UAE alternatives for trader/investor.

[JackAlabama]

On a side note, UAE property prices never recovered since the 2008 crisis. Somebody mentioned here the top was 2014, but it's not.

In fact I bought my condo in 2007 (still under construction) and sold it in 2014 (luckily) at a discount of 15% of what I bought it for. The only thing that saved my purchase is the currency exchange difference. So I managed to recover my money.

It is clearly post bubble situation there.

Where in Philippines, BCG? I had some pretty bad material in constructions in Cebu while it was still new and parts were in the finishing process with prices studios of asking price of 80k $ for 20sqm.

 

[CaptK]

I'm most likely going for the 3 year Property Visa. I can't be bothered to set up some pretend company that will have no revenue. I'm thinking that even if the property prices continue to fall another 20% or so, that's fine and this setup will still be worth it for me.

Has anyone actually been though this process or seen any OFFICIAL information on this visa?

I can find official info on the 5 year (5M) investment visa (on both DLD and the DED website), but nothing on the 3 year.

Dubai Land Department - Request for a residency visa for real estate owners

Dubai Land Department seeks to achieve the objectives of Dubai Government's strategy in the real estate sector, and improve land registration procedures.

dubailand.gov.ae

On this visa I'll not be allowed to work inside the UAE, so I'll have to check if there are any restrictions on trading stocks and investment income. Anyone know?

Were you are guaranteed rent is not the most desirable area but there is certainty that if one tenant goes there are 4 more ready to move in.

You would be far better off going the company route. By the time you have added service charge taxes and fees it's would be cheaper to run a company for 5 years. Things could change and if you want to get rid of the property you could be stuck with it if you don't buy in the right area or the building has problems.

 

[bibing]

It is clearly post bubble situation there.

Where in Philippines, BCG? I had some pretty bad material in constructions in Cebu while it was still new and parts were in the finishing process with prices studios of asking price of 80k $ for 20sqm.

Makati and BGC.

New condos are expensive as f***k in PH (considering it's PH). And I feel there's a bubble there as well.

 

[El Raton]

Were you are guaranteed rent is not the most desirable area but there is certainty that if one tenant goes there are 4 more ready to move in.

You would be far better off going the company route. By the time you have added service charge taxes and fees it's would be cheaper to run a company for 5 years. Things could change and if you want to get rid of the property you could be stuck with it if you don't buy in the right area or the building has problems.

I see the property route more as risk management. Not an investment, but a cost to solve a problem.

What I cannot do is to jeopardize the access to my accounts, which are all hinging on me keeping my residence and clearing any KYC renewal.

Agreed, the running costs (AC, service fees etc) and possibly having to sell at a loss all adds up, BUT...everything is legit. I can prove I live there.

I like Dubai in the winter, so I'll probably spend part of the year in the apartment anyway. If I really need to recover some of the running costs, I could always rent it out instead. Even with the falling rents, it looks like I could get at least 5% yield. I've been looking at Select Group (Marina Gate, Studio One) and LIV residence, all in the Marina.


With that said, I'm still weighing my options and might still go down another path if it overall looks better.

So thanks for all the inputs!

 

[JackAlabama]

I see the property route more as risk management. Not an investment, but a cost to solve a problem.

What I cannot do is to jeopardize the access to my accounts, which are all hinging on me keeping my residence and clearing any KYC renewal.

Agreed, the running costs (AC, service fees etc) and possibly having to sell at a loss all adds up, BUT...everything is legit. I can prove I live there.

I like Dubai in the winter, so I'll probably spend part of the year in the apartment anyway. If I really need to recover some of the running costs, I could always rent it out instead. Even with the falling rents, it looks like I could get at least 5% yield. I've been looking at Select Group (Marina Gate, Studio One) and LIV residence, all in the Marina.


With that said, I'm still weighing my options and might still go down another path if it overall looks better.

So thanks for all the inputs!

If you can live in Dubai almost full time?
Then you solve the kyc issue, have your place and at least you save the rent and do not have to deal with landlord (altough they are super nice if you can pay and there are too much supply, but still).

 

[CaptK]

I see the property route more as risk management. Not an investment, but a cost to solve a problem.

What I cannot do is to jeopardize the access to my accounts, which are all hinging on me keeping my residence and clearing any KYC renewal.

Agreed, the running costs (AC, service fees etc) and possibly having to sell at a loss all adds up, BUT...everything is legit. I can prove I live there.

I like Dubai in the winter, so I'll probably spend part of the year in the apartment anyway. If I really need to recover some of the running costs, I could always rent it out instead. Even with the falling rents, it looks like I could get at least 5% yield. I've been looking at Select Group (Marina Gate, Studio One) and LIV residence, all in the Marina.


With that said, I'm still weighing my options and might still go down another path if it overall looks better.

So thanks for all the inputs!

I get you, KYC is not a problem just pay renewal fee. Those buildings are good also look at Princess Tower it's a good block also.

 

[troubled soul]

I do agree Property Visa route is very complex . Company registration is simple and hassle free . For guide you can see below video.

youtube.com/watch?v=piLv3TK5iYc


Also to mention property visa takes time to process and granted.

 

[hwmax]

Hi guys,

Any input on my situation is much appreciated!


I'm currently employed in Dubai, but my employment is ending shortly.
EU citizen, but have not lived there for 15+ years and have no obligations there nor ties to any EU country.
Spending less time in Dubai lately and currently my bank "residence address" is at a friends house.
I have 3 bank accounts (1 retail banking and 2 online brokers), that are all tied to my UAE residence.

At the moment my plan would be to live off of my trading and savings, but I would consider to start working again if a suitable opportunity came up.

I'm very happy with my bank situation, so keeping my UAE residence and current setup would be my preferred option. However, if there is any solid alternative arrangement, I'd definitely consider it.


Some options I have considered.

UAE "Investor visa" through real estate.
+ Legit visa and proof of address
- Major hassle to have a property where I don't intend to live
- Downside risk in property prices
- If I'd start working again, I have to cancel the investor visa (and not sure if I could revive it later again?)

UAE Freezone company with visa
+ Easy and cheap setup
- Potential issue with current banks

UAE Freelance visa
+ Even easier/cheaper
- I don't have any actual activity that technically qualifies for freelancing
- Potential bank issues


Other options I have considered; Andorra, Malta, Swedish ISK.

I find myself in a very similar situation currently although I am currently working/resident in Abu Dhabi but want to remain resident in the UAE without a 'normal' job/residency. I'd be very interested to hear what option you are going with.

 

[HKS]

There are many options for UAE set up of companies now. The most suited if you need local bank accounts are with strong Freezone credentials. These are mainly located in Dubai and now being supported well in Abu Dhabi.
RAK FZE cannot even assure you of a bank account even with RAK Bank..
Other Emirates hardly stand a chance .
DON'T be taken in by selective marketing hype and promotions that everybody uses to get clients. If business consulting companies worked ethically and or worked for your interests then they would have to divulge the truth.
Making the sweet they promote leave you with a long lasting sour or bitter after taste..
Skeptical Yes. I have 13 years of experience and many companies in UAE. FZE, Onshore and offshore, with a few grey hairs to add.

There are good freelance options with visa for those who wish to live and be legal without huge costs and not be tied to a bad job.
The new option of No local partner for standard onshore company looks tempting.. But wait until the real law comes out and all the loopholes and hidden rules are all out in the open. Be the first into such a deal and you can be the experiment we all watch in slow motion...

UAE laws and rules market one aspect and as others have mentioned here the implementation of the rules are different in actual life, than what is initially portrayed. Many Many small fees and costs for this and that document, it is incredible.. They have to earn money to pay for exorbitant salaries for Local staff. Just go look at any gov't / freezone office carpark and work out how majority of civil servants can afford to have luxury cars.. (work commuting cars)? [ Go to their homes and see the other cars they don't take to work or their wives drive etc etc]
Overseas investors pay for it with not just the published fees, but hidden costs, no refunds on refundable deposits, large deposits for immigration or any other new fangled law that gets rein-acted. Large deposits for Electricity etc etc..
The sunshine always makes is seem less harsh than in Europe as a comparison.. But when you add up those figures and change them to Euro or USD you will get a shock at the cost..

Great if you love the place and see yourself living there for a few years at least.. But it will not be cheap.. Zero tax is the official line, But zero Fees are the norm and add up to a good percentage in real terms. So paying small tax in Cyprus or any similar location in Med is more attractive as you know where you are and not law will come in and change it overnight..


Those who are seeking residency via property purchase have so many restrictions and limitations that it is hardly worth the paper. If anyone has a good memory can surely vouch for the initial property based visa issue which the government developers promoted but was contradicted in law.. (sorry I won't quote names) but your own research can bring it up.

As always Buyer Beware when it comes to property.. It all looks good in the sun until you live in the place and see it falling apart.. Quality is poor, the glossy finish is nice. But let reality set in.. Especially when you are also paying high maintenance fees. Many friends I have living in Arabian Ranches pay over 30,000 UAE Dirhams for these Annual fees. Just over $8,000 USD. This is an average size villa, no swimming pool.
They way each developer makes these calculations is like Harry Potter with his wand..

In UAE you get to find out the reality and small print afterwards if it gets translated well.
Underlying to all the above and much more which is written in English, is the real fact that all is based on legal elements which are written in Arabic law.. So another layer which is extremely hard to navigate or understand.
Lawyers in UAE charge higher per hour than even in the US for identical work...


I like the country, but sadly you dont get to feel the reality of it until after you move in and are committed to making payments. Company set up or buying property.

As yourselves this:
Why do so many wealthy Emirati's take there money overseas when its all good and great in UAE?
Many answers to this and all correct in their own right.

Grass is not green over the fence..
OK if you are making informed decisions and accept these as part of your cost to be anywhere.
What I am highlighting is that Not everything is clear and upfront to make good evaluation.
You get to find out after you commit..

Many people from all over the world live there and will continue to do so. My view will not hinder or stop them.
Just food for thought which is not fully considered by many looking at UAE as a solution.

Good Day.

 

[El Raton]

Hey Hanif,

I really appreciate your take on all this!

Everyone's situation is different. We all have varying levels of risk we are prepared to take and varying amounts of $ we are dealing with.

What does apply to everyone is the need to do your proper DD and realize that if it sounds too good to be true...

Those who are seeking residency via property purchase have so many restrictions and limitations that it is hardly worth the paper. If anyone has a good memory can surely vouch for the initial property based visa issue which the government developers promoted but was contradicted in law.. (sorry I won't quote names) but your own research can bring it up.

The actual requirements seem quite straightfwd (Freehold, no mortgage, no off-plan, deed amount over the limit). But as with anything in the Middle East, apparently the process is not quick and can take up to a month.

Please do share what you know about the process that would make it "hardly worth the paper".

 

[HKS]

Hey Hanif,

I really appreciate your take on all this!

Everyone's situation is different. We all have varying levels of risk we are prepared to take and varying amounts of $ we are dealing with.

What does apply to everyone is the need to do your proper DD and realize that if it sounds too good to be true...



The actual requirements seem quite straightfwd (Freehold, no mortgage, no off-plan, deed amount over the limit). But as with anything in the Middle East, apparently the process is not quick and can take up to a month.

Please do share what you know about the process that would make it "hardly worth the paper".

Your next step forward is to spend some personal time in UAE and speak to people on the ground living in the developments and areas you are planning to purchase in.
I also suggest informal chats with any maintenance people you find so you get to know as much as possible.
The information shared in this forum and this stream has probably done all it can for you, I go so far as prepared you well for actually being on the ground and finding out for yourself more details specific to your needs.

It would be great to receive your feedback on the next steps you have taken and why decisions were made.
It will certainly help other on their journey if they are considering options in UAE.

Nothing in the Middle east is as what it first appears to be..
Best wishes and look forward to your story as you proceed.

H

 

[El Raton]

Your next step forward is to spend some personal time in UAE and speak to people on the ground living in the developments and areas you are planning to purchase in.
I also suggest informal chats with any maintenance people you find so you get to know as much as possible.
The information shared in this forum and this stream has probably done all it can for you, I go so far as prepared you well for actually being on the ground and finding out for yourself more details specific to your needs.

It would be great to receive your feedback on the next steps you have taken and why decisions were made.
It will certainly help other on their journey if they are considering options in UAE.

Nothing in the Middle east is as what it first appears to be..
Best wishes and look forward to your story as you proceed.

H

I'm away from Dubai at the moment, so just trying to get a head start on gathering info before I get back.

I've spent many years in various countries in the ME and have always liked the region and the people. But I agree, Dubai is definitely a city of many broken dreams!

I find myself in a very similar situation currently although I am currently working/resident in Abu Dhabi but want to remain resident in the UAE without a 'normal' job/residency. I'd be very interested to hear what option you are going with.

Leaning towards property route, but not sure how that works in AD?

Have you looked at other options?