Question Most/least aggressive tax offices in Europe?

[sriracha]

What are the most/least aggressive tax offices in Europe?

I am referring to, for example:

- making you a tax resident even with less than 183 days (I read this about Spain)
- systematic scanning of ATM withdrawals
- cannot do anything without a tax ID (Italy)
- Artificial Intelligence on card transactions (I read this about France)

and this sort of things, where in less aggressive countries, they either have less rules, or they have the same rules and they are not enforced and you could "fly under the radar" at least for a couple of years, if you stay under the thresholds (5k euro for bank transfers, only small ATM withdrawals etc), don't post yourself on FB in front of your Lamborghini, don't show wads of cash to everybody in town, conduct most transactions in cash etc.

Asking for a friend.

 

[Mr Gus]

Malta, Cyprus, Eastern European or Balkan countries probably.

 

[RealDude]

Malta, Cyprus, Eastern European or Balkan countries probably.

So Europe's "shitholes“

 

[12345]

Yes from my experience I can confirm that tax office in eastern europe works sluggish

 

[Marzio]

tax office in eastern europe works sluggish

Eastern Europe is very generic statement, which country specifically are you referring to? Poland is eastern Europe but it’s very aggressive.

 

[12345]

Eastern Europe is very generic statement, which country specifically are you referring to? Poland is eastern Europe but it’s very aggressive.

I refer to Poland but of course thats only from my personal experience. I were audited once and the employees did not show much dedication or understanding haha maybe they are aggresive towards old ladies selling vegatables on the market or kebab booths but they lack understanding to deal with digital or more elaborate businesses and their IT systems are probably outdated, well correct me if Im wrong thanks

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

Most aggressive no doubt NL.

Least aggressive, Balkans and everything east of then. RO, BG, etc.

 

[Marzio]

Most aggressive no doubt NL.

Germany, Spain, France and Italy are at the same level if not more.

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

Germany, Spain, France and Italy are at the same level if not more.

Germany and France maybe yeah but Spain and Italy albeit aggressive are also very bad at their job so it's somewhat easy to circumvent them.

I know for a fact that as soon as you open a new account outside of NL they f*****g KNOW the next day.

 

[Marzio]

Spain and Italy albeit aggressive are also very bad at their job

Maybe but if they get you, good luck.

 

[Cocopops]

So Europe's "shitholes“

The worst shitholes in europe are in the west

 

[marioIT]

Italian and Spanish tax agencies are a russian roulette.
Italian is the worse one of the two, but both are really bad.
They're totally inefficient. There's this idea that you can do all you want and not get caught and it's true... till you get caught and will be the scapegoat that will have to pay for everyone else...
If you're either a criminal or a politician or both of them, you're safe. Nobody is going to touch you.
If you're a businessman/entrepreneur, there's no legal certainty. The only certainty is that you are a cow to milk.

It'll start with a signed-for letter, while out of nothing and very nonchalantely they write: "we know you declared and have invoices for 50k, but we think based on our internal stats that a company like yours should have 500k revenue, so we are going to calculate taxes on that and... STARTING FROM NOW YOU OWES US MONEY".
Just like that without proof.
On top of that they'll add fees, fines, and on top of everything they'll add extortion interest rates if you don't pay that in their crazy terms (10-20 days?).
Yet they tell you, if you think is wrong then call us at this number. Very likely that number will not exist.
You go at their office angry as a lion, they give no explaination about how they made up those numbers.
They'll start the blame game on another office and you'll not be able to understand/fix the issue.
And when you tell them they're totally crazy, dumb as s**t and hired by nepotism, they pretty much they tell you to go f* yourself and call the police on you.

So either you pay and then take them to court or you don't pay and they take you to court...
The law allows them to take you to court without proof once the number is big enough.
They don't care if they lose the ruling or how much it'll cost, since they have their state paid lawyers.
You'll have to pay your own lawyers for years.
Usually, albeit those tax codes are very likely written on purpose in hieroglyphs and will need a very good lawyer, you can bring down almost all of their whole house of cards built on nothing, but it will cost money and years of life in court.
That's why i always tell do not just look at the facade, try look at how harsh they are in court, how clear is their tax code, how fair are they, how they handle these kind of situations, do they pay for their errors etc.

I'd prefer a big tax issue in switzerland than in Italy or Spain. I bet it'll be cheaper and way quicker to fix it and get back to life in switzerland than in those countries!
And this already should give you the idea of the situation you can end in if they want to mess with you.

 

[sarkozy]

Maybe but if they get you, good luck.

I have dealt with the Spanish tax office. I sold an expensive property but because I developed it before the 2008 financial crisis, I made no money. The tax office didn't agree and first sent a bill for €400,000. Then when I didn't respond they sent a second demand for €850,000 including penalties, interest and called it a criminal matter. At that point I took it seriously and got my accountant to send them a set of accounts to prove there was no tax to pay. After that, silence! Apparently, the tax inspector dealing with my case was exiled to a remote part of Spain as punishment for wasting resources on this fruitless investigation. She had been investigating me for more than a decade but couldn't find anything.

 

[Marzio]

Just look at the Shakira case. She paid the fine and now they are looking to jail her for 8 years?

 

[MiltonStone]

Malta, Cyprus, Eastern European or Balkan countries probably.

agree, that may sum them all up. Would add Bulgaria to the list.

 

[CyprusLawyer101]

Cyprus is not aggressive, but it can become for those who consider it as shithole

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

Just look at the Shakira case. She paid the fine and now they are looking to jail her for 8 years?

Chances of this happening are very low tho.

It looks tough on the press and makes them look good I can give you that.

 

[MiltonStone]

Cyprus is not aggressive, but it can become for those who consider it as shithole

I can imagine.

 

[oscurete]

Avoid Spain tax agency. As marioIT said, it is a russian roulette. They are heavily underemployed so the chances of getting an inspection are low. But the inspectors get bonuses at the end of the year based on how many fines they emit. So, if you are inspected, most of the time, you will be fined. And, in this regard, you are guilty until you prove you are innocent.

So run away from the Spanish tax agency.

 

[Meta]

Getlemen, thank you for the valuable information on Spain above. I'll add what I know. I'm thinking of buying a property in Spain, getting a residence permit based on that, but I don't want to become a tax resident there. I'm planning to spend 4-5 months a year there maybe. I have asked a few lawyers, what I gather is that:
1) You may do whatever, they mostly don't care.
2) You may get a letter "Hmm, you look like a resident, why don't you file tax declarations" - unlikely.
3) If you have passport stamps/tickets/etc showing that you don't spend 183 days in Spain + don't have family living in Spain, you are fine. You won't have lengthy discussions regarding "center of economic interests". If you have documents about tax residency in other country, you are certainly golden.

Would love to see comments of individuals dealing with tax office regarding tax residency rules. Cheers!
P.S. Side note, found it fascinating that Switzerland considers you to be a tax resident if you are there on holiday for 90 days per year, or spend just 30 days a year with regard to "gainful activity" (e.g. working/doing business as I gather).