Residency in Georgia by investment!

[GrumpyMess]

An example I tried with one of my Swiss banks and they said they accept Georgia but they need to re-KYC my entire relationship from top to bottom and I would move into a high risk bracket. They even suggested I might need to complete a new Form A

I think it can be the same with any other low tax country like UAE, Andorra or even with an uncharted country like Mongolia. Most likely providing a local ID and tax residence certificate will be enough for them. What's the form A?

Banks don't tend to like money been wired in and out of conflict zones unfortunately.

Having a residence in a war zone and wiring money to a bank in a war zone are a bit different things. But I agree that it is a red flag for banks.

Add to that that citizens of many countries can arrive and stay for up to 1 year legally without much requirements

They are going to tighten up this law soon.

I wonder whether it makes sense to invest in real estate to get residency card there, I checked some websites like place.ge and most apartments and buildings look very shabby

Their construction quality and real estate market sucks, unfortunately. The only sense to get a residency there imo is if you are able to use it as a tax free or low tax residency base for the most of foreign banks. I don't see any benefits without a tax residence.

 

[BlueMist]

What about Bendura? They seem to be working well with Georgians.

I have contacts leading in there if you need. (introducers)

Then better share them or @Admin will make sure to delete your "worthless" posts
I asked you via PM for this contacts, while sharing my findings (also with Bendura) and all you said is that you have a guy in Gerogia and Russia with connections to the bank and min. deposit is EUR 10,000 refundable in case if the application is not successful. Sounds already shady.

But then you neither have opened personal nor corporate account with Bendura, so how do you know?

The official requirement for Bendura bank is a minimum investment of €500,000 by UBO in order to open corporate bank account, just sending a deposit is not sufficient, they require having this money invested. I have already realized that both Swiss and Liechtenstein banks are not comfortable with cash sitting on the account, especially EUR.

 

[Martin Everson]

Do you expect something serious to happen? I noticed that Putin banned direct flights to the country.

I did expect something to happen enough so for me to move my money immediately without waiting. If you followed what happened over the Russian speaker in parliament last year etc things got fairly serious. Yup with flight ban Georgia airways got hit hard. I think the few Georgians that have expressed anti-Russian sentiment have come to their senses now however.

Add to that that citizens of many countries can arrive and stay for up to 1 year legally without much requirements. Maybe not if you're from Iran but if you're from the western world, I do not see much added benefit in building real estate there.

For many moving to Georgia is not really about CRS but about tax benefits, ease of business, free trade deal with EU it has, cheap lifestyle etc. For me paying only 5% tax on interest and dividend income for my local money and nothing for overseas assets is a good deal. Cyprus also offers a good deal in that respect but being outside the EU was a choice I made. For real estate I am no expert on it but I would say FDI for that market is important to Georgia especially from Russia.

 

[Martin Everson]

What's the form A?

Declaration of identity of beneficial ownership of an account. Anyone who has banked with the an@lly retarded swiss will know exactly what I am talking about.

https://www.swissbanking.org/library/rahmenvertraege-formulare/formular-a-2016/form-a/@@download/file/Formular_A_(2020)_EN.pdf

 

[Martin Everson]

I asked you via PM for this contacts, while sharing my findings (also with Bendura) and all you said is that you have a guy in Gerogia and Russia with connections to the bank and min. deposit is EUR 10,000 refundable in case if the application is not successful. Sounds already shady.

Guy in Russia?

Eur 10,000 deposit goes where?

 

[GrumpyMess]

Declaration of identity of beneficial ownership of an account

It's a simple sign and forget form. There are much worse ones.

For me paying only 5% tax on interest and dividend income for my local money and nothing for overseas assets is a good deal. Cyprus also offers a good deal in that respect but being outside the EU was a choice I made.

Have you achieved a full privacy (non public register, etc) with this setup? Cyprus loses in that. A good question is, when a Georgia sign into CRS and they receive your bank info overseas, will you attract unnecessary attention? Being a millionaire in Georgia it's pretty unusual compared to Cyprus.

 

[Martin Everson]

Have you achieved a full privacy (non public register, etc) with this setup?

Never went for privacy I went for extremely low tax rate on investment income of 5% and EU free trade agreement for any business I was planning. In end I didn't do much there.

A good question is, when a Georgia sign into CRS and they receive your bank info overseas, will you attract unnecessary attention?

I'm from a tax free Caribbean island and I don't have any tax obligations to avoid.

Being a millionaire in Georgia it's pretty unusual compared to Cyprus.

Georgia has some very rich people it borders Russia remember.

 

[BlueMist]

Guy in Russia?

Eur 10,000 deposit goes where?

Down the drain I suppose

 

[avalanche]

Guy in Russia?

Eur 10,000 deposit goes where?

It goes to your personal or corporate Bendura account in Liechtenstein. You will only wire money to your own account in the bank, nowhere else. Of course you will have to pay a fee to the introducer as a separate payment.

Also you dont have to deposit immediately. The bank is quite flexible, you supposed to be able to reason with them via personal conversation.

I only shared this info because the deal sounded legit to me. I'm going to proceed with it later in a couple of months.

 

[Konstanz]

I have been in Georgia. To say truth I don't see any resonable advantages of Georgian residency comparing to Dubai, Cyprus besides it's cheaper.
Georgia really has that feel of 3rd world country. Everything seems very shabby. People don't speak English. It's quite far away, for example flight from Munich to Tbilisi is ~4hours..
I think bank compliance would more likely reject Goergian resident than Dubai resident.
Somebody told that the same would be with Andorra. I don't think so. These small European countries are prestigious and has very close ties with other European countries.
They are not considered risky and they are not black listed by EU, because they are in EU teritory. Only others are 'bad gyus' I also think that these European micro countries > Malta, Cyprus.

 

[KJK]

I have been in Georgia. To say truth I don't see any resonable advantages of Georgian residency comparing to Dubai, Cyprus besides it's cheaper.
Georgia really has that feel of 3rd world country. Everything seems very shabby. People don't speak English.
(...)
I think bank compliance would more likely reject Goergian resident than Dubai resident.

Somewhat I agree but at the same time I don't find this comparison very fair. The conditions for these three countries are different (in terms of required time spent etc.)

No country is perfect, living in a desert, or on a boring island or in a country double-occupied by Russia... Choose your poison.

Maybe some countries (such as Georgia, big part of Asia and LatAm) have a 3rd world feel as you wrote. I attribute big part of that feeling to culture shock and first impressions. Especially if you come from some posh country like Austria or Switzerland or Germany.

First impression of UAE might be better but think about it more deeply...

- Georgia has maybe 4M people, there definitely are many poor ones but the impression is influenced by the fact that both rich and poor live in a relatively small area together. What you will see are these people doing stuff like begging or selling vegetables on a street corner or living in a 100-year old house that's about to collapse. There is no concept of "suburban" lifestyle such as in the USA or Australia or large part of Europe. They don't earn much but in terms of PPP (purchasing power parity) it isn't a complete tragedy.

- UAE has maybe 10M people but only 1M are actually locals. Rest of them are all the service workers and construction workers, you see fancy buildings, everything brand new and shining, floor cleaned every 10 minutes, nothing is shabby if you stay in the major cities. What is the main difference? Well the locals isolate themselves from the immigrant workers; the poorer immigrants live far away from the touristy places; in some residential building at the edge of a desert or in a work camp, sharing one room with several others. The reason you won't see beggars is that begging is illegal, if you have no job or you are begging, you will be deported. The immigrants earn more than they would in their home country but their living conditions aren't something to envy and they can't afford much to buy or do locally.

Regarding bank compliance - I don't remember Georgia being on any black lists, UAE was on a "non-cooperating" list at least for a while.

 

[avalanche]

Somewhat I agree but at the same time I don't find this comparison very fair. The conditions for these three countries are different (in terms of required time spent etc.)

No country is perfect, living in a desert, or on a boring island or in a country double-occupied by Russia... Choose your poison.

Maybe some countries (such as Georgia, big part of Asia and LatAm) have a 3rd world feel as you wrote. I attribute big part of that feeling to culture shock and first impressions. Especially if you come from some posh country like Austria or Switzerland or Germany.

First impression of UAE might be better but think about it more deeply...

- Georgia has maybe 4M people, there definitely are many poor ones but the impression is influenced by the fact that both rich and poor live in a relatively small area together. What you will see are these people doing stuff like begging or selling vegetables on a street corner or living in a 100-year old house that's about to collapse. There is no concept of "suburban" lifestyle such as in the USA or Australia or large part of Europe. They don't earn much but in terms of PPP (purchasing power parity) it isn't a complete tragedy.

- UAE has maybe 10M people but only 1M are actually locals. Rest of them are all the service workers and construction workers, you see fancy buildings, everything brand new and shining, floor cleaned every 10 minutes, nothing is shabby if you stay in the major cities. What is the main difference? Well the locals isolate themselves from the immigrant workers; the poorer immigrants live far away from the touristy places; in some residential building at the edge of a desert or in a work camp, sharing one room with several others. The reason you won't see beggars is that begging is illegal, if you have no job or you are begging, you will be deported. The immigrants earn more than they would in their home country but their living conditions aren't something to envy and they can't afford much to buy or do locally.

Regarding bank compliance - I don't remember Georgia being on any black lists, UAE was on a "non-cooperating" list at least for a while.

Honestly Russian "occupation" is not *that* bad for CIS countries. Nobody wants Georgia with their current work-ethics condition, lack of professionalism and hard to learn language. Russia is the only country that is ready to sponsor this CIS region without using them as disposable garbage to wage war with other countries (hello uncle sam).

Also regarding banking, European money comes into Georgian banks as smoothly as it could possibly be. Next day SWIFT transfer, sometimes takes 4 hours.

 

[Konstanz]

Yes, I agree Georgia for budget tax residency is very good choice. I would say for those whose networth is below 1mEUR.
Cyprus is the same - for low budget residency. Dubai I would say for higher budgets. If you can afford to live in posh Dubai Marina and etc.. Budget at least $500k for apartment.
For those who can afford to pay more - there are better alternatives

 

[khinkali]

A lot is down to personal taste. I could live in Dubai and maybe I could live in CIS if I had to, but I know plenty of people who really couldn't stomach either.

Georgia is incredibly pleasant. The personal freedom is more liberal (with a small "l") than Dubai or CIS, financial freedom is higher than EU or most of Asia; bureaucracy is less than EU or most of Asia. Corruption is much less than CIS or most of Asia.

Also by my tastes the food is good, the wine is great, the people are super-friendly and the weather is much better than my previous (humid SE Asia and dark & wet Northern Europe) countries.

The roads are good in Switzerland. Sweden is socially accommodating. The climate is better in the Azores. Taxation is better in UAE. But maybe for now, Georgia might just be the best compromise on the planet. YMMV ;-)

 

[Konstanz]

A lot is down to personal taste. I could live in Dubai and maybe I could live in CIS if I had to, but I know plenty of people who really couldn't stomach either.

Georgia is incredibly pleasant. The personal freedom is more liberal (with a small "l") than Dubai or CIS, financial freedom is higher than EU or most of Asia; bureaucracy is less than EU or most of Asia. Corruption is much less than CIS or most of Asia.

Also by my tastes the food is good, the wine is great, the people are super-friendly and the weather is much better than my previous (humid SE Asia and dark & wet Northern Europe) countries.

The roads are good in Switzerland. Sweden is socially accommodating. The climate is better in the Azores. Taxation is better in UAE. But maybe for now, Georgia might just be the best compromise on the planet. YMMV ;-)

I understand that the country has lots of advantages when you know the language and familiar with the culture. But the general feel with such countries is that you are kind of really not the local put in totally different culture. Georgia is really not the western culture country..
Agree that Dubai is sharia law country in desert, but the general feel of Dubai is like a big international city. Lot's of expats. While in Georgia very few expats from western countries..
Cyprus is also much more international place to live. But it's ugly island..

 

[iloveyouguys]

A lot is down to personal taste. I could live in Dubai and maybe I could live in CIS if I had to, but I know plenty of people who really couldn't stomach either.

Georgia is incredibly pleasant. The personal freedom is more liberal (with a small "l") than Dubai or CIS, financial freedom is higher than EU or most of Asia; bureaucracy is less than EU or most of Asia. Corruption is much less than CIS or most of Asia.

Also by my tastes the food is good, the wine is great, the people are super-friendly and the weather is much better than my previous (humid SE Asia and dark & wet Northern Europe) countries.

The roads are good in Switzerland. Sweden is socially accommodating. The climate is better in the Azores. Taxation is better in UAE. But maybe for now, Georgia might just be the best compromise on the planet. YMMV ;-)

Where to stay there? Suggestions would be nice

 

[khinkali]

@Konstanz I know almost none of the language. As an English speaker I find that most younger people have good English, while older people know Russian.

Most people in international type places (high end restaurant, supermarket, etc.) speak enough English. Similar to SE Asia in that respect. If someone doesn't speak much English and you don't speak Georgian, there's not the latent hatred that Brits experience in parts of Spain and France. People here really want to know if you like Georgia and if you do, then they like you.

Comparing Georgia to Dubai is like comparing a Sicilian village to Las Vegas. I like both, but many people don't. My impression is that people fall in love with Dubai's skyscrapers and slick restaurants in 6* hotels, but the veneer wears off after a while and a lot of (but not all) expats really learn to hate the place. People I've met seem to warm to Georgia over time. I've heard similar arguments about Singapore (soulless, empty, commercial, etc. etc.) vs rural Thailand (potholes, unreliable electricity and water, stray dogs, etc. etc.). It's down to personal taste.

@iloveyouguys it really depends what you like. Tbilisi is quite metropolitan but with lots of potholes. A great place if you like opera, live jazz, family style restaurants. Vake has higher end (and price) restaurants and apartments, Saburtalo has more Westerners, Rustaveli has bars and a lively vibe, old town and Marjianishvili also have a busy but more touristy vibe. Isani/Samgori/Varketeli has no real tourist value, but you can walk up to Tbilisi Sea (think reservoir) and get out of the city. The metro is fast, cheap and efficient and I don't like sitting in traffic so being a short walk from a station is important to me.

I haven't been to Batumi. It seems to be where people go for nightclubs and dodgy massages. Rustav is is cheap and not too far from Tbilisi.

If you want to learn the language, experience village life, marry a nice Georgian and run a small vineyard with your 10 Georgian Children, then the rest of the country should be fine.

I hope this isn't all too off topic. If someone wants residence by investment then I think the local milieu is kind of relevant.

 

[Nicholas Van Orton]

@khinkali - would you mind posting a link to property websites in Georgia (if you know any)? Thanks in advance.

 

[khinkali]

Sorry @Nicholas Van Orton I've used Real estate portal in Georgia, apartments, buy, sell, rent - MyHome.ge and Vacation Rentals, Homes, Experiences & Places - Airbnb but I wasn't looking to buy.

 

[Nicholas Van Orton]

Sorry @Nicholas Van Orton I've used Real estate portal in Georgia, apartments, buy, sell, rent - MyHome.ge and Vacation Rentals, Homes, Experiences & Places - Airbnb but I wasn't looking to buy.

Understood, thanks anyway, I'll check the first link.