Relocate Switzerland and Germany at same time, no tax?

[icecold]

I consider to find a sweat home in both Germany and Switzerland. For personal reasons I choose these destinations and can't find something better to fit my needs.

If I rent a real home in both Germany and Switzerland at the same time and don't stay in any of these countries more than 6 months at a time, will I have to pay personal income tax in any of the countries?

When reading the many posts here on forum I would say NO, someone able to answer ?

 

[backpacker]

I consider to find a sweat home in both Germany and Switzerland. For personal reasons I choose these destinations and can't find something better to fit my needs.

If I rent a real home in both Germany and Switzerland at the same time and don't stay in any of these countries more than 6 months at a time, will I have to pay personal income tax in any of the countries?

When reading the many posts here on forum I would say NO, someone able to answer ?

The basics:
" .... A person will also be considered resident if they remain in Switzerland for a continuous period of more than 90 days (without gainful activity) or 30 days (with gainful activity such as employment) in a calendar year. ...."
-> Switzerland

So, please stop dreaming!

 

[icecold]

I don't dream, I'm asking. That means, if I only stay less than 3 months in Switzerland I will not be considered to be tax payer there?

 

[backpacker]

I don't dream, I'm asking. That means, if I only stay less than 3 months in Switzerland I will not be considered to be tax payer there?

It depends on your individual circumstances. Read the link and elborate your individual case first.

 

[Sols]

I consider to find a sweat home in both Germany and Switzerland. For personal reasons I choose these destinations and can't find something better to fit my needs.

If I rent a real home in both Germany and Switzerland at the same time and don't stay in any of these countries more than 6 months at a time, will I have to pay personal income tax in any of the countries?

Yes, in both Germany and Switzerland.

Tax residence in Switzerland is obtained immediately if you intend establish Switzerland as your usual abode, 30 days if you work from Switzerland, or 90 days if you do not work in Switzerland.

You are also tax resident in Germany simply by having a residence available to you.

Congrats, you now owe taxes in two countries and have to figure out how to use the tax treaty between the two countries to avoid being double taxed.

 

[icecold]

Congrats, you now owe taxes in two countries and have to figure out how to use the tax treaty between the two countries to avoid being double taxed.

I'm not there yet

But I'm sure consulting a tax advisor in both countries may figure it out. Something good must be found.

I could also resign in Germany again, only was registered there for 4 months.

 

[Sols]

I'm not there yet

If you're set on living in one of these two countries and tax is most important, then just settle down in Switzerland and call it your home. Pick a low-tax canton and municipality. Costs of living will be higher than Germany but if your income is high enough, you're still saving money thanks to the lower taxes.

If you want to achieve low/zero tax, don't play with fire. There are other options.

But I'm sure consulting a tax advisor in both countries may figure it out. Something good must be found.

Would be interesting to hear what they come back with. The general principles in both do not look favorable.

I could also resign in Germany again, only was registered there for 4 months.

Registration is for immigration purposes and not so much for tax. You can be registered and tax non-resident and you can be unregistered and tax resident. Although the Germans would probably use registration against you if they can, so deregistering is a good idea.

 

[icecold]

What do you think, if I deregister there before the 6 months end period will I still be applicable for tax in Germany? I have not been registered there for personal tax yet, but have had income and the german tax adviser say we will register me in the middle of 2023 if I'm still in Germany.

 

[Sols]

What do you think, if I deregister there before the 6 months end period will I still be applicable for tax in Germany? I have not been registered there for personal tax yet, but have had income and the german tax adviser say we will register me in the middle of 2023 if I'm still in Germany.

Where are you getting the six months thing from? That's not how Germany defines tax residence.

 

[icecold]

I read on the forum that if you don't stay anywhere longer than 6 month / 180 days you don't have to pay tax in that country! My thought was if I move out of Germany before the 180 days and stay somewhere else I could avoid taxes there?

 

[Sols]

The 180 day rule is not a meaningful, reliable international standard. Many countries use different methods to determine tax residence and many use 180 days as just one factor, not the sole defining factor. You have to look at each country individually.

In the case of Germany...

Generally, individuals are deemed to be resident:

if they have a dwelling in Germany that they use, or that is at least available to them (irrelevant if rented or owned – even a room at a friend’s house could be enough if always accessible), or
if they have an habitual abode in Germany. This can be assumed if the individual is physically present in Germany for more than six months in any one calendar year, or for a consecutive period of six months over a year-end.
Objective circumstances are decisive. Nationality is not, in itself, a criterion for determining residence or tax liability. Also, registration with the German (tax) authorities is only an indicator.

Where an international assignee has a residence in two or more countries, the employee is deemed, for application of a double tax treaty (DTT), to be a resident of the contracting state in which the employee has a centre of vital (personal and economical) interests.

Germany - Individual - Residence

Detailed description of individual residence rules in Germany

taxsummaries.pwc.com

 

[humorousgrape]

In both countries of course!
The 183 day rule only says that if you stay anywhere for 183 days or more then you will definitely become tax resident there.
It does not say anything about what happens if you stay less.
You understood the 183 day rule quite wrong it seems.

In Switzerland, you will in many cases become a tax resident after 30 days, because you probably will work from Switzerland while there. Even if you don't, you will become a tax resident after max 90 days, but since most people are not retired ...
In Germany, you become a tax resident immediately once you have a key that would allow you to go to an apartment, house or similar any time. Whether you actually do that is completely irrelevant. The mere fact of having direct or indirect possession of a key to a German place to live will in most cases make you a tax resident of Germany.
In your case, only the DTAs might be able to help, but you won't be tax-free.
Effectively, you will have to pay the high tax percentage of Germany (around 45% if you have a very high income) + possibly social security contributions. So you are looking at a 60%+ tax+social burden. In many ways, Germany is a socialist country.
On top of that, you would have to file tax returns in two countries and pay for two tax advisors. Switzerland might get a smaller share of what you are paying and Germany takes the rest.