Trader deciding between Spain and Portugal

[gowiththeflow48]

My 2 cents view:

In favor of Portugal:
- Portugal is roughly 40% cheaper to live in than Spain
- Madrid - Lisbon is 4 hours drive w/o bordes
- NHR program gives you:
- - has 20% income tax for 10 years and 0% weath, real star, etc
- - If trading crypto and "holding" them for a year Portugal has 0% tax rate.
- - NHR is available to all citizens of a EU member country (no need of golden visa, which is needed for non-EU citizens) Search all details online.


In favor of Spain:
- One of the biggest tourist destination in the world (3rd or 2nd most visited country for tourist )
- Beckham Law gives:
- - flat reduced income tax rate of 24% up to €600,000 for 5-6 years.
- - Wealth tax lowered to 0.2% from 2.5%.
- - Not for people currently living in Spain

I would rather go to Portugal, not only because taxes are lower but because laws change less often and Portuguese IRS is not as aggressive as Spanish IRS is (Hacienda is the worst IRS in the world along with US IRS).

But individual situation and preferences must be evaluates with a professional advisor to see what suits you better

But apparently to use the Beckam law in Spain you can't be self employed.

 

[chingxang]

Hello, There is an agressive update from "Hacienda" in Spain about cryptocurrencies:

https://www-eleconomista-es.translate.goog/legal/noticias/12200363/03/23/Hacienda-exigira-a-las-firmas-declarar-el-saldo-en-criptomonedas-de-sus-clientes.html?_x_tr_sl=en&_x_tr_tl=ca&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true

"Hacienda" will require crypto firms (eg:exchanges) to report the crypto balance of their clients. It will enter into force in 2024 for operations made in 2023.

 

[MrTambourineBTC]

Hello, There is an agressive update from "Hacienda" in Spain about cryptocurrencies:

https://www-eleconomista-es.translate.goog/legal/noticias/12200363/03/23/Hacienda-exigira-a-las-firmas-declarar-el-saldo-en-criptomonedas-de-sus-clientes.html?_x_tr_sl=en&_x_tr_tl=ca&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true

"Hacienda" will require crypto firms (eg:exchanges) to report the crypto balance of their clients. It will enter into force in 2024 for operations made in 2023.

Most likely only applies for exchanges with license in Spain (binance, bybit and a few more).

we have the cutest hacienda in the world, even faster than the EU in trying to tax everything about crypto as it says in the article. EU in 2026 and we already have it here in 2023 lol

Thanks for the info.

BTW finally decided to stay for one more year in Spain, still have not decided if I'm gonna declare or not in 2023 but for sure will stay here for another year.
If 2023 trading is good I will consider moving in 2024! So far these 2 months alread up 14k in derivatives (a lot more in spot), and 2022 made 25k in derivatives in 4 months as a sort of beginner so so far looks really promising, but I would need to make at very least 100k for a foreign corporate from Portugal with all the expenses from renting a house to the corporate expenses in order to make sense for leaving. I think I'll be able to make 50kish in 2023 and I'm very positive this 6 fig will be possible in 2024.

Thank you all for the help.

 

[chingxang]

I'm also based in Spain, and using ByBit last months. I didn't know that ByBit had license in Spain.

 

[MrTambourineBTC]

Hey there! Almost one year has passed.

This year I made about 70-80k€ not bad considering I was pretty much on holidays for 5 months since may to september lol

In the end decided to remain "under the radar" for this 2023, so my situation has remained the same as it was in february (and of course I'm not going to be filling taxes for this calendar year). But 2024 is the year of going into the radar. I'm absolutely sick of non-KYC shady exchanges, and DEX with horrible fees.

Very likely to remain in Spain and pay 21-23% on what I make. The only major problem will be the lack of futures products (which is my bread and butter) given my small initial capital of only 25k€ of taxed money in the bank (the rest of my money will continue in crypto "on the side"), but I'm sure I will find some ways to leverage a little bit my account. Otherwise, the growth will be slower but I don't see it as a big problem. Things will just take a little longer.

So unless in this month or so before 2024 begins I come up with a different idea, from 1st January very likely to remain in Spain and in 2025 declare 21-23% taxes of whatever I make.

I didn't find any foreign setup that I particularly liked, given Portuguese NHR + crypto/malta company was the most comfortable for my situation (Portugal was my foreign #1 option given proximity and weather), but even that was a little sketchy and somewhat expensive (I should make 100k€+ for it to start to make sense economically).

Will keep some updates! Feel free to give some advice.

TLDR: crypto trader almost 40 yo always under the radar, never paid taxes, own a house in Spain, 25k€ as total capital in taxed, legal money so to speak, looking for a country to pay taxes from 2024 onwards in a place to pay as little crypto taxes as possible while remaining very close to spain (portugal pretty much and perhaps open to something in europe but not likely). Very likely to end up living and paying in Spain anyways.