The Day of Judgment - Apple's 13bn€ EU Tax Bill

[Tax Cow]

Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2020-07-15/decision-day-for-apple-brussels-edition
1. The decision is due today. How do you think it'll go?

At least the stock price is up on all relevant fronts (on the day, on the week, and on the month) which suggests that the decision is positive for Apple, or that in case of a negative judgment, there has been no tipping off.

2. EU COMMUNISSION to announce a plan for taxation overhaul to combat fraud and ease the administrative burden across the trading block.

The only announcement I'm a little concerned about is a forced centralization of tax adminiatration. They could abuse the COVID-19 crisis to force the migration to a common tax base they've wanted for so long but couldn't get.

 

[khinkali]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...against-15-billion-eu-tax-order-idUSKCN24G10B


Now they should attempt EU Fiscal Union publicly and democratically and accept if the answer is "no".

 

[Martin Everson]

The only announcement I'm a little concerned about is a forced centralization of tax adminiatration. They could abuse the COVID-19 crisis to force the migration to a common tax base they've wanted for so long but couldn't get.

EU Fiscal Union is a certainty sadly.

"If fiscal union were to happen, national expenditure and tax rates would be set at European Council level"

I believe I discussed this before. It is just a case of how they will sell it to some EU member states who may be resistant or hesitant. I wonder how they would do that......

......Oh wait they plan on scrapping EU member states right to veto on tax policy...lol. No wonder UK left the block.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...opean-commission-brexit-ireland-a8729396.html
P.S Get out of EU while you still can.

 

[Tax Cow]

Nothing to argue here! The EU does crave for a Fiscal Union.

My BUT is that even the most reckless commie would not force it all at once. The tax base harmonizarion, a stepping-stone, would give all rule-setting authority to the EU while still allowing for the member states to set the tax rate numbers for their territory; effectively lubricating for the end goal: tax base + tax rate harmonization, which I think is still many years away!

 

[Martin Everson]

I think the EU is just a financial crisis away from EU tax harmonization. The ECB prints the money and every Eurozone member has huge debt in it. They already have no financial independence - ask Greece . It is just a timing issue over when this will happen. People forget the German's that have huge sway in EU see other countries in EU as irresponsible fools lacking the fiscal prudence of the German state .

 

[Tax Cow]

Fragments could fall off from the north (Ireland or Netherlands losing rights to attract big tech with tax games)

Fragments could fall out from the center (Germany getting tired of carrying the zombies)

Fragments could fall off from the south (Greece, Italy and Spain unable to compete with Turkey, Egypt, Morocco, non-EU Balkans in attracting export businesses due to relative strength of Euro compared to those toilet papers)

We'll see! Interesting times ahead

 

[Martin Everson]

Eurozone countries have zero chance of leaving the EU if they wanted too. Their best bet is coordinated civil disobedience of EU rules with other like minded countries. The EU has very little tools by which to enforce anything on a member state other than monetary punishment and removal of certain access and rights. However all this can be ignored by a dissenting member state as there is no European army to enforce anything the EU tell it to do.....


......Oh wait a minute what was that....German chancellor talking about the EU needing its own Army . For what does the EU need an army??? An EU army to use solely against a dissenting EU country is what they need it for.

The day of dissent and disorder will fall upon the EU in the end as the ever closer union premise of the EU stifles all freedoms and privacy.

"The Heads of State or Government, on the basis of an awareness of a common destiny and the wish to affirm the European identity, confirm their commitment to progress towards an ever closer union among the peoples and Member States of the European Community. "

 

[Tax Cow]

Comrade, let me correct that! Anyone still could leave, following the steps of the UK. Article 50 in Lisbon Treaty remains in tact. (or did they secretly tear out the page in Porto Treaty?)

With the EU army established, the EU deniers will start to enjoy Gulag of some sort. That's quite likely.

 

[Martin Everson]

Comrade, let me correct that! Anyone still could leave, following the steps of the UK. Article 50 in Lisbon Treaty remains in tact. (or did they secretly tear out the page in Porto Treaty?)

The UK has its own currency and does not have borders with EU except in Northern Ireland. A Eurozone member whose central bank has given over full control to the ECB and whose currency is the euro has little chance of leaving like UK. A lot was mentioned of states leaving the EU during the last financial crisis particularly the PIGS i.e Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain. That was all public fantasy and media hype with even clueless banks writing fake articles on such a breakup to sell investment services.

The reality is eurozone members don't have their own currency like UK. They cannot reinstall their own currency with euro denominated debt which UK does not have. Eurozone members don't even licence their own banks - as eurozone banks are licensed by ECB. The reality is the entanglement is deep they are ENSLAVED to the EU. The UK got out while it still could. Ask Greece they had zero chance of leaving EU despite their posturing....lol.

With the EU army established, the EU deniers will start to enjoy Gulag of some sort. That's quite likely.

It will be a Gulag. I don't think people will realise how bad things will get in EU. Next is EU ID card coming which will be sold to public as a one stop solution to access to all EU services including bank account openings etc. People will fall for the convenience and sleep walk into a totalitarian system of governing that will make China seems like free market Georgia.

 

[Tax Cow]

I'm badly offtopic (sry admin, this is the last OT question ! It's ok if it's moved to "talk about everything").

Martin, what do you think will be the outcome to the situation in Greece?

When Greece first made headlines several years ago, I was sure that they'll leave the monetary union (ditch the Euro), readopt their own currency, say to lenders that we'll either default on our bonds, or we will re-denominate debt to pay it back in our own currency, which ofcourse would be devaluated aggressively over the term.

And none of this happened.

Somehow, some way, Germany convinced other states that they should take their tax payer's money and invest it in new Greek bonds. Finance ministers across the EU sold the loan to a borrower on its last breath as an "excellent" and "profitable" investment opportunity. LOL!

Those scams are bound to get more ridiculous over time. Is it realistic to roll over current loans with new ones indefinitely?

 

[Martin Everson]

When Greece first made headlines several years ago, I was sure that they'll leave the monetary union (ditch the Euro), readopt their own currency, say to lenders that we'll either default on our bonds, or we will re-denominate debt to pay it back in our own currency, which ofcourse would be devaluated aggressively over the term

I thought the same too at the time. But then started reading up and realised it was all BS. There was zero chance they could leave. Germany knew this and just let the Greek rant a bit before dropping reality on them.

Somehow, some way, Germany convinced other states that they should take their tax payer's money and invest it in new Greek bonds. Finance ministers across the EU sold the loan to a borrower on its last breath as an "excellent" and "profitable" investment opportunity. LOL!

Yes they setup the EFSF with all euro member states underwriting the bonds it issued to help Greece. I bought some EFSF bonds as default risk was next to zero it would require entire eurozone to default before I would not get paid....lol. That agency later became ESM. Oh and yes Greek got milked and made Germany lots of money...lol.

Those scams are bound to get more ridiculous over time. Is it realistic to roll over current loans with new ones indefinitely?

Yes EU financial engineering has no limits. They just will roll over any bonds they issue as ECB interest rates are negative and will be for some time due to Brexit, covid and weak EU growth prospects. At some point there will be so much debt that the entire system will fail probably in 2047-2048.