Thailand new change - world wide income at Thai tax levels to be taxed

[Inuendo]

today an option, tomorrow a fairy tale. Nothing for sure now. Many ideas, most disappear, this is Thailand

 

[JackAlabama]

Kudos to the the chinese as they know well how to handle countries like that. Without going into more details on a public forum, Italy is exactly the same "case study".

 

[Berti]

I think no worries. . they dont have the staff to hunt down small fish . . they will target the Chines and high networth folks. . ,
I been tax resident in TH for 19yrs i dont even have a TIN there..hmm...

I think the first sign will be the Thai banks. Most expats opened their bank accounts as "residents" in Thailand. But up to now none of the banks requested a TIN from me or my friends here.

As soon as Thai banks request TIN's, you know it's time to be more careful.

 

[wellington]

I think the first sign will be the Thai banks. Most expats opened their bank accounts as "residents" in Thailand. But up to now none of the banks requested a TIN from me or my friends here.

As soon as Thai banks request TIN's, you know it's time to be more careful.

No, Thai Banks don't need a TIN as your passport number is taken, and that is collaborated with IO who in return collaborate electronically with AMOL, and Revenue Department.

They do CRS as by default they report overseas but also domestically, as it's all funnelled through Revenue Department.

 

[Berti]

No, Thai Banks don't need a TIN as your passport number is taken, and that is collaborated with IO who in return collaborate electronically with AMOL, and Revenue Department.

They do CRS as by default they report overseas but also domestically, as it's all funnelled through Revenue Department.

The only question is why you need a TIN to do a tax declaration if the revenue department works with your passport number? Sounds a bit unlogical. And passport numbers change and are no unique numbers.

They do CRS overseas without TIN? I heard this very often but nobody could prove this up to now.

 

[wellington]

The only question is why you need a TIN to do a tax declaration if the revenue department works with your passport number? Sounds a bit unlogical. And passport numbers change and are no unique numbers.

They do CRS overseas without TIN? I heard this very often but nobody could prove this up to now.

You need a TIN to do a tax declaration

In the future perhaps you will need a TIN for your account but not currently and everything is shared anyway

The only question is why you need a TIN to do a tax declaration if the revenue department works with your passport number? Sounds a bit unlogical. And passport numbers change and are no unique numbers.

They do CRS overseas without TIN? I heard this very often but nobody could prove this up to now.

Via passport numbers your bank uses and via passport numbers for CRS

Even my 12 yr old SCB Credit Card gets a credit score annually through the post from the credit bureau and it has my passport number on

OTC desk also

Now you could play the system if they didn’t ask for visa stamps for financial institutions lol

 

[jafo]

They do CRS as by default they report overseas but also domestically

Report to whom?
I have several EU passports (due to my parents—early 70s, so before all the controlling bullsh1t surfaced).
I was NOT born in any of those EU countries.
I have NEVER EVER lived in any of those EU countries.
I have never registered.
I never went to school there.
I have NO properties in any of those countries.
There are NO records of me in those countries.
What do they report?
What does the government do when it receives reports of citizens who are nowhere to be found on its soil and who are NOT residents?

PS. I've asked this question before and nobody has had an answer.

PSS. I'm starting to think my dad was smarter than I give him credit for.

 

[yomboloz]

@wellington just out of curiousity did you get a Thai LTR visa based on real estate investment?

 

[wellington]

@wellington just out of curiousity did you get a Thai LTR visa based on real estate investment?

Initially I came in as part of a 100m$ property development team member

That was a work permit

The investor visa then elite

In between I’ve had exempts as I came and went and briefly a marriage visa

 

[JackAlabama]

Report to whom?

normally only to the residence which you put on file in the crs form (including visa). If they take it easy to passport country too (like here) and if they are overly zealous spying cuçnts according to indicia (phone no, standing instructions, heavy usage).

I have several EU passports (due to my parents—early 70s, so before all the controlling bullsh1t surfaced).

I was NOT born in any of those EU countries.
I have NEVER EVER lived in any of those EU countries.
I have never registered.
I never went to school there.
I have NO properties in any of those countries.
There are NO records of me in those countries.
What do they report?

some account info according to the oecd guidelines to your passport info. This info is public and can be found.

What does the government do when it receives reports of citizens who are nowhere to be found on its soil and who are NOT residents?

Nothing. They are lazy incompetent bureaucrats in 90% of cases and mostly cannot even speak english properly (if in a non-english country). So you have it good with Eu passports . So they wont call anywhere since its not their job anyway.

Imagine this whole garbage pile of data they get and no one knows really whats up with all this data and how its being presented.

PS. I've asked this question before and nobody has had an answer.

PSS. I'm starting to think my dad was smarter than I give him credit for.

indeed. Id say so

 

[jafo]

normally only to the residence which you put on file in the crs form (including visa). If they take it easy to passport country too (like here) and if they are overly zealous spying cuçnts according to indicia (phone no, standing instructions, heavy usage).

some account info according to the oecd guidelines to your passport info. This info is public and can be found.

Nothing. They are lazy incompetent bureaucrats in 90% of cases and mostly cannot even speak english properly (if in a non-english country). So you have it good with Eu passports . So they wont call anywhere since its not their job anyway.

Imagine this whole garbage pile of data they get and no one knows really whats up with all this data and how its being presented.

indeed. Id say so

This is most certainly helpful!
Thank you!

 

[wellington]

I think the first sign will be the Thai banks. Most expats opened their bank accounts as "residents" in Thailand. But up to now none of the banks requested a TIN from me or my friends here.

As soon as Thai banks request TIN's, you know it's time to be more careful.

Not sure this is accurate

When I first opened an account I dropped 50,000 THB in pounds on day of arrival on to the bank desk and bought insurance

The address taken was a hotel address

It wasn’t until Covid they started becoming friction based due to the gambling and mule accounts

Basically the Chinese fucked it for everyone

Up until Covid you could withdraw 10,000$ from an ATM in one transaction…

Now it’s about 500$ also branches closing etc my local one closes soon.

 

[jafo]

Basically the Chinese fucked it for everyone

Yes. Some of them...their mindset is completely illogical to me. Also, they drank the Kool-Aid about the West being the beacon of democracy and everything is allowed etc etc. So, they think that everything is allowed outside China. It drives me nuts!

 

[yomboloz]

Initially I came in as part of a 100m$ property development team member

That was a work permit

The investor visa then elite

In between I’ve had exempts as I came and went and briefly a marriage visa

Ah I see, I was under the impression you have a LTR visa at the moment, so I guess if you don't want to pay tax in thailand in case they start taking worldwide unremmited income need to either get a LTR visa OR spend less than 180 days here.

 

[wellington]

Ah I see, I was under the impression you have a LTR visa at the moment, so I guess if you don't want to pay tax in thailand in case they start taking worldwide unremmited income need to either get a LTR visa OR spend less than 180 days here.

Nah, if you have savings pre-2024 then its still tax free (grandfathered in) and if you don't have savings from before then you can legally gift your wife tax free upto 20m THB (or kids each) per year.

For me i own a % of a overseas company and am not involved in the day to day, obtain dividends every 5-10 yrs so for me its just a case of doing some trips when my next dividends hit, and they will be taxable if i remit them, or non-taxable if i gift them.

Aside from that as mentioned i receive dividends every 5-10 yrs which means i am living on savings, which as mentioned are tax free, but if for example i've invested some of said funds, i can liquidated those positions, and remit the principle to Thailand tax free, but if i remit the capital gain then that is taxable.

Hope that makes it easier.

As for world-wide un-remitted income this one is easy for me, as said, i own % of company but am not involved in the day-to-day, additionally i don't see a income/salary.

So there's only potentially tax if they tax world wide in the year i get dividends, as my dividends are basically deferred till the company does a dividends, then in that year i can mooch in say Bali, HK, Kenya for a bit and Thailand, and it would be tax free but if i remit said funds they would be taxable if i am in the country more than 180 days (obviously if i am paid dividends when not in Thailand 180+ days - dividend year) then remit said funds they'd also not be tax free.

Hope that helps you understand the best approach.

 

[yomboloz]

Nah, if you have savings pre-2024 then its still tax free (grandfathered in) and if you don't have savings from before then you can legally gift your wife tax free upto 20m THB (or kids each) per year.

For me i own a % of a overseas company and am not involved in the day to day, obtain dividends every 5-10 yrs so for me its just a case of doing some trips when my next dividends hit, and they will be taxable if i remit them, or non-taxable if i gift them.

Aside from that as mentioned i receive dividends every 5-10 yrs which means i am living on savings, which as mentioned are tax free, but if for example i've invested some of said funds, i can liquidated those positions, and remit the principle to Thailand tax free, but if i remit the capital gain then that is taxable.

Hope that makes it easier.

As for world-wide un-remitted income this one is easy for me, as said, i own % of company but am not involved in the day-to-day, additionally i don't see a income/salary.

So there's only potentially tax if they tax world wide in the year i get dividends, as my dividends are basically deferred till the company does a dividends, then in that year i can mooch in say Bali, HK, Kenya for a bit and Thailand, and it would be tax free but if i remit said funds they would be taxable if i am in the country more than 180 days (obviously if i am paid dividends when not in Thailand 180+ days - dividend year) then remit said funds they'd also not be tax free.

Hope that helps you understand the best approach.

Yep that makes sense, thank you. Sadly I didn't distribute much dividends pre 2024, so thinking about going for the LTR global wealthy citizen and just paying tax on the 500k$ remmited.
Currently waiting for someone I hired to analyze the DTA between my country and Thailand to see what the total cost would be. Can you reccomend a good tax consultant in thailand?

 

[wellington]

Basically the new rules, are out to hit those working within Thailand but for overseas companies they work for or own.

Yep that makes sense, thank you. Sadly I didn't distribute much dividends pre 2024, so thinking about going for the LTR global wealthy citizen and just paying tax on the 500k$ remmited.
Currently waiting for someone I hired to analyze the DTA between my country and Thailand to see what the total cost would be. Can you reccomend a good tax consultant in thailand?

HLB International Thailand - Kwanchai if he's still there (might have retired)

You might want to look at the Investor Visa, i had that previously, i am unsure if funds remitted today would be considered taxable.

With that you can also buy upto Half A Rai in your own name (or could - might be bigger now) and it's locked in treated the same as Thai

They've also reduced the 'investment' criteria from 40m THB to 10m THB.

 

[yomboloz]

Basically the new rules, are out to hit those working within Thailand but for overseas companies they work for or own.


HLB International Thailand - Kwanchai if he's still there (might have retired)

You might want to look at the Investor Visa, i had that previously, i am unsure if funds remitted today would be considered taxable.

With that you can also buy upto Half A Rai in your own name (or could - might be bigger now) and it's locked in treated the same as Thai

They've also reduced the 'investment' criteria from 40m THB to 10m THB.

Thank you, will check HLB out.

Yeah, that's a nice benefit of the Investor visa being able to actually own land, however it does not come with the LTR's tax exemption status, which for me is worth it(if it remains in the future, and if they start taxing even unremmited income).

 

[toums]

So there's only potentially tax if they tax world wide in the year i get dividends, as my dividends are basically deferred till the company does a dividends, then in that year i can mooch in say Bali, HK, Kenya for a bit and Thailand, and it would be tax free but if i remit said funds they would be taxable if i am in the country more than 180 days (obviously if i am paid dividends when not in Thailand 180+ days - dividend year) then remit said funds they'd also not be tax free.

So what are you saying is even if you receive your dividends a year you stay less than 180days in Thailand (so no tax resident), if you want to remit them in TH it will be taxed, even if remitted this same year you are not TH resident ?

(i am not talking about gift/donation to wife-kids)

 

[wellington]

So what are you saying is even if you receive your dividends a year you stay less than 180days in Thailand (so no tax resident), if you want to remit then in TH it will be taxed, even if remitted this same year you are not TH resident ?

(i am not talking about gift/donation to wife-kids)

No if out of the country 180+ days in a tax year tax free.