating in these islands cyprus and malta: good luck with banking.

 

[ShillGates]

yes banking ins a nightmare locally in Cyprus - which is what "for now" sets uae apart. Quick banking and open to business without having to employ someone fulltime in order to get banking transactions cleared. So that is a big plus and will be the driver of the UAE, however bear in mind that coming of the grey list was not so long ago and the EU wants to see more progress by seeing enforcement actions by the uae in freezing accounts of "criminals"

 

[JimBeam]

I agree that Cyprus won't do s*it unless they are pressed from the outside.
Now with Merkel out of the way nobody seems to be pushing them LOL

Is this setup "legal," though?
If tomorrow "Cyprus pulls a Dubai" and enforces this, how many people would be in hot water?

Just for the clarification, you have two different things here:
1. Person having no company with 2.5M of liquid NW in his name and with 500k property and 2M in public stocks. Don't se how he can get rugged unless the cy gov. increases CGT or dividend tax to non-doms (but that's the last thing they want to do I guess)
2. Post from user like where person is having a business that he runs in an offshore jurisdiction while living in Cyprus. That's risky and I wasn't writing about that scenario at all. My post was - do it by the books - run a local company, pay 12.5% (or 2.5% CGT), pay yourself a minimum salary, pull dividends.

 

[ilke]

Only people who haven't spent time in Cyprus fear the rug pull.

Don't fear it, but account for it as a possibility for the future. The EU is capable of a whole lot of s**t and they love pushing countries around.

Not saying Cyprus would never start enforcing its tax laws fully, just that there will in all likelihood be ample warning followed by years of loopholes with minimal effort spent on closing them.

Siga, siga.

Malta is the same.

Yes, that's the true approach.

To everyone thinking about incorporating in these islands cyprus and malta: good luck with banking.

Banking in Cyprus is not hard to achieve. The banks undeniably had hardships in the past but it was also a time where the banking had low oversight. Plus there are loads of EU and UK EMIs (and a few banks) that are open to CY & MT.

 

[Marshal]

7 years to a naturalization / passport in Cyprus is in theory only. In practice 10-12 years is more common. Even Cypriots complain about this a lot.

Same thing with Malta. I hardly know anyone who was able to get a Maltese passport after residing there for 5+ years, unless there are willing to invest $$$