Source of Funds

[Junya | 純也]

Hi everybody, first off thanks for all the contributions here. Really amazing!

I have anonymously been investing my cash via BTC ATMs into Crypto and trading crypto via Decentralized Exchanges the last 2 years. I assume it is no issue to cash out larger sums of crypto if you have the documentation for the source of funds but what if you don't have the documentation? Through all the trading I have completely lost oversight. What can I do? Is there a workaround?

Thanks in advance!

Marc

 

[equityone]

You could have saved the receipts for every cash deposit into the ATM’s but regardless all depends on the face value that you are currently looking to cash out.

There are several methods how to achieve this, can find an exchange, merchant, payment processor that can take your btc with no kyc at all and thereafter supply you with supporting documentation as so to justify the source of funds, as if you’re a freelancer/contractor when the funds are sent back to you by wire.


All depends on the face value and the willingness to do it, considering your balance is anonymous it all comes with a commission on their end,
15-20%.

 

[Junya | 純也]

Thanks. Let's say opening an account with Binance doesn't need KYC - I send my cryptos there - then I would create an invoice for freelancer services and pay myself in crypto - is that correct? The Invoice and the transaction hash would then be reliable documentation? From there I could cash out to any bank that is crypto-friendly and give them the documentation correct?

 

[Plavivoz]

Thanks. Let's say opening an account with Binance doesn't need KYC - I send my cryptos there - then I would create an invoice for freelancer services and pay myself in crypto - is that correct? The Invoice and the transaction hash would then be reliable documentation? From there I could cash out to any bank that is crypto-friendly and give them the documentation correct?

All of this depends on where you are based.

 

[Junya | 純也]

Currently in Germany but I plan to switch to a jurisdiction that is more liberal so Im flexible and open for suggestions.

 

[equityone]

Thanks. Let's say opening an account with Binance doesn't need KYC - I send my cryptos there - then I would create an invoice for freelancer services and pay myself in crypto - is that correct? The Invoice and the transaction hash would then be reliable documentation? From there I could cash out to any bank that is crypto-friendly and give them the documentation correct?
I was referring to something different, issuing yourself an invoice through Binance that’s just impossible, and they all require KYC.

My suggestion was to use providers that can make a blind eye and assist on prepping the needed docs to support the cashout- withdrawal of funds in fiat to your bank coordinates.

But this is not standard procedure, so it doesn’t apply to any of the legacy exchanges or entities, you must have the right connections, all considering the face value, because none would take it into consideration if we’re speaking for small amounts.

 

[Junya | 純也]

ok got it - I think the amount will be >6 digits

 

[equityone]

In that case pm me so I can disclose more specifics without infringing the forums terms

or contact me on telegram @equityone

 

[Plavivoz]

ok got it - I think the amount will be >6 digits

Send me a private message and we can discuss this.

 

[AltMain]

Currently in Germany but I plan to switch to a jurisdiction that is more liberal so Im flexible and open for suggestions.

Well, you can do this
1. Open account on currency.com, make exchange to EURO ( you can also use free2ex.com platform)
2. Send directly to your bank ( if you arein Germany, use Fidor Bank )
or
3. Go Belarus ( it's save now ) and flights are cheap, No visa required.
4. Open local account in EURO and send the transaction from currency.com to your account.
Opening account is simple, just your passport.
*In Belarus all crypto is legal and there is no local fees on it. Read Decree N8 from 2017 year.
5. After that you will have docs for your money from the platform and the bank.
6. Send money to your EU account or where you want.

If anyone will ask your for the source, you will have a platform docs and bank docs.

 

[Junya | 純也]

Awesome thanks. Are there any upper limits to cashing out to a bank account in Belarus? Or are they completely carefree? In Georgia for example crypto is not considered a financial instrument but the banks still ask for proof above 10k USD. Same question for currency.com... any upper limits?

 

[equityone]

Awesome thanks. Are there any upper limits to cashing out to a bank account in Belarus? Or are they completely carefree? In Georgia for example crypto is not considered a financial instrument but the banks still ask for proof above 10k USD. Same question for currency.com... any upper limits?

He’s speaking for standard crypto-fiat exchange, as it can be any of those fore mentioned companies and any other exchange in that regard but only if you had documentation to support your ownership and source of such assets in the first place, which you can’t provide, let alone their kyc and transaction limits.

point is don’t take everything for granted, without even grasping what you actually are looking to achieve here.

 

[equityone]

How he’s suggesting to do it is possible that they will gladly accept your deposit and then railroad you through costumer service and their AML department, and refuse to release any funds on the other end without you completely verifying and supplying the source of such assets, which is the roadblock in the first place that you’re looking to bypass, more so they will have your complete kyc profile if they’re so rigorous expect them to even file a report to your local police department, financial crime unit.

Your btc will be sequestered and lost, you’ll even face charges and investigation so it will be all for nothing.

These are all possible scenarios that should be taken with a grain of salt, idea of it is that tread with caution before even moving.

 

[Plavivoz]

How he’s suggesting to do it is possible that they will gladly accept your deposit and then railroad you through costumer service and their AML department, and refuse to release any funds on the other end without you completely verifying and supplying the source of such assets, which is the roadblock in the first place that you’re looking to bypass, more so they will have your complete kyc profile if they’re so rigorous expect them to even file a report to your local police department, financial crime unit.

Your btc will be sequestered and lost, you’ll even face charges and investigation so it will be all for nothing.

These are all possible scenarios that should be taken with a grain of salt, idea of it is that tread with caution before even moving.

This is just not the whole truth.
Even without source of funds there are a lot of ways how he could sell the crypto and receive the profit to his bank account.
His bigger problem is someone asking for the origin of the crypto. This question is going to pop up one day in the future.

 

[equityone]

Sure, considering how many exchanges/platforms there might be even a few that would accept his btc, but still his initial issue can only be postponed as that day it will come one day and he’s back at square one let alone exposing his kyc.

Why take the risk throwing yourself at the wolves when there are more efficient and future proof solutions...

 

[AltMain]

Awesome thanks. Are there any upper limits to cashing out to a bank account in Belarus? Or are they completely carefree? In Georgia for example crypto is not considered a financial instrument but the banks still ask for proof above 10k USD. Same question for currency.com... any upper limits?

There is no limits, but you will wait for big amount of cash.
Banks wouldn't ask you about where your bitcoins were bought. It's a deal of the HTP platform. If you read Decree N8, you will see, that local laws allows to use p2p trading.
You can always say, that it was bought in 2012 for a low price by p2p.
It's sound fantastic, but it's Belarus.
You can believe or not, but till 2021 there is no taxes on crypto. Many people become officially rich with crypto, without paying anything.

 

[polonieth]

Well, you can do this
1. Open account on currency.com, make exchange to EURO ( you can also use free2ex.com platform)
2. Send directly to your bank ( if you arein Germany, use Fidor Bank )
or
3. Go Belarus ( it's save now ) and flights are cheap, No visa required.
4. Open local account in EURO and send the transaction from currency.com to your account.
Opening account is simple, just your passport.
*In Belarus all crypto is legal and there is no local fees on it. Read Decree N8 from 2017 year.
5. After that you will have docs for your money from the platform and the bank.
6. Send money to your EU account or where you want.

If anyone will ask your for the source, you will have a platform docs and bank docs.

You can only stay 30 days in Belarus and need to quarantine for 10 at the moment.

 

[AltMain]

You can only stay 30 days in Belarus and need to quarantine for 10 at the moment.

You can add days by local register. Cost is low. Also you can fly outside and return back for a new 30 days.
But you don't need more than 30 days.

 

[Junya | 純也]

Great insight Altmain thanks. Im familiar with the Decree... read it a few times in 2018 almost founded a blockchain company in Belarus but ended up in Estonia... My only issue is how reliable is this? Not to discredit but have you done this yourself or know of people who have actually done this? Or is it theoretical and reliant on the decree?

 

[AltMain]

Great insight Altmain thanks. Im familiar with the Decree... read it a few times in 2018 almost founded a blockchain company in Belarus but ended up in Estonia... My only issue is how reliable is this? Not to discredit but have you done this yourself or know of people who have actually done this? Or is it theoretical and reliant on the decree?

I talk about my experience.
For crypto company it's not good jurisdiction. As Estonia is bad for banking.