Spain, portugal, and greece

[santosg]

What happens if a legal permanent resident of spain, portugal, or greece fails to report overseas offshore assets? Would they encounter the same problems as a greencard holder of the u.s.?

 

[Cyprustr]

If you are permanent resident from Spain and you don't do it, you are fucked. And you will lose everything.

 

[santosg]

If you are permanent resident from Spain and you don't do it, you are fucked. And you will lose everything.

How do you know?

 

[Cyprustr]

How do you know?

I'm from Spain. Check model 720 and their penalties.

 

[santosg]

I'm from Spain. Check model 720 and their penalties.

So all of europe is the same or only western europe?

 

[Cyprustr]

So all of europe is the same or only western europe?

I don't know about all Europe. Just I know about Spain.

 

[legrant]

In Spain, as of right now, you have to declare your bank accounts (even with $0 balance), any crypto you own (exchanges, wallets, etc), and probably broker accounts too, but not 100% sure about the last one.

Besides all that, there's the 720 Model as @santosg said, which you have to file if you have over 50k Eur in assets such as money in bank accounts, funds, stocks, property, etc. (Physical gold, jewellery, cash stored in a vault, cars, art, wine and foreign-registered boats are excluded)

Fines for not complying are absurd, starting at around 5k Eur for not declaring your accounts (with a minimum of 10k), 1.5k for declaring them late, and around 10k for each category on the 720 Model. You can also face up to 150% of the value of the assets in fines if you never paid taxes for the assets either. The legality of the 720 Model is questionable and you'll probably be able to take them to court and maybe get a smaller fine, but it'll be a mess and waste of time.

Some of the info above may not be 100% accurate but all I'm saying is if you're a tax resident in Spain and you're doing shady things with a lot of money, get out. If it's low amounts I doubt they'll care.

I don't know about Portugal and Greece, but they will probably both give you big fines if they find out you haven't paid taxes on assets you have in other countries.

 

[Mark Rucken]

In Spain, as of right now, you have to declare your bank accounts (even with $0 balance), any crypto you own (exchanges, wallets, etc), and probably broker accounts too, but not 100% sure about the last one.

Besides all that, there's the 720 Model as @santosg said, which you have to file if you have over 50k Eur in assets such as money in bank accounts, funds, stocks, property, etc. (Physical gold, jewellery, cash stored in a vault, cars, art, wine and foreign-registered boats are excluded)

Fines for not complying are absurd, starting at around 5k Eur for not declaring your accounts (with a minimum of 10k), 1.5k for declaring them late, and around 10k for each category on the 720 Model. You can also face up to 150% of the value of the assets in fines if you never paid taxes for the assets either. The legality of the 720 Model is questionable and you'll probably be able to take them to court and maybe get a smaller fine, but it'll be a mess and waste of time.

Some of the info above may not be 100% accurate but all I'm saying is if you're a tax resident in Spain and you're doing shady things with a lot of money, get out. If it's low amounts I doubt they'll care.

I don't know about Portugal and Greece, but they will probably both give you big fines if they find out you haven't paid taxes on assets you have in other countries.

Brutal.

OP is shook, so he failed to reply.

 

[santosg]

Brutal.

OP is shook, so he failed to reply.

So all of western europe and japan are pretty much the same?

 

[Mark Rucken]

So all of western europe and japan are pretty much the same?

Pretty much. The more developed a country is, they are more strict.

For instance, Croatia is in the EU (since 2013), but they are still not that strict and have not developed such extreme procedures, but they are probably striving to.

 

[santosg]

Pretty much. The more developed a country is, they are more strict.

For instance, Croatia is in the EU (since 2013), but they are still not that strict and have not developed such extreme procedures, but they are probably striving to.

When you say japan and western europe is pretty much the same, what do you mean? Theyre practically the same thing as the six anglo countries mentioned?

 

[legrant]

When you say japan and western europe is pretty much the same, what do you mean? Theyre practically the same thing as the six anglo countries mentioned?

He never said that?

You should start using google instead of posting nonsense all the time.

Most developed countries will ask you to disclose offshore assets. If the amount is low, you shouldn't have any problem not disclosing them (I've mentioned this above with the example of Spain), however, if you're talking about big sums of money/assets, not disclosing them could lead to a lot of problems and fines. Furthermore, if you haven't paid taxes on those assets either, your problem is much bigger and you could end up in jail for a lot of different charges, depending on the mood of the taxman (fraud, tax evasion, money laundering, etc).

So to answer your question, are they the same? Probably not as they'll have different laws. Are they similar? Most likely yes.

 

[RGRG]

In Spain, as of right now, you have to declare your bank accounts (even with $0 balance), any crypto you own (exchanges, wallets, etc), and probably broker accounts too, but not 100% sure about the last one.

Besides all that, there's the 720 Model as @santosg said, which you have to file if you have over 50k Eur in assets such as money in bank accounts, funds, stocks, property, etc. (Physical gold, jewellery, cash stored in a vault, cars, art, wine and foreign-registered boats are excluded)

Fines for not complying are absurd, starting at around 5k Eur for not declaring your accounts (with a minimum of 10k), 1.5k for declaring them late, and around 10k for each category on the 720 Model. You can also face up to 150% of the value of the assets in fines if you never paid taxes for the assets either. The legality of the 720 Model is questionable and you'll probably be able to take them to court and maybe get a smaller fine, but it'll be a mess and waste of time.

Some of the info above may not be 100% accurate but all I'm saying is if you're a tax resident in Spain and you're doing shady things with a lot of money, get out. If it's low amounts I doubt they'll care.

I don't know about Portugal and Greece, but they will probably both give you big fines if they find out you haven't paid taxes on assets you have in other countries.

f**k,, I might look like a clown now... but anyway I have to say it. I'm thinking about moving to Spain with family (coming from Mexico) (still early stages, plan is under development, not yet there)

My general plan is to set up an offshore account in (DUBAI) for long term investments like ( ETFs / VWRL / REITs.. etc.. anything that generate passive income, looking at 8-10% p/year) Plan is to withdraw less than $50k a year from the passive income)
I will be declaring all my accounts, as well as filling my taxes every year in Spain, paying taxes as per below:

-Under Spain Tax Code a Resident has to pay 21% tax for income obtained from interest, investments or dividends, when less than <EU$50k... I have no problem with paying this tax. (However the $50k represents ONLY 30% of the total passive generated income)
-The other 70% will stay invested (thus, is not income). In order to take advantage of the following tax code: under Spain Tax Code, taxes can be deferred on Dividends or Interest that are NOT liquidated and immediately put back into the principal, such a Compounded Interest Investments. Thus, there are no taxes to be paid here (yet), until you actually take money from your investment and put it in your bank. Meaning it can remain invested & compounding/growing without paying taxes on it. Obviously I will be declaring my bank accounts and filing the taxes on time every year and living a normal live under the rules.

1. Do you think this scheme will work for this scenario?
2. Which strategy you consider best for a long term investment 8-10% gains p/year. (compounding)? Withdrawing only $50k p/year
3. Based on your experience & knowledge about Spain and taking in consideration this scenario? Do you recommend any better strategy? (taking into account that family is in the equation, paying 21% tax is OK for me, NOT MORE than this%)

*Taking the Residency and Living in Dubai with Family to enjoy the 0% taxes could be a possibility, but I rather leave this scenario as the 2nd option, since Spain checks all the boxes (language, culture, live style, weather), and if my strategy is validated, I would be paying 10k per year in taxes (minus deductions, insurance, schooling, medicals etc. could be 7-8k per year) which I'm OK with that amount.
*I will need an exit strategy, but that will be in the future for whenever I want to liquidate my entire portfolio (once outside Spain), however, since we are a young family, we are talking about 20years from now (which means we can leave the investment compounding for that time frame, withdrawing only 50k per year/paying only 21% on taxes p/year while keeping the rest of the passive generated income as and addition to the principal to continue) ( I just read about the 'exit tax' in Spain)
*It scares me to read comments here like: "stay away from EU & Spain" "EU tax hell'.. It might be all true, but if you become wealthy with clean money in Mexico, believe me, you are better off in another part of the world, and if this works, living in Spain paying 10k in taxes per year sounds more like a haven for me.

Appreciate any input, comment, recommendation, experience you can share with me...

 

[uplana]

f**k,, I might look like a clown now... but anyway I have to say it. I'm thinking about moving to Spain with family (coming from Mexico) (still early stages, plan is under development, not yet there)

That may be your best option, many relocate to Spain even Europeans. I know some may say it's not worth it but obvious people do.