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Viezeman

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Apr 26, 2020
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#1
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Hello Everyone,

Apparently its possible in the EU to create a network of LTD company`s so your name as a business owner is not visible. In our country its called a "Tangle". It means that a LTD is owned by a company, owned by another company etc. This way the real company owners have loads of more privacy.

Why im asking this? I would like to have more privacy, i dont want people to simply open up a public register and find my private name in registers.

Does anyone know how its possible to setup a tangle structure like this? Its just for privacy reasons and i have to consider it with my next step which is moving my business to another EU country which probably will be Cyprus as im moving out of Europe in a couple of months.

Thanks for any ideas
 
#2
In any setup where privacy is involved, you will need nominees. Full privacy (for bank accounts, etc.) is harder and riskier because even though you're the UBO (ultimate beneficial owner), you won't disclose this information to your bank, and to your government (for tax purposes). So at the end of the day, you'll likely be doing something illegal and risking losing your assets with no possibility of recourse.

Now, if you want some privacy, setting up LLCs in the US is a good option. You can legally setup a LLC in states like Nevada or Wyoming under a nominee, and have the LLCs be transferred back to you without that information being publicly recorded. So anyone looking for the LLC's owner in the public registry would see whoever created it, not the actual owner.

You just have to adapt where to put the LLC in your corporate structure...
 
#3
Full privacy for governments and banks is not the issue really because i dont plan to do anything illegal. Im investigating a couple of companies s who use a structure like this after i found something in a local news paper. The owners of a certain company are untraceable for newspapers, journalists etc. This is what im looking for. Slowly im developing a higher profile in my country and i dont want to be bothered by anyone.

Hiding my name is enough. Now one of the things that i need is the first company in the EU, why? Because of IDEAL and SEPA payments in combination with software that is owned by my payment provider. This software is crucial for my business to work.

So if i go for a Cyprus company, can i make another company owner and appoint a nominee there?
 
#4
I understand your needs, but what prevents a company incorporated outside EU (for example, the US LLC) from opening a bank account within the SEPA area? There are plenty of options.

You don't need to over-complicate unless you have a specific reason.
 
#5
The specific reason is the software which my website is using. It is owned by the payment provider i use with a lot of active subscribers which only accepts companies registered in the EU. Thats why i was thinking about forming a company in Cyprus which is owned by a company with a nominee without my private name is visible for public.

Forming a company in Cyprus will give me tax advantage as i wont be registered in my own country anymore. Now the next step is make sure the Cyprus company wont have my name public but its "owned" by another company in a country with the best tax and privacy options.
 
#6
Viezeman said:
The specific reason is the software which my website is using. It is owned by the payment provider i use with a lot of active subscribers which only accepts companies registered in the EU. Thats why i was thinking about forming a company in Cyprus which is owned by a company with a nominee without my private name is visible for public.

Forming a company in Cyprus will give me tax advantage as i wont be registered in my own country anymore. Now the next step is make sure the Cyprus company wont have my name public but its "owned" by another company in a country with the best tax and privacy options.
Click to expand...

I think LLC + Cyprus company with a nominee director would work in this case
 
#7
that sounds like a option thanks Outlander. I will consider this. Now in the next situation:

If i open a Cyprus company that gets invoiced from another jurisdiction for royalties or license fees. Which jurisdiction would be the most interesting for that?

The setup would be:

Cyprus company with nominee to guarantee privacy

Other jurisdiction that holds the licences or royalties from the platform we developed.

In this case im looking for the best setup for privacy and pay less tax by giving royalty rights or license fees to another jurisdiction which will invoice monthly.
 
#8
Triangle in Czech republic.
Company A is shareholder and director of company B. Company B is shareholder and director of company C. Company C is shareholder and director in company A. To receive a funds out of system, you can be so called a silent partner. Silent partners are not shown in any public registry. Stock company in Czech republic has not listed a shareholders for a public. Directors are in a public registry, only. And it can be a corporate one.
 
#9
The only issue with creating Triangle structures, which have been used for decades is that the purpose of the structure will need to be explained and be understandable to banks for any of the companies in the triangle to obtain banking. Nowadays most banks object to over complication for no obvious reason so will not like the triangle idea. Creating an offshore structure even within Europe (in some cases - not all locations work) is quite simple and I would suggest this done by incorporating the suggested Cyprus Company and then by using a none EU company incorporated with Nominees to hold the shares. This will also give you a trading opportunity so you don’t have to leave all profits in the Cyprus company at 12.5% corp tax rate and can use the zero tax location to receive funds. Nominees should be used throughout. Depending where you move to as an individual you may want to hold the shares of the ultimate holding company in Trust so as to avoid any CFC situation if done correctly. Again you will need to have an explanation of the complexity, but generally I find people can explain this easier than a single country triangle to be honest.
 
#10
James Turner said:
The only issue with creating Triangle structures, which have been used for decades is that the purpose of the structure will need to be explained and be understandable to banks for any of the companies in the triangle to obtain banking. Nowadays most banks object to over complication for no obvious reason so will not like the triangle idea. Creating an offshore structure even within Europe (in some cases - not all locations work) is quite simple and I would suggest this done by incorporating the suggested Cyprus Company and then by using a none EU company incorporated with Nominees to hold the shares. This will also give you a trading opportunity so you don’t have to leave all profits in the Cyprus company at 12.5% corp tax rate and can use the zero tax location to receive funds. Nominees should be used throughout. Depending where you move to as an individual you may want to hold the shares of the ultimate holding company in Trust so as to avoid any CFC situation if done correctly. Again you will need to have an explanation of the complexity, but generally I find people can explain this easier than a single country triangle to be honest.
Click to expand...
Do you know what you need to open a corporate bank account for czech company in czech republic? ID card or Passport + Extract from a corporate registry. Nothing else. None bank in czech republic cares about who is the owner of the company if it is another local company. None of czech bank requires to see a structure, UBO, ... If it is a local company and a director is from non high risk country, they open account in a minutes. Usualy no questions asked.
 
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#11
onemansomewhere said:
Do you know what you need to open a corporate bank account for czech company in czech republic? ID card or Passport + Extract from a corporate registry. Nothing else. None bank in czech republic cares about who is the owner of the company if it is another local company. None of czech bank requires to see a structure, UBO, ... If it is a local company and a director is from non high risk country, they open account in a minutes. Usualy no questions asked.
Click to expand...
Sounds good @onemansomewhere
 
#13
onemansomewhere said:
This is almost the same in all banks in all eastern Europe. The same is with slovak banks when openning account for slovak companies, hungarian banks when openning account for hunragian companies etc..
Click to expand...
My only concern would be their EU membership and CRS compliance. If EU banking is needed though it is a great option. How do you find Hungarian and Slovakian banks consider none domestic companies?
 
#14
James Turner said:
My only concern would be their EU membership and CRS compliance. If EU banking is needed though it is a great option. How do you find Hungarian and Slovakian banks consider none domestic companies?
Click to expand...
They are fully CRS compliant. If someone just need some kind of privacy in a public registry but not in a banking level, this countries are good choise. Skovak and Hungarian banks open a corporate accounts without any problems for companies registered in almost any EU country. Just not to companies registered in Cyprus. They are still willing to open bank account for UK companies. Also after a Brexit.
 
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#15
What does it mean without problems, they require real & original DD and KYC docs of course, but is that all? No introducer, local office anything?
 
#16
James Turner said:
The only issue with creating Triangle structures, which have been used for decades is that the purpose of the structure will need to be explained and be understandable to banks for any of the companies in the triangle to obtain banking. Nowadays most banks object to over complication for no obvious reason so will not like the triangle idea. Creating an offshore structure even within Europe (in some cases - not all locations work) is quite simple and I would suggest this done by incorporating the suggested Cyprus Company and then by using a none EU company incorporated with Nominees to hold the shares. This will also give you a trading opportunity so you don’t have to leave all profits in the Cyprus company at 12.5% corp tax rate and can use the zero tax location to receive funds. Nominees should be used throughout. Depending where you move to as an individual you may want to hold the shares of the ultimate holding company in Trust so as to avoid any CFC situation if done correctly. Again you will need to have an explanation of the complexity, but generally I find people can explain this easier than a single country triangle to be honest.
Click to expand...

How would I get such a setup created? Do you have a reference to a good agent who can help in doing it?
I would also like to avoid UBO registers.
 
#19
onemansomewhere said:
Do you know what you need to open a corporate bank account for czech company in czech republic? ID card or Passport + Extract from a corporate registry. Nothing else. None bank in czech republic cares about who is the owner of the company if it is another local company. None of czech bank requires to see a structure, UBO, ... If it is a local company and a director is from non high risk country, they open account in a minutes. Usualy no questions asked.
Click to expand...

Could you expand on the bolded sections, what do you mean "local" company? Does that mean any EU / onshore company? Or do you mean "local" to them? i.e Czech business?
 
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#20
user9823671 said:
Could you expand on the bolded sections, what do you mean "local" company? Does that mean any EU / onshore company? Or do you mean "local" to them? i.e Czech business?
Click to expand...
Local company for Czech banks means company incporated in Czech republic. Director can be from any non high risk country.. just not US
 
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