Thailand 0% tax

[jafo]

Can you please elaborate on how exactly CRS information can potentially be exploited and put an account holder in harm's way?

The same reason Bitcoin/crypto disclosed information is deadly to ANY owner.
Please peruse the following GitHub link and its embedded links: Known Physical Bitcoin Attacks. A list of known attacks against Bitcoin / crypto asset owning entities that occurred in meatspace. NOTE: this list is not comprehensive; many attacks are not publicly reported.

 

[JackAlabama]

The same reason Bitcoin/crypto disclosed information is deadly to ANY owner.
Please peruse the following GitHub link and its embedded links: Known Physical Bitcoin Attacks. A list of known attacks against Bitcoin / crypto asset owning entities that occurred in meatspace. NOTE: this list is not comprehensive; many attacks are not publicly reported.

Good and correct analogy.
Especially problematic are countries which require disclosure of bitcoin/crypto addresses held privately.

 

[scooterguy]

As someone who comes from a corrupt country where kidnappings take place and most of the criminal organizations have links with government officials, CRS is very concerning, and one more reason to stay away from home.

Of course, those who make the rules never care about any of that.

But, just to give some examples to help put things into perspective, having dangerous and corrupt countries such as El Salvador or Venezuela be part of CRS is insane.

 

[JackAlabama]

As someone who comes from a corrupt country where kidnappings take place and most of the criminal organizations have links with government officials, CRS is very concerning, and one more reason to stay away from home.

Of course, those who make the rules never care about any of that.

But, just to give some examples to help put things into perspective, having dangerous and corrupt countries such as El Salvador or Venezuela be part of CRS is insane.

Correct take.
You have quite a few countries known for very decent rule of law and stringent privacy laws in the list, Mexico, Nigeria....

afaik the exchanges are bilateral. There is not one data pool, where info just can be pulled out.
The tax office of the country your bank is in, will send it to the tax office of your residence on file.

 

[backpacker]

Can you please elaborate on how exactly CRS information can potentially be exploited and put an account holder in harm's way?

Aside from the political aspect (see post #319), the by far largest thread is what @JackAlabama described in post #320.

In developing nations the most corrupt employees are in the tax administration. It's easy to get any financial information for a small donation since data is not secured.
Even secured data is not secure, so basic knowledge allows any regional (tax) employee to get the data from "secured" servers in the main administration.
Following just one example of securely stored data ->

Over 1M records from NBI, PNP, other agencies leaked in massive data breach

MANILA, Philippines —A staggering 1,279,437 records belonging to law enforcement agencies, including sensitive police employee information, have been compromised in an unprecedented data breach,

newsinfo.inquirer.net

 

[TheCryptoAnt]

CBI passports looking interesting again ah

 

[elboligrafo]

Correct take.
You have quite a few countries known for very decent rule of law and stringent privacy laws in the list, Mexico, Nigeria....

afaik the exchanges are bilateral. There is not one data pool, where info just can be pulled out.
The tax office of the country your bank is in, will send it to the tax office of your residence on file.

I could be totally wrong, but according to some information I came across on the OECD website, it seems that many of the participating CRS countries signed on to a multilateral agreement (MCAA).

I've been trying to understand the CRS data flow. Is there is a pool of CRS data where any participating country can request the CRS data of any citizen from any country, or is CRS data access restricted to the citizens/tax residents of a requesting country. If the latter is true, the requesting country can hypothetically pretend to be a tax authority for the reportable person as a citizen/tax resident and retrieve their CRS information?

 

[jafo]

In developing nations the most corrupt employees are in the tax administration. It's easy to get any financial information for a small donation since data is not secured.
Even secured data is not secure, so basic knowledge allows any regional (tax) employee to get the data from "secured" servers in the main administration.

100%! This man knows!
This is one of the reasons that I would ship "some" products DAP or DDP (incoterms) to certain countries with payment terms as Consignment without having to worry if I will get paid. . If you know. You know!

Over 1M records from NBI, PNP, other agencies leaked in massive data breach​

NGL, this scared the bejesus out of me.

Thanks for sharing this. The more I know....the better my defense will be.

 

[tickertrader]

Based on discussions this evening, over the past few days with fellow elite, residents, agents, tax advisors, etc....

Dubai looked promising until factor in 9% corporate tax for a corporate i am shareholder off, but has largish returns in 5/10yr ranges.

Personal tax Dubai was ok...

This is based on the Labuan + Malaysia Expatriate Visa.

May be of help to others and perhaps build a community in Malaysia.

Personal Aspect:
Under the MM2H visa, expats are not required to pay tax on their income, no matter where it comes from, as long as it's remitted from overseas. This includes interest earned on income sitting in accounts in Malaysia. Currently cash rates are at 3%, while five-year deposit rates are at 5%.

Commercial Aspect:
The rate of tax imposed is 3% of audited net profits for trading activity and zero percent for non-trading activity, provided that the Labuan entities are in compliance with the tax substantial activity requirements.

*Note i have 0% tax written for Labuan as they want companies in specific fields to move there... fit that bracket, not the same for all, but 3% is ok...

View attachment 5418

Sir, May I ask what's the general operating cost in Malaysia, I would assume you are not the director of the company and have to hire someone else?

 

[backpacker]

I could be totally wrong, but according to some information I came across on the OECD website, it seems that many of the participating CRS countries signed on to a multilateral agreement (MCAA).

I've been trying to understand the CRS data flow. Is there is a pool of CRS data where any participating country can request the CRS data of any citizen from any country, or is CRS data access restricted to the citizens/tax residents of a requesting country. If the latter is true, the requesting country can hypothetically pretend to be a tax authority for the reportable person as a citizen/tax resident and retrieve their CRS information?

You should post this in the relevant CRS thread or simply open a new one.

 

[yngmind]

Wow wow, glad to see how this topic has grown, so much unique info here.

But back to the topic,

Tax residency is defined by calendar year in Thailand, so

Let's imagine I'll be a tax resident of Thailand in June 2024 which is 183 days, what are my options?

- I can transfer the money to Thailand till this date and just use it in the future, and the rest will be just on my offshore bank

But the revenue department did the Q/A where they said:
(2) Non Resident Income: The Order explains that if a person iS not a resident of Thailand during the year in
which they earn income, they do not need to include that income in their tax calculations, even if they bring that
income into Thailand in a subsequent year when they are a resident. For example, Mr. B earns income from a
rental property abroad in a year when he is not considered a resident of Thailand. Then He brings this income
into Thailand in a following year when he is a resident, he is not required to calculate such income as assessable
income and shall not be subjected to taxation in the year that those money brought into Thailand.

So that means if I made my money in 2023 and became a tax resident of Thailand in 2024 and after that brought money to Thailand, I don't have to pay any taxes.


For the following years, I would just use crypto and cash it and pay with cash for everything, there are so many ways to avoid it and I think Thailand will be pretty chill about that.

Could someone please explain to me how the situation with PE will play out here?

I told you that I've visited a law firm in Bangkok, and they told me I'll be liable for a CT because of the PE, but what if the money on the offshore bank account and never remitted to Thailand? So many questions, and so little answers

 

[wellington]

Wow wow, glad to see how this topic has grown, so much unique info here.

But back to the topic,

Tax residency is defined by calendar year in Thailand, so

Let's imagine I'll be a tax resident of Thailand in June 2024 which is 183 days, what are my options?

- I can transfer the money to Thailand till this date and just use it in the future, and the rest will be just on my offshore bank

But the revenue department did the Q/A where they said:
(2) Non Resident Income: The Order explains that if a person iS not a resident of Thailand during the year in
which they earn income, they do not need to include that income in their tax calculations, even if they bring that
income into Thailand in a subsequent year when they are a resident. For example, Mr. B earns income from a
rental property abroad in a year when he is not considered a resident of Thailand. Then He brings this income
into Thailand in a following year when he is a resident, he is not required to calculate such income as assessable
income and shall not be subjected to taxation in the year that those money brought into Thailand.

So that means if I made my money in 2023 and became a tax resident of Thailand in 2024 and after that brought money to Thailand, I don't have to pay any taxes.


For the following years, I would just use crypto and cash it and pay with cash for everything, there are so many ways to avoid it and I think Thailand will be pretty chill about that.

Could someone please explain to me how the situation with PE will play out here?

I told you that I've visited a law firm in Bangkok, and they told me I'll be liable for a CT because of the PE, but what if the money on the offshore bank account and never remitted to Thailand? So many questions, and so little answers

I did a break down of what can be paid overseas by bank transfer/card charge direct to the service provider...

In my case over 45% can be paid from overseas, which is then not remittance but the purchase of a product / service.

Tax then heavily declines.

That's the best way to look at reducing your tax potential.

For the following years, I would just use crypto and cash it and pay with cash for everything, there are so many ways to avoid it and I think Thailand will be pretty chill about that.

Cash will decline as there's an increased adoption of QR like payments (amongst the poor) and a decline in ATM's nationwide (new 7/11's for example rarely have them, when previously they'd have 2-3).

In addition crypto will be reported under the new CRS like system being rolled out.

But the revenue department did the Q/A where they said:
(2) Non Resident Income: The Order explains that if a person iS not a resident of Thailand during the year in
which they earn income, they do not need to include that income in their tax calculations, even if they bring that
income into Thailand in a subsequent year when they are a resident. For example, Mr. B earns income from a
rental property abroad in a year when he is not considered a resident of Thailand. Then He brings this income
into Thailand in a following year when he is a resident, he is not required to calculate such income as assessable
income and shall not be subjected to taxation in the year that those money brought into Thailand.

So that means if I made my money in 2023 and became a tax resident of Thailand in 2024 and after that brought money to Thailand, I don't have to pay any taxes.

The rules as stand - but may be contested in court.

Money brought in from 2024 onwards.

IF there is a dual taxation, and the dual taxation specifically states x money is tax free if remitted -> then its tax free.

Having said that, pensions state/private are all different on the 60+ dual taxation treaties (individual to each state agreement).

For example a UK Private Pension will be taxable in Thailand based on their 'tax rates for income'. likewise savings.

If you can provide evidence these savings already had tax and or is covered under the dual taxation treaty then its tax free.

Otherwise it's taxable within thailand at their income tax band rates.

 

[yngmind]

I did a break down of what can be paid overseas by bank transfer/card charge direct to the service provider...

In my case over 45% can be paid from overseas, which is then not remittance but the purchase of a product / service.

Could you elaborate, you mean paying for local Thai services using your foreign bank accounts would not be considered a remittance rather it’s a purchase of a product? It's sound good.

In addition crypto will be reported under the new CRS like system being rolled out.

There is still will be no KYC exchanges or just p2p guys

Why not just live on that you have remiitted before you became a tax resident in Thailand? The rest just keep offshore, seems like a plan.

I will talk to my lawyer today about that

 

[wellington]

Could you elaborate, you mean paying for local Thai services using your foreign bank accounts would not be considered a remittance rather it’s a purchase of a product? It's sound good.


There is still will be no KYC exchanges or just p2p guys

Why not just live on that you have remiitted before you became a tax resident in Thailand? The rest just keep offshore, seems like a plan.

I will talk to my lawyer today about that

Under the new method of taxation.

Remitting funds from offshore to onshore may or may not result in tax based on dual taxation treaties.

However when purchasing say insurance you'd previously remit the funds to Thailand and pay for said insurance, that would create a taxable event on the remittance and vat.

But if you pay for the insurance from overseas (from account/card) to company you'd only be paying the VAT as you are not remitting said funds because they do not go through you/your bank onshore but from offshore -> to the company.

I verified with the Revenue Department to be specific and strictly to remittance based [money that hit my pocket/bank].

---

Sure any funds remitted before 2024 if earned before 2023 then would be tax free as the new rule view comes into force in 2024.

----
Ref "There is still will be no KYC exchanges or just p2p guys" -> Thailand is moving to 'digital/cbdc' which means they can track everything, cash is in decline a P2P transaction is either cash or via bank deposit -> Bank deposit would flag as taxable, cash wouldn't but then there are a host of issues with that -> for example there is currently a Indian national wanting to do P2P transactions Cash for USDT at 3-500k per day -> obviously laundering -> you give him USDT chances are all associated wallets will be frozen at some point -> criminals (russians, asians) operate in that field and you could end up in a lot of bother... with cash based P2P.

As for non-KYC exchanges - FAFT etc will resolve those over time, i wouldn't bank on.

 

[yngmind]

Sure any funds remitted before 2024 if earned before 2023 then would be tax free as the new rule view comes into force in 2024.

Only if you are a tax resident I mean the new rule will start working once you become a Thai twx resident

We should meet if you are in BKK now, because I am

Ok, then just remitting money before I become a tax resident works for me.

It will be enough for me to live in Thailand for years, plus I will just pay with my foreign card for services, but I think it should be considered a remittance since Im getting the money to the economy

 

[JackAlabama]

Under the new method of taxation.

Remitting funds from offshore to onshore may or may not result in tax based on dual taxation treaties.

However when purchasing say insurance you'd previously remit the funds to Thailand and pay for said insurance, that would create a taxable event on the remittance and vat.

But if you pay for the insurance from overseas (from account/card) to company you'd only be paying the VAT as you are not remitting said funds because they do not go through you/your bank onshore but from offshore -> to the company.

I verified with the Revenue Department to be specific and strictly to remittance based [money that hit my pocket/bank].

---

Sure any funds remitted before 2024 if earned before 2023 then would be tax free as the new rule view comes into force in 2024.

----
Ref "There is still will be no KYC exchanges or just p2p guys" -> Thailand is moving to 'digital/cbdc' which means they can track everything, cash is in decline a P2P transaction is either cash or via bank deposit -> Bank deposit would flag as taxable, cash wouldn't but then there are a host of issues with that -> for example there is currently a Indian national wanting to do P2P transactions Cash for USDT at 3-500k per day -> obviously laundering -> you give him USDT chances are all associated wallets will be frozen at some point -> criminals (russians, asians) operate in that field and you could end up in a lot of bother... with cash based P2P.

As for non-KYC exchanges - FAFT etc will resolve those over time, i wouldn't bank on.

But these processes are so slow, especially in this region. One can just try to book a train ticket online and inspect general competency level
As more of trends move on, self custody will become the norm as intended and will separate state and money. Within a few years fatf will largely become irrelevant as the world splits apart and the current ruling class cannot enforce this any more.

Only if you are a tax resident I mean the new rule will start working once you become a Thai twx resident

We should meet if you are in BKK now, because I am

Ok, then just remitting money before I become a tax resident works for me.

That can be done on an on and off basis, so theres a lot of planning possibilities. half year out, remit 2 years and so on and on.

It will be enough for me to live in Thailand for years, plus I will just pay with my foreign card for services, but I think it should be considered a remittance since Im getting the money to the economy

If you do so, think of exposing this cash to heavy inflation, the biggest tax of them all.

But again, this might get cancelled like malaysia did and prosponed. Same with the cbdc, it seems stuck and does not go forward (to no surprise).

 

[yngmind]

I also think Thailand is so far away from digital payments, they still prefer getting paid in cash.

In the grocery stores, there is a limit 200 baht under that limit you can pay only in cash, everything higher than 200 baht can be paid by card

Thai banks don't support Apple Pay, and lots of terminals at the stores don't accept Apple Pay too.

Quite frequently terminals decline the cards for no reason.

 

[JackAlabama]

also think Thailand is so far away from digital payments, that they still prefer getting paid in cash.

In the grocery stores, there is a limit of only 200 baht you can pay with cards.

Thai banks don't support Apple Pay, and lots of terminals at the stores don't accept Apple Pay too.

Quite frequently terminals decline the cards for no reason.

to be fair, the qr system works overall quite well. afaik it will be that one to be used.
But then, what do they do with all the foreigners which cannot open accounts? They will be left alone.

The cbdc end game in the plan revealed in my lluminati powered crystal ball 3000 looks to be only applied to the poor unwashed masses.
The recent announcement (70k income, 500k wealth) points towards that as well.

 

[yngmind]

to be fair, the qr system works overall quite well. afaik it will be that one to be used.
But then, what do they do with all the foreigners which cannot open accounts? They will be left alone.

The cbdc end game in the plan revealed in my lluminati powered crystal ball 3000 looks to be only applied to the poor unwashed masses.
The recent announcement (70k income, 500k wealth) points towards that as well.

Never paid here with Qr, you just ask them
For the Qr and the payment is made with your local bank?

 

[JackAlabama]

Never paid here with Qr, you just ask them
For the Qr and the payment is made with your local bank?

yeh pretty much that. the qr is then displayed on the terminal or printed out the receipt.
Other countries have the same ux with that.