Source of funds for 50btc needed

[Surebets]

Hi to all tax refugees and crypto lovers,

I managed to buy some BTC for cash, please advise if someone has a solution to generate “source of funds” for these cash-to-crypto payments? My goal is to have 1-3mln € of fiat on my La Caixa account.


- origin of source is clean, however no taxes were paid on activities. (IGaming)
- I am a Latvian passport holder
- I don’t want to setup a legal entity at this point
- I am ok to “borrow” fiat against crypto, as long as you are able to justify your source of funds should a bank decide to look deeper

I was offered 5-8% to transform cash to BTC/usdt and have it paid to a corp bank covered with invoices and/or loan agreement, but it we couldn’t figure out how to work this out to my personal account.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

I can do btc to cash or wire transfer. If you want fiat on bank account it has to be b2b. Then it’s up to you how to use it, you will likely have to pay taxes on dividends if you want to send to yourself. PM for more info.

 

[Surebets]

Johnny, I need fiat on personal account so b2b doesn’t look like an option for me right now.

I hope to be lucky to find someone in Dubai (or elsewhere) with EUR account and large balance there and taxes paid. Then we can make a contract for property sales for example, where the Dubai guy pays me directly to my La Caixa for a property. Some Caribbean countries still lack “titles” for homeowners, and all property is under the developers name. So, why can’t I “sell” my imaginary villa to guy in UAE, who will send me the EUR right to my EU account?



Another option that comes to mind - royalty payment. I could have been an intermediary in a bank license sale for example, no? Such “master retainer agreements” do you think can be used here?

 

[Sols]

There might not be a need to turn a simple SOF check into a crime.

When did you buy the BTC? Do you have any record at all of the transaction? Invoice, receipt, agreement, or even the original transfer of BTC on the blockchain.

 

[void]

There might not be a need to turn a simple SOF check into a crime.

When did you buy the BTC? Do you have any record at all of the transaction? Invoice, receipt, agreement, or even the original transfer of BTC on the blockchain.

exactly - despite the huge sum there's not need to get yourself into trouble for no good reason

if you are Spaniard (just guessing) then it's probably quite difficult but there are many European countries where nobody asks any questions even nowadays

 

[369]

personal account is a bad choice as a EU "citizen"

 

[Surebets]

There might not be a need to turn a simple SOF check into a crime.

When did you buy the BTC? Do you have any record at all of the transaction? Invoice, receipt, agreement, or even the original transfer of BTC on the blockchain.

Of course there is a TX of transaction on blockchain.

I know personal EU account isn’t the best option but still, that’s where funds are needed.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

Of course there is a TX of transaction on blockchain.

I know personal EU account isn’t the best option but still, that’s where funds are needed.

You need proper planning an patience. Setup a company with a front or real business, slowly transfer the money and then pay yourself dividends.

 

[Sols]

Of course there is a TX of transaction on blockchain.

Anything else to prove that you purchased the bitcoin by cash? Text messages with the seller? Agreements? Be creative.

If you made the purchase long ago when 50 BTC wasn't a significant amount of money and you can provide reasonable proof, you can try work with either a reputable exchange or some crypto friendly bank (SEBA, Swissquote, Frick, Sygnum) to convert to fiat.

You'd still run into SOF trouble if you then move the funds to a bank that isn't crypto friendly. But if you are comfortable keeping the money with one of those banks and only transferring out small portions as needed, you might be able to save yourself a headache.

 

[Surebets]

You need proper planning an patience. Setup a company with a front or real business, slowly transfer the money and then pay yourself dividends.

Yep, a strategy should be implemented for sure. Love your creative approach)

 

[JosephLL]

You need proper planning an patience. Setup a company with a front or real business, slowly transfer the money and then pay yourself dividends.

What would be the estimated time for taking out 100k EUR this way? What would be the actual bitcoin-to-eur conversion point in this scheme ?

I'm in the exactly same position. With the difference that I'm not an eea resident (however Balkans not Russian). That means on the one hand the tax man is less of a problem, but on the other every possible conversion service is out of reach for me (so seba, frick, swissguote, sygnum, alt, Lithuanian emis and else... are out of question). The target is purchase of real-estate in Montenegro.

 

[Surebets]

Would be super cool to have some kind of “trust” that would offer “private” real estate purchase with proxies/nominees. I see no difference in means of risk having a nominee director in a corporation or a nominee to own your property, but couldn’t find any agent that would manage to arrange that.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

What would be the estimated time for taking out 100k EUR this way? What would be the actual bitcoin-to-eur conversion point in this scheme ?

I'm in the exactly same position. With the difference that I'm not an eea resident (however Balkans not Russian). That means on the one hand the tax man is less of a problem, but on the other every possible conversion service is out of reach for me (so seba, frick, swissguote, sygnum, alt, Lithuanian emis and else... are out of question). The target is purchase of real-estate in Montenegro.

It will cost you around 10%.
Timeframe depends on how much you want to risk with your own bank and on how you setup the business. If you want to play it safe, do 10k per month.

Would be super cool to have some kind of “trust” that would offer “private” real estate purchase with proxies/nominees. I see no difference in means of risk having a nominee director in a corporation or a nominee to own your property, but couldn’t find any agent that would manage to arrange that.

It’s feasible but if the nominee has some problems (for example creditors) the property could be at risk.

 

[369]

What would be the estimated time for taking out 100k EUR this way? What would be the actual bitcoin-to-eur conversion point in this scheme ?

I'm in the exactly same position. With the difference that I'm not an eea resident (however Balkans not Russian). That means on the one hand the tax man is less of a problem, but on the other every possible conversion service is out of reach for me (so seba, frick, swissguote, sygnum, alt, Lithuanian emis and else... are out of question). The target is purchase of real-estate in Montenegro.

are you able to travel to poland ?
There are atm's allowing to withdraw up to 10k euro/day without kyc

 

[JohnnyDoe]

are you able to travel to poland ?
There are atm's allowing to withdraw up to 10k euro/day without kyc

All ATMs have CCTV…

 

[void]

All ATMs have CCTV…

hehe, when using ATM, I'm out of sudden really covid sensitive and I'm wearing at least three masks, one shield and hoodie

 

[equityone]

Would be super cool to have some kind of “trust” that would offer “private” real estate purchase with proxies/nominees. I see no difference in means of risk having a nominee director in a corporation or a nominee to own your property, but couldn’t find any agent that would manage to arrange that.

I work with certain ATM providers in Germany/Switzerland/Austria area.

We can back log / back trace purchases up to 10M€ per wallet, produce slips of purchases when BTC has been significantly lower, up to 5 years back, and swap your wallet with a vetted one that corresponds with purchase data from the systems, totally compliant and auditable.

Cost = 3.5% swap + 1,3% SOF package + 0.3% ancillary expenses.

—————

Secondly we can achieve the same result by working with OTC exchanges in Australia, and investment management firms there.

Lock in crypto - get quota from liquidity providers, arrange OTC deal, swap, payout by any of the listed vehicles :
1. Managed Investment services
2. Fixed Income
3. Crypto Investment
4. Property Investment
5. Equities
6. IPO
7. Bonds
8. Transaction Services
9. Custodial Services
10. Distribution of Funds

Cost 7-10% of total volume per <10M€

—————————

Third option , purchase real estate in Albania.

All paperwork and SOF easy cake.

cost 3.5%-5% depending on volume and property type, area , value.

 

[olegek82]

Johnny, I need fiat on personal account so b2b doesn’t look like an option for me right now.

I hope to be lucky to find someone in Dubai (or elsewhere) with EUR account and large balance there and taxes paid. Then we can make a contract for property sales for example, where the Dubai guy pays me directly to my La Caixa for a property. Some Caribbean countries still lack “titles” for homeowners, and all property is under the developers name. So, why can’t I “sell” my imaginary villa to guy in UAE, who will send me the EUR right to my EU account?



Another option that comes to mind - royalty payment. I could have been an intermediary in a bank license sale for example, no? Such “master retainer agreements” do you think can be used here?

property need add to 720 declaration

 

[JosephLL]

are you able to travel to poland ?
There are atm's allowing to withdraw up to 10k euro/day without kyc

Conversion btc->fiat (as cash == banknotes) is not a problem. The problem is conversion from banknotes->bank deposit. My target is to purchase real-estate in Montenegro (where I am not a tax resident). It's impossible to find the seller willing to accept banknotes. Therefore I have to move cash to bank deposit, on my private bank account which I have opened as an non-resident in Montenegro. To add, this bank account is next to useless since, for non-residents, the bank allows only intra-jurisdictional transactions. So, international wire transfer is not possible.

One route is as @JohhnyDoe suggests through legal entity. It takes time and planning. The overall cost would be then: 9% (cgt in MNE, when taking out profit from legal entity) + 10% service cost.

I am wondering is there any faster route ?

 

[Surebets]

I crazy idea but I a faster route I guess would be to setup your own “bank” or other type of institution where you can do what needs to be done. Too bad most of banks for sale are not connected to sepa, or their management isn’t willing to stay

I work with certain ATM providers in Germany/Switzerland/Austria area.

We can back log / back trace purchases up to 10M€ per wallet, produce slips of purchases when BTC has been significantly lower, up to 5 years back, and swap your wallet with a vetted one that corresponds with purchase data from the systems, totally compliant and auditable.

Cost = 3.5% swap + 1,3% SOF package + 0.3% ancillary expenses.

—————

Secondly we can achieve the same result by working with OTC exchanges in Australia, and investment management firms there.

Lock in crypto - get quota from liquidity providers, arrange OTC deal, swap, payout by any of the listed vehicles :
1. Managed Investment services
2. Fixed Income
3. Crypto Investment
4. Property Investment
5. Equities
6. IPO
7. Bonds
8. Transaction Services
9. Custodial Services
10. Distribution of Funds

Cost 7-10% of total volume per <10M€

—————————

Third option , purchase real estate in Albania.

All paperwork and SOF easy cake.

cost 3.5%-5% depending on volume and property type, area , value.

Looks good, let’s try to work something out.