Offshore accounts accepting money coming from China

[patrick12]

Hello,

Here is my situation, I am a European citizen living in China and my partner is Chinese. We would like to get our savings out of the country before leaving. Getting my money is not too hard, but Chinese citizens have a limit of what they can transfer abroad per year. The usual workaround is to get different friends to transfer money for you but my home bank is not too keen on having big amounts transferred to my account by different people in China. I tried with my N26 account and just just rejected any money transfer from there.

I have spent some time doing research but it is hard to find information, I would be grateful if someone could help me finding a decent option. My main issue being finding a safe bank that accepts big transfers from different people in China. We are not looking to hide the money and would be fine paying taxes on that money.

thanks!

 

[Gediminas]

Hey,

I think I would be able to help with that in case everything is documented.

Drop me an email and let's schedule a call to speak about it more in detail.

 

[Forester]

Hello,

Here is my situation, I am a European citizen living in China and my partner is Chinese. We would like to get our savings out of the country before leaving. Getting my money is not too hard, but Chinese citizens have a limit of what they can transfer abroad per year. The usual workaround is to get different friends to transfer money for you but my home bank is not too keen on having big amounts transferred to my account by different people in China. I tried with my N26 account and just just rejected any money transfer from there.

What do you mean by “big amounts”? How many figures (USD/EUR)? (Generally, N26 is not, as the majority of neobanks, designed for large transfers.) IMO, a proper solution heavily depends on it.
BTW, I guess that you do not have your own account in China? Otherwise the solution would be obvious – to transfer the assets to your Chinese account and then to your account somewhere else; transfers between two accounts in the same name are very much easier. (As I understand that you can send the money abroad without a restriction.)

My main issue being finding a safe bank that accepts big transfers from different people in China. We are not looking to hide the money and would be fine paying taxes on that money.

The main problem does not concern taxing / tax evasion; but money laundering. Any bank is reluctant about many transfers from different people to a personal account, as it looks suspiciously – in general. (I would even say that the country of origin does not mean so much.) They will be asking about reasons for payments (loans, gifts, ...) and (extremely probably) the sources of funds. (I presume that this is the meaning of @Gediminas's condition “everything is documented” that is absolutely understandable.)

 

[patrick12]

Hey,

I think I would be able to help with that in case everything is documented.

Drop me an email and let's schedule a call to speak about it more in detail.

Sent you an email!

What do you mean by “big amounts”? How many figures (USD/EUR)? (Generally, N26 is not, as the majority of neobanks, designed for large transfers.) IMO, a proper solution heavily depends on it.

I think we tried to test the waters with only $5,000 and it got rejected by N26

BTW, I guess that you do not have your own account in China? Otherwise the solution would be obvious – to transfer the assets to your Chinese account and then to your account somewhere else; transfers between two accounts in the same name are very much easier. (As I understand that you can send the money abroad without a restriction.)

I didn't detail this part because I wanted to keep it short ahah. I do have a Chinese account BUT foreigners have to prove that they earned that money by bringing payslips and all kinds of paperwork to be able to wire it outside. For a foreigner, sending money abroad is very scrutinized and you usually have to spend half a day at the bank doing tons of paperwork. If my partner was transferring me money I would not be able to wire it outside of China. My bank app doesn't even have the option to send abroad.

The main problem does not concern taxing / tax evasion; but money laundering. Any bank is reluctant about many transfers from different people to a personal account, as it looks suspiciously – in general. (I would even say that the country of origin does not mean so much.) They will be asking about reasons for payments (loans, gifts, ...) and (extremely probably) the sources of funds. (I presume that this is the meaning of @Gediminas's condition “everything is documented” that is absolutely understandable.)

I understand the general concept but there's no clear rules to me, like it would be too easy to just say that everything is just gifts
Here my main issue is that since she cannot send it to me through her account and has to add an intermediary, it makes it look suspicious, even though the source of funds is 100% legal.

 

[Forester]

I think we tried to test the waters with only $5,000 and it got rejected by N26

Well, $5,000 is really not a big amount. Nevertheless, take into account that N26 repeatedly faced problems with the regulator in the past, being accussed for covering money laundering etc.; so I can imagine pretty well that even such a sum, coming out of the blue from a Chinese person, can trigger a rejection although in another bank it would be well explainable.

I do have a Chinese account BUT foreigners have to prove that they earned that money by bringing payslips and all kinds of paperwork to be able to wire it outside. For a foreigner, sending money abroad is very scrutinized and you usually have to spend half a day at the bank doing tons of paperwork. If my partner was transferring me money I would not be able to wire it outside of China. My bank app doesn't even have the option to send abroad.

Oh yes. I understand. Thanks for the explanation, it is an interesting insight.

I understand the general concept but there's no clear rules to me, like it would be too easy to just say that everything is just gifts

Of course it would not be sufficient, at least without proofing the source of funds. (BTW, wedding gifts are quite well acceptable )

Here my main issue is that since she cannot send it to me through her account and has to add an intermediary, it makes it look suspicious, even though the source of funds is 100% legal.

Exactly.
Well, let's deal with it from the another perspective:
There is one more parameter (besides the expected amount for one transfer) – how large amount do you need to transfer in sum? It influences the situation as well as the necessary amount for one transfer, to tell the truth. (Because, for example, if the sum has 7 figures, the intermediaries are able to send outside 6 figures and you are able to fly to Switzerland, the problem is solved.)

 

[patrick12]

Exactly.
Well, let's deal with it from the another perspective:
There is one more parameter (besides the expected amount for one transfer) – how large amount do you need to transfer in sum? It influences the situation as well as the necessary amount for one transfer, to tell the truth. (Because, for example, if the sum has 7 figures, the intermediaries are able to send outside 6 figures and you are able to fly to Switzerland, the problem is solved.)

The total amount would be less than $400,000 and each person has a limit of $50,000 per year in China, so it would take about 8 different people. Do you mean that a bank in Switzerland would work?

thanks for helping!

 

[Forester]

The total amount would be less than $400,000 and each person has a limit of $50,000 per year in China, so it would take about 8 different people. Do you mean that a bank in Switzerland would work?

Unfortunately – no, I am afraid; the sum is too small to make a bank interested in this operation.

Three ideas/options came to my mind.

A.
From your profile I understand that you are from France. Do you still have an account – with some history! – in some brick-and-mortar bank in France (or simply outside of China)? If so, I think for such a sum it would be feasible just to go personally to the bank and explain the situation; if you can prove the money are 100% clear and legit, it should work. (The same effect you could achieve even as a new client if some introducer or insider supports you; perhaps this is the solution that @Gediminas can offer you.)

B.
If it is possible to buy crypto in China (I guess it is), then simply use crypto. Convert your assets into cryptocurrency (if you are afraid of volatility, use stablecoins) and then after you move out (or even before), open accounts with several(!) EMIs/(neo)banks that are OK with crypto-related transfers (Blackcatcard, Bunq, Nebeus – just to name a few) and convert it back into fiat (if necessary ).

C.
If you plan to use intermediaries for transfers, it means you trust them, in general. So you can establish a company in a suitable jurisdiction (taxing is the main concern) with you, your partner and intermediaries as co-owners (I presume it is legal in China to do it). Then transfer the funds into the company account (it will be easy, as you all will be funding your own company). Afterwards, you (and/or your partner) can acquire the whole company (for $1 or whatever for every co-owner, it is not a public company so nobody should care) and done. The only issue that must be very carefully analysed are tax consequences (heavily depending on jurisdiction of the company and your future residence).

Last but not least: IMO, it is necessary to take into account also the destination where you plan to stay after leaving China, see above. In fact, it has some influence over any of above sketched solutions...

Comments from another members re: A-C are much appreciated

thanks for helping!

You are welcome.

 

[patrick12]

From your profile I understand that you are from France. Do you still have an account – with some history! – in some brick-and-mortar bank in France (or simply outside of China)? If so, I think for such a sum it would be feasible just to go personally to the bank and explain the situation; if you can prove the money are 100% clear and legit, it should work. (The same effect you could achieve even as a new client if some introducer or insider supports you; perhaps this is the solution that @Gediminas can offer you.)

Yes I tried to contact my French bank, they were ok with it if the money was transferred from my partner's account and she could provide translated tax receipts, but were not too keen on having the money transiting through other accounts. The thing is that they never gave me a clear answer, basically just insinuated that I might or might not be in trouble if I do it, I think they're not sure because that is not a case they encounter so often.

If it is possible to buy crypto in China (I guess it is), then simply use crypto. Convert your assets into cryptocurrency (if you are afraid of volatility, use stablecoins) and then after you move out (or even before), open accounts with several(!) EMIs/(neo)banks that are OK with crypto-related transfers (Blackcatcard, Bunq, Nebeus – just to name a few) and convert it back into fiat (if necessary ).

Well... Crypto is banned in China ahah. The only way to get crypto is through P2P apps with terrible rates and usually you can only trade the equivalent of a few thousand usd... So not really possible. Yes I know our situation is so weird and complicated!

If you plan to use intermediaries for transfers, it means you trust them, in general. So you can establish a company in a suitable jurisdiction (taxing is the main concern) with you, your partner and intermediaries as co-owners (I presume it is legal in China to do it). Then transfer the funds into the company account (it will be easy, as you all will be funding your own company). Afterwards, you (and/or your partner) can acquire the whole company (for $1 or whatever for every co-owner, it is not a public company so nobody should care) and done. The only issue that must be very carefully analysed are tax consequences (heavily depending on jurisdiction of the company and your future residence).

I see what you mean, but I would have no idea how to do that, I guess if we were to do it we would hire a financial advisor or someone to help. But that's an interesting idea!

We would most probably move to Japan as the company I work for also has a branch there, if not probably back to Europe!

thanks!

 

[GeneralGogol]

Can you travel to HK and buy crypto there? If so just do a few trips and the rest you can figure out by yourself.

 

[avalanche]

What if she gets UnionPay card and tries to withdraw the funds via ATM?

 

[patrick12]

Can you travel to HK and buy crypto there? If so just do a few trips and the rest you can figure out by yourself.

We can't really travel to HK right now, but the issue would remain the same, we wouldn't be able to link a Chinese bank account to a crypto exchange. P2P would be possible but we would need to find someone we trust for that kind of amount, or a way to make the transaction secure

What if she gets UnionPay card and tries to withdraw the funds via ATM?

That's actually something that I thought about as well! But she finds it very risky to leave all the money in China, while the government kinda has any power on it and has been known for blackmailing people into coming back. I also find the way Chinese banks work to be very inconvenient and rules and regulations change regularly, I think it is definitely safer to get our money out while it is doable, just in case.

 

[avalanche]

We can't really travel to HK right now, but the issue would remain the same, we wouldn't be able to link a Chinese bank account to a crypto exchange. P2P would be possible but we would need to find someone we trust for that kind of amount, or a way to make the transaction secure


That's actually something that I thought about as well! But she finds it very risky to leave all the money in China, while the government kinda has any power on it and has been known for blackmailing people into coming back. I also find the way Chinese banks work to be very inconvenient and rules and regulations change regularly, I think it is definitely safer to get our money out while it is doable, just in case.

Open UK company with Stripe and use her cards to purchase services from you haha. Just check if its legal first, but it should be.

 

[patrick12]

Open UK company with Stripe and use her cards to purchase services from you haha. Just check if its legal first, but it should be.

I need to research a bit, it could be a good idea!

i can help you to transfer money from china to europe

Could you DM me? I can't find the way to DM someone from their profile for some reason. thanks!

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

Hello,

Here is my situation, I am a European citizen living in China and my partner is Chinese. We would like to get our savings out of the country before leaving. Getting my money is not too hard, but Chinese citizens have a limit of what they can transfer abroad per year. The usual workaround is to get different friends to transfer money for you but my home bank is not too keen on having big amounts transferred to my account by different people in China. I tried with my N26 account and just just rejected any money transfer from there.

I have spent some time doing research but it is hard to find information, I would be grateful if someone could help me finding a decent option. My main issue being finding a safe bank that accepts big transfers from different people in China. We are not looking to hide the money and would be fine paying taxes on that money.

thanks!

IBS - International Business Settlement

Fast, transparent and reliable payments from Europe to China. IBS offers the most efficient channel of making payments to China.

www.ibsettle.com

 

[Forester]

Yes I tried to contact my French bank, they were ok with it if the money was transferred from my partner's account and she could provide translated tax receipts, but were not too keen on having the money transiting through other accounts. The thing is that they never gave me a clear answer, basically just insinuated that I might or might not be in trouble if I do it, I think they're not sure because that is not a case they encounter so often.

Yes, may be. Or it is a usual answer of a front-office monkey who has neither real competencies nor any clue what will guys in the compliance do in this case.

Well... Crypto is banned in China ahah. The only way to get crypto is through P2P apps with terrible rates and usually you can only trade the equivalent of a few thousand usd... So not really possible.

An interesting information, thanks for the insight.

I see what you mean, but I would have no idea how to do that, I guess if we were to do it we would hire a financial advisor or someone to help. But that's an interesting idea!

To establish a company, it is pretty simple when using some provider (e.g. Statrys for HK, Aspire for SG, if we talk about your region); but you definitely need
1) a Chinese advisor to check whether it is legal, or at least bearable (to establish a foreign company);
2) an international tax advisor to choose a proper jurisdiction and to orient you in tax matters.
I think that as of (2), you can relatively easily find someone by asking for help in the Mentor Group.

What if she gets UnionPay card and tries to withdraw the funds via ATM?

That's actually something that I thought about as well! But she finds it very risky to leave all the money in China, while the government kinda has any power on it and has been known for blackmailing people into coming back. I also find the way Chinese banks work to be very inconvenient and rules and regulations change regularly, I think it is definitely safer to get our money out while it is doable, just in case.

Fully understandable.

Open UK company with Stripe and use her cards to purchase services from you haha. Just check if its legal first, but it should be.

Really, an interesting idea; but what about tax consequences?

IBS - International Business Settlement

Fast, transparent and reliable payments from Europe to China. IBS offers the most efficient channel of making payments to China.

www.ibsettle.com

Do you think that it can work in this situation? After opening a personal account, will they be OK with 8x50k from different private persons? (I have no clue, just asking.)
BTW, they are not very cheap, as I went quickly through their pricelist. But some things are costly.

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

Do you think that it can work in this situation? After opening a personal account, will they be OK with 8x50k from different private persons? (I have no clue, just asking.)

Tbh no idea mate, never tried this specific situation.

BTW, they are not very cheap, as I went quickly through their pricelist. But some things are costly.

They are for sure but there aint many 'clean' options around neither.

@patrick12 OP you could try paying a visit to Macao. Theres people there who can help you change your RMB for USD and wire it out of Macao to wherever you need.

Pro tip, focus on the casino area.

Im sure you can ask in HK too (and probably get an official service and not some dude who does it for a %) but I know dont know how to go about it there.

 

[fortunespeculator]

Think i can help.You can DM me.

 

[patrick12]

IBS - International Business Settlement

Fast, transparent and reliable payments from Europe to China. IBS offers the most efficient channel of making payments to China.

www.ibsettle.com

Never heard of that service before, I'm going to look into it, thanks! I will also check about changing the RMB from HK

Yes, may be. Or it is a usual answer of a front-office monkey who has neither real competencies nor any clue what will guys in the compliance do in this case.

Yes, I'm pretty sure that's the case =) But previously my bank investigated me because my company was wiring some of my salary from HK to my French account, not sure if they were being overzealous or some new law made it mandatory. It was not big amounts, like $2,000 a month but I had to prove where the money was coming from.

To establish a company, it is pretty simple when using some provider (e.g. Statrys for HK, Aspire for SG, if we talk about your region); but you definitely need
1) a Chinese advisor to check whether it is legal, or at least bearable (to establish a foreign company);
2) an international tax advisor to choose a proper jurisdiction and to orient you in tax matters.
I think that as of (2), you can relatively easily find someone by asking for help in the Mentor Group.

Yes, I think that's the way I might go, it seems to be the most convenient way for me!

Think i can help.You can DM me.

sorry @fortunespeculator I cannot initiate a DM, I think because I haven't posted enough, could you DM me?

 

[PinChoALTA]

May be you can use this setup.

You need to find a company in the jurisdiction you are interested in where you want to receive money. Many importing companies from China will be able to help you by using you as an intermediary for the purchase of equipment in China. You conclude a 3-sided contract, you pay for the goods in China, you are paid by the importer company (maybe a customs broker) after receiving the goods, where you need.

 

[Forester]

May be you can use this setup.

You need to find a company in the jurisdiction you are interested in where you want to receive money. Many importing companies from China will be able to help you by using you as an intermediary for the purchase of equipment in China. You conclude a 3-sided contract, you pay for the goods in China, you are paid by the importer company (maybe a customs broker) after receiving the goods, where you need.

You mean that @patrick12 would be paid to an offshore account, correct?

Yes, it could work.
Pitfalls:
1)
@patrick12 would have to start (also formally) running business in China (and maybe in the jusrisdiction concerned), to make it perfectly legal.
2)
Taxing.
3)
As it is just/only $400k and when finished, the game is over, the number of companies interested in such a short- or medium-time solution will be limited.

One pro:
@patrick12 could even earn some more money for being an intermediary