Thailand 0% tax

[JackAlabama]

Just a point of note

There's been a lot of discussion (here i think) and elsewhere about utilising ATM withdrawals.

There is an issue with this idea, and I'll explain what it is.

Set aside that cards can be linked to you via CRS or via KYC information with the card provider, this i am not referring to and is well known going back quite a few years.

I am referring to cards without a Identity assigned to them, lets say dark cards.

In Thailand all ATM's capture your face when withdrawing, this information is stored/archived in their backend system, this information can be automated into under a 30 seconds for facial recognition, which can tie against your Immigration capture (yes every-time you pass through a immigration checkpoint they capture you even if you are not aware - i've seen the Thai interpol system access and FBI equivalent system in Thailand first hand).

Second people may laud at the idea of Thailand and Facial recognition, I won't because most of the staff that went on to build out the Thai AI system(s) for intel, counter-intel etc used to work for my company and on leaving or interning and qualifying a lot went to the Government.

The process for tying a ANON Card + Face + Immigration + CRS information = under 1minute flat.

It also doesn't take much to blacklist a card from the system...

So i would think again on that approach if considering.

If you have assets or a place of centre in Thailand this would be highly risky.

If not then potential fines, amol, prison, deportation etc (trust me you don't want to get on the bad-side of the revenue department, or Anti-Money Laundering department of Thailand).


Penang i went to about a decade ago.

I think (or Johor) it would be suitable, note we will only be using to get around this idiotic new policy (-180 days Thailand) in a tax event year, the Company move to Labuan and power/control transfer was always on the cards due to polarised world and the policies coming into control the flow of technology.

So as to benefit as a shareholder but ultimately not breach any national or international laws based on the market segregation within the confines of international law (West will restrict AI for control, Global South will embrace it).

I (me) personally live off savings but now savings can be considered taxable ~35% because I used to live in a Tax haven rather than say the countries where the tax treaties exist.

So roughing it, with the ability to head to Thailand for a weekend etc, as well as Indonesia/HK/SG is the main reason Malaysia has appeal outside of the structuring of personal or commercial.

Dubai i was in previously and it was soul crushing... + tax commercial too high.

Hard to stomach such ai stuff actually works given how other systems and the overall state of maintenance is.
Does their Ai face thingy even works with facemasks on?

 

[jafo]

Hard to stomach such ai stuff actually works given how other systems and the overall state of maintenance is.
Does their Ai face thingy even works with facemasks on?

This! What a coincidence you mentioned this right now. About 2 hours ago, I read an article a former professor sent me about AI/facial recognition. This one: When Artificial Intelligence Gets It Wrong - Innocence Project

Maybe @wellington can chime in on this. I'm now curious...

 

[JackAlabama]

This! What a coincidence you mentioned this right now. About 2 hours ago, I read an article a former professor sent me about AI/facial recognition. This one: When Artificial Intelligence Gets It Wrong - Innocence Project

Maybe @wellington can chime in on this. I'm now curious...

2y ago, I also had a small startup which involved a face rec use case. But Im not up to date on this now and given tech evolves so fast I do not know the exact state of affairs in ai face rec today. So would appreciate @wellington input.

 

[banafinfodafuggiano]

Just a point of note

There's been a lot of discussion (here i think) and elsewhere about utilising ATM withdrawals.

There is an issue with this idea, and I'll explain what it is.

Set aside that cards can be linked to you via CRS or via KYC information with the card provider, this i am not referring to and is well known going back quite a few years.

I am referring to cards without a Identity assigned to them, lets say dark cards.

In Thailand all ATM's capture your face when withdrawing, this information is stored/archived in their backend system, this information can be automated into under a 30 seconds for facial recognition, which can tie against your Immigration capture (yes every-time you pass through a immigration checkpoint they capture you even if you are not aware - i've seen the Thai interpol system access and FBI equivalent system in Thailand first hand).

Second people may laud at the idea of Thailand and Facial recognition, I won't because most of the staff that went on to build out the Thai AI system(s) for intel, counter-intel etc used to work for my company and on leaving or interning and qualifying a lot went to the Government.

The process for tying a ANON Card + Face + Immigration + CRS information = under 1minute flat.

It also doesn't take much to blacklist a card from the system...

So i would think again on that approach if considering.

If you have assets or a place of centre in Thailand this would be highly risky.

If not then potential fines, amol, prison, deportation etc (trust me you don't want to get on the bad-side of the revenue department, or Anti-Money Laundering department of Thailand).


Penang i went to about a decade ago.

I think (or Johor) it would be suitable, note we will only be using to get around this idiotic new policy (-180 days Thailand) in a tax event year, the Company move to Labuan and power/control transfer was always on the cards due to polarised world and the policies coming into control the flow of technology.

So as to benefit as a shareholder but ultimately not breach any national or international laws based on the market segregation within the confines of international law (West will restrict AI for control, Global South will embrace it).

I (me) personally live off savings but now savings can be considered taxable ~35% because I used to live in a Tax haven rather than say the countries where the tax treaties exist.

So roughing it, with the ability to head to Thailand for a weekend etc, as well as Indonesia/HK/SG is the main reason Malaysia has appeal outside of the structuring of personal or commercial.

Dubai i was in previously and it was soul crushing... + tax commercial too high.

All the stuff you just said could be easily stopped by using a Covid Face mask + sunglasses + sunnie hat when withdrawing from an ATM.

 

[fshore]

Based on my interpretation if you don't remit its tax free.

Yes no tax if not remitted to Malaysia.
Remains to be seen if Thailand will tax income that is not remitted.

 

[Berti]

Just a point of note

There's been a lot of discussion (here i think) and elsewhere about utilising ATM withdrawals.

There is an issue with this idea, and I'll explain what it is.

Set aside that cards can be linked to you via CRS or via KYC information with the card provider, this i am not referring to and is well known going back quite a few years.

I am referring to cards without a Identity assigned to them, lets say dark cards.

In Thailand all ATM's capture your face when withdrawing, this information is stored/archived in their backend system, this information can be automated into under a 30 seconds for facial recognition, which can tie against your Immigration capture (yes every-time you pass through a immigration checkpoint they capture you even if you are not aware - i've seen the Thai interpol system access and FBI equivalent system in Thailand first hand).

Second people may laud at the idea of Thailand and Facial recognition, I won't because most of the staff that went on to build out the Thai AI system(s) for intel, counter-intel etc used to work for my company and on leaving or interning and qualifying a lot went to the Government.

The process for tying a ANON Card + Face + Immigration + CRS information = under 1minute flat.

It also doesn't take much to blacklist a card from the system...

So i would think again on that approach if considering.

If you have assets or a place of centre in Thailand this would be highly risky.

If not then potential fines, amol, prison, deportation etc (trust me you don't want to get on the bad-side of the revenue department, or Anti-Money Laundering department of Thailand).


Penang i went to about a decade ago.

I think (or Johor) it would be suitable, note we will only be using to get around this idiotic new policy (-180 days Thailand) in a tax event year, the Company move to Labuan and power/control transfer was always on the cards due to polarised world and the policies coming into control the flow of technology.

So as to benefit as a shareholder but ultimately not breach any national or international laws based on the market segregation within the confines of international law (West will restrict AI for control, Global South will embrace it).

I (me) personally live off savings but now savings can be considered taxable ~35% because I used to live in a Tax haven rather than say the countries where the tax treaties exist.

So roughing it, with the ability to head to Thailand for a weekend etc, as well as Indonesia/HK/SG is the main reason Malaysia has appeal outside of the structuring of personal or commercial.

Dubai i was in previously and it was soul crushing... + tax commercial too high.

If Thailand turns into this kind of perfect surveillance state with overtaxing, then it‘s time to leave anyway.
But as already mentioned, you don‘t stand out here wearing a face mask.

 

[wellington]

All the stuff you just said could be easily stopped by using a Covid Face mask + sunglasses + sunnie hat when withdrawing from an ATM.

They'd just block the ATM and the Revenue-AMOL team would look at nearby CCTV if its big enough...

Thai government is like this where tax is concerned.

Price given (pulled out of arse).
Price rejected
Price increases

Yes no tax if not remitted to Malaysia.
Remains to be seen if Thailand will tax income that is not remitted.

For someone intending to live in Thailand long-term, this is ideal.

Malaysia fits the requirements my end... serves the purpose, plus the Gov are offering incentives for corp Labuan in the field we operate in.

If Thailand turns into this kind of perfect surveillance state with overtaxing, then it‘s time to leave anyway.
But as already mentioned, you don‘t stand out here wearing a face mask.

Thailand has a strong but decentralised cluster surveillance system, its all coming together, lot of it was started in 2019 when the police started going to China to learn best practices (a friend was part of that).

Then at the same time, the US is pushing taxation aspects, so you have the two coming together...

This! What a coincidence you mentioned this right now. About 2 hours ago, I read an article a former professor sent me about AI/facial recognition. This one: When Artificial Intelligence Gets It Wrong - Innocence Project

Maybe @wellington can chime in on this. I'm now curious...

To say the least there's biased aspects, and AI isn't perfect, our system was trained on data from IBM which was the largest at the time, that evolved (that was about 5-10yrs ago).

Where people need to be concerned...

There's 400-600,000 resident non citizens in Thailand.

They are comparing against that, not 66m Thai citizens, the failure rate comes dramatically down.

Hard to stomach such ai stuff actually works given how other systems and the overall state of maintenance is.
Does their Ai face thingy even works with facemasks on?

As someone from the field, i yearn for a country to ban technology past a point (10yrs ago)...

When you see the capabilities in various avenues, its frightening for authoritarian use, and we increasingly see those applications by our own states...

 

[JackAlabama]

They'd just block the ATM and the Revenue-AMOL team would look at nearby CCTV if its big enough...

Thai government is like this where tax is concerned.

Price given (pulled out of arse).
Price rejected
Price increases


For someone intending to live in Thailand long-term, this is ideal.

Malaysia fits the requirements my end... serves the purpose, plus the Gov are offering incentives for corp Labuan in the field we operate in.


Thailand has a strong but decentralised cluster surveillance system, its all coming together, lot of it was started in 2019 when the police started going to China to learn best practices (a friend was part of that).

Then at the same time, the US is pushing taxation aspects, so you have the two coming together...


To say the least there's biased aspects, and AI isn't perfect, our system was trained on data from IBM which was the largest at the time, that evolved (that was about 5-10yrs ago).

Where people need to be concerned...

There's 400-600,000 resident non citizens in Thailand.

They are comparing against that, not 66m Thai citizens, the failure rate comes dramatically down.


As someone from the field, i yearn for a country to ban technology past a point (10yrs ago)...

When you see the capabilities in various avenues, its frightening for authoritarian use, and we increasingly see those applications by our own states...

Indeed, its very frightening in real life, but with all tech you need hardworking somewhat smart workers running it. I could imagine it working well in Germany, Japan, HK, Singapore and maybe China (lets give them the benefit of the doubt here) for that matter.

However, given the overall state of infrastructure and maintenance in Thailand (did not someone just die on an escalator or smth like that recently?), I find it hard to imagine how they can run such complex systems. I traveled frequently to that region and imo none of the countries except sinapore seems to be able to pull off such a thing.
Do you have insights on this?

 

[jafo]

I find it hard to imagine how they can run such complex systems.

100% True! Also, I find it hard to believe enforcing some "rules" put in place that will directly harm my economic outcome. I wouldn't, but so many people, for one reason or another, do that...it boggles my mind. The same people later complain they aren't doing well financially. It's ANALogous to curb or even stop the feeding on my chickens (eggs) and cows (milk) to appease some d*mb*ss 1000s of kms away because over there they "voted", did a ritual, and renamed their man-made delusions "law".

This irrationality ALWAYS reminds me of this funny story: https://medium.com/@flowingwp/show-him-your-badge-a-humorous-texas-tale-c301d71d5eff

 

[Puzel12]

What if you keep all funds and invest through offshore company like Estonia or Cyprus with nominee director? Isn't it good enough to have your income taxed less or not at all in the case of Estonia?
Then you can withdraw only funds that are required for living.

 

[Marzio]

Indeed this is the safest option right now since income isn't in a personal bank account but in a business bank account and with Estonia in particular you could remit tax free salary in Thaialnd that you will use for daily expenses.

 

[Puzel12]

Indeed this is the safest option right now since income isn't in a personal bank account but in a business bank account and with Estonia in particular you could remit tax free salary in Thaialnd that you will use for daily expenses.

How can you remit tax free salary to Thailand? they will tax all income and you cannot work while being in Thailand, you can take dividends. Are you sure?

 

[Marzio]

How can you remit tax free salary to Thailand?

Tax free salary means that Estonia doesn't impose taxes on salaries paid offshore.

Of course that salary will be taxed in Thailand since you are bringing that income in Thaialnd.

If you instead get paid by the Estonian company with dividends you will pay taxes on dividends distributed in Estonia AND personal income taxes in Thailand.

 

[Don]

Tax free salary means that Estonia doesn't impose taxes on salaries paid offshore.

Of course that salary will be taxed in Thailand since you are bringing that income in Thaialnd.

If you instead get paid by the Estonian company with dividends you will pay taxes on dividends distributed in Estonia AND personal income taxes in Thailand.

Technically, you can also lend yourself money, but it's prohibited with a private limited company. You can however do it with a general partnership, which works the same way as a company.
Estonia actually offers way more possibilities for tax structuring that are largely unutilized and unknown.

Cyprus is also a decent option if you relocate there, use it as a holding/trading securities, benefit from the IP box regime, or need it for some cross-border structuring.

 

[Puzel12]

Technically, you can also lend yourself money, but it's prohibited with a private limited company. You can however do it with a general partnership, which works the same way as a company.
Estonia actually offers way more possibilities for tax structuring that are largely unutilized and unknown.

Cyprus is also a decent option if you relocate there, use it as a holding/trading securities, benefit from the IP box regime, or need it for some cross-border structuring.

As I understand there is not really a legal way to have nominee director for Estonian company, while there is for Cyprus company. Is it right?
Would you say keeping money in Cyprus or Estonian company will fix the problem with remittance based taxation in Thailand? There is still no CFC in Thailand, so is there any way Thailand will find out about the company?

 

[JackAlabama]

As I understand there is not really a legal way to have nominee director for Estonian company, while there is for Cyprus company. Is it right?
Would you say keeping money in Cyprus or Estonian company will fix the problem with remittance based taxation in Thailand? There is still no CFC in Thailand, so is there any way Thailand will find out about the company?

No, this is a typical half way thought thru shot very common in this region (or other similar regions for that matter). The topic itself is an insanely complex one.
They either take an easy way out or overhaul the whole tax code or prospone that futile exercise.

The easy way out is to just chip away from all transactions coming in as bitkub to bank is doing right now. I cant verify this bitkub story so Ill take a friends word for that.
You are then going to file to get tax credits back for funds where you have paid tax elsewhere.

 

[Puzel12]

No, this is a typical half way thought thru shot very common in this region (or other similar regions for that matter). The topic itself is an insanely complex one.
They either take an easy way out or overhaul the whole tax code or prospone that futile exercise.

The easy way out is to just chip away from all transactions coming in as bitkub to bank is doing right now. I cant verify this bitkub story so Ill take a friends word for that.
You are then going to file to get tax credits back for funds where you have paid tax elsewhere.

How will thai authorities know about the company if there is no CFC? Can't just keep the whole wealth under company offshore (example Cyprus / Estonia).

 

[scooterguy]

The new rule will only affect money that is remitted into Thailand.

In other words, they just removed the clause that allowed to delay transferring money into Thailand in order for it to be tax-free, but income that is not remitted into Thailand will remain untaxed.

Thailand: New interpretation of foreign-sourced income brought into Thailand by Thai tax residents

Foreign-sourced income brought into Thailand from 1 January 2024 onwards will be subject to Thai individual income tax

kpmg.com

 

[Marzio]

income that is not remitted into Thailand will remain untaxed

Good news at last!

 

[Don]

Specifically, this amendment focuses on individuals who possess assessable income arising from employment, business activities conducted abroad, or properties situated outside Thailand. Under the revised framework, these individuals will be subject to personal income tax obligations in Thailand only when their assessable income is brought into the country. However, if an income earner has already paid taxes in their country of income origin, provided there is a Double Tax Agreement in place between Thailand and that country, the income earner can utilize the taxes paid in the country of origin as a tax credit, following the provisions outlined in the respective Double Tax Agreement.

Heres a quite thorough article about the amendment: The Revenue Department Closes Loopholes, Tightening Tax Collection on Foreign Income - MPG