UK non-dom: best offshore brokers and banks account

[zedforzane]

I am an uk non-dom resident (European citizen)
I was wondering what are the best offshore personal bank account and what are the best broker/investment account (for stock & ETF)?
with the possibility of being opened remotely with less than 100k.
what to avoid and tips for UK non-dom?

thanks!

 

[Martin Everson]

As a UK non-dom you can open an account at Barclays international in Jersey online. 25k minimum. For brokers I would be very careful as many EU brokers will actually open a brokerage account with their UK entity (if they have one) once they realize you are resident in UK. This defeats your whole non-dom status.

Personally I would go with Flatex.de. Cheapest around and you get access to dark pools and dedicated IBAN's in EUR/GBP/USD.

 

[zedforzane]

Thanks a lot!

Are there any alternatives for bank accounts in Europe?
(obviously outside the UK)

 

[Martin Everson]

Are there any alternatives for bank accounts in Europe?
(obviously outside the UK)

Pretty much any bank in Europe. I can't list them all. But please read what I say below before you cock your status up.

I don't know how much you know about non-dom status but you need to be careful what you invest in also. If you invest in any UK situs funds, stocks etc by accident it will be considered a remittance and taxed as such. You are always best to work with banks in Switzerland, Channel Islands or Luxembourg that are familiar with the UK non-dom status. Your accounts need to be setup correctly so your offshore income is separated from your offshore capital in seperate accounts for investment and settlement. If you mix the two in your offshore investments then you end up with dirty capital. The net effect is that later remitting it to UK will not give you a tax advantage.

See my advice below

Newbie CRS questions > UK

Hi folks, have been bothered by recent CRS episode and would like to seek some clarity. I'm UK non-domiciled and had maintained personal bank accounts in my home country after the relocation. My UK address triggered bank scrutiny and was asked for self certification. As I never had to pay tax in...

www.offshorecorptalk.com

P.S It's a complex area and you need to work with both a UK accountant and broker/banks that understand your status like UBS, CS in Switzerland or Barclays etc in Channel Islands.

 

[zedforzane]

All Crystal Clear,
Thanks again for the advice.

Luckily now I am just studying the RDN.
up to now, I have paid all on the arising basis using the classic low salary + dividend strategies (with UK LTD) because I had no need and budget to set up other structures.

But during this tax year 2020-2021, I am setting up a better structure, and in the next Self Assessment, I would notify the HMRC the RDN status.

-------

In Flatex.de
What does it mean:
"
Einbehalt von Kirchensteuer
Ich wünsche, dass das 'Kirchensteuerabzugsmerkmal' (KiStAM) im Rahmen der Kontoeröffnung beim Bundeszentralamt für Steuern abgerufen wird (Anlassabfrage).
"
should be accepted?

I don't understand German and translation software do not help

Thanks again

 

[Martin Everson]

No you don't want to pay Church taxes...lol. Don't accept.

btw the software is completely in German so if you don't speak German or have a basic understanding it aint for you .

Perhaps go for something easier such as internaxx.com which is swissquote. You get also dedicated IBAN's for each currency but not the best pricing. Bu they are expat focused .

 

[isyet]

All Crystal Clear,
Thanks again for the advice.

Luckily now I am just studying the RDN.
up to now, I have paid all on the arising basis using the classic low salary + dividend strategies (with UK LTD) because I had no need and budget to set up other structures.

But during this tax year 2020-2021, I am setting up a better structure, and in the next Self Assessment, I would notify the HMRC the RDN status.

-------

In Flatex.de
What does it mean:
"
Einbehalt von Kirchensteuer
Ich wünsche, dass das 'Kirchensteuerabzugsmerkmal' (KiStAM) im Rahmen der Kontoeröffnung beim Bundeszentralamt für Steuern abgerufen wird (Anlassabfrage).
"
should be accepted?

I don't understand German and translation software do not help

Thanks again

I guess this warning is not about you. There is mandatory church tax for Christians in Germany. If you do not live in Germany, ignore this warning.

 

[Martin Everson]

I guess this warning is not about you. There is mandatory church tax for Christians in Germany. If you do not live in Germany, ignore this warning.

Same BS in Switzerland so Pastor can earn 6 figure salary for holding sermons in an empty church.

 

[jackfrost]

@Martin Everson

do you have a few more recommendations for brokers for EU passport holders that you would trust with <deposit insurance amounts to park some liquidity in a rather safe manner?

Opened accounts with ibkr uk, swissquote, dukas, lmax, flatex (in process). Would like to open 5-10 more and also if possible in multiple EU jurisdictions also in relationship to where assets / compenssation schemes are being held.

Alternatively banks that allow non residents without the ridicoulous non-resident fees which do make a difference if you only park < insured amount there.

 

[Martin Everson]

Opened accounts with ibkr uk, swissquote, dukas, lmax, flatex (in process). Would like to open 5-10 more and also if possible in multiple EU jurisdictions also in relationship to where assets / compenssation schemes are being held.

Best to just use a company like raisin.com to distribute 100k cash in your name to multiple banks with deposit insurance in EU.

 

[jackfrost]

Thanks. Have you dealt with them in terms of changing the reference account and how much of a hazzle that is?

 

[Martin Everson]

Thanks. Have you dealt with them in terms of changing the reference account and how much of a hazzle that is?

No but if it is anything like other firms in Germany like Flatex then you will need to send in a signed form requesting a change by post. Reference account issues in general are a pain.

 

[Flatworld]

maybe this one?

Our trading pricing: transparent and competitive fees | Fineco

Discover Fineco fees and pricing policy: no hidden charges, no account monthly fee, no minimum deposit. Enjoy premium trading, without premium price.

finecobank.co.uk

I haven't used it as I'm not at UK...

 

[jackfrost]

@Martin Everson how much would you be concerned about them being the gatekeeper to multiple accounts? While you possibly (if they are not involved in fraud at which point i guess it would be just german one?) get the protection of multiple jurisdictions + deposit garantees ultimatively you always have to go through them so if they pull a EMI KYC/AML on you aka "Sorry account closed or we need documents" and dont reply for weeks as we have heard multiple times it kind of shuts down access to all accounts?

 

[Martin Everson]

@Martin Everson how much would you be concerned about them being the gatekeeper to multiple accounts? While you possibly (if they are not involved in fraud at which point i guess it would be just german one?) get the protection of multiple jurisdictions + deposit garantees ultimatively you always have to go through them so if they pull a EMI KYC/AML on you aka "Sorry account closed or we need documents" and dont reply for weeks as we have heard multiple times it kind of shuts down access to all accounts?

You raise a good point. It can be a single point of failure doing it in such a way as opposed to going to the individual banks yourself. Not to mention one needs to read carefully the terms and conditions.

The whole KYC/AML issue sounds highly likely to get worse and any missing piece of information WILL result in your account being frozen. Yes I can't disagree with the risk.

 

[zedforzane]

For brokers I would be very careful as many EU brokers will actually open a brokerage account with their UK entity (if they have one) once they realize you are resident in UK. This defeats your whole non-dom status.

If I would open an account with Degiro.ch how could I know that I am not opening an account with their UK entity?
Is there any way?
Does it matter if all transactions are made in CHF through their Swiss office?

because I'm opening that account and I seem to be operating in their Swiss office, is there any way of being certain?

 

[Martin Everson]

If I would open an account with Degiro.ch how could I know that I am not opening an account with their UK entity?

Degiro is a garbage broker. I had an account with Degiro.ie in Ireland. Garbage company with rude ignorant support staff. You wire money to their account at Deutsche Bank and they work in Euro's only with limited products available. They are a useless company when it comes to discussing issues on withholding tax on dividends etc.

If your in UK then you may get automatically redirected internally to degiro uk. See what happens when you click on "Open an account now" button on degiro.ch site. It then says something about adding you to waiting list and takes you to degiro.nl side.

Does it matter if all transactions are made in CHF through their Swiss office?

Depends if thats the currency your are interested in.

 

[Flatworld]

If I would open an account with Degiro.ch how could I know that I am not opening an account with their UK entity?
Is there any way?
Does it matter if all transactions are made in CHF through their Swiss office?

because I'm opening that account and I seem to be operating in their Swiss office, is there any way of being certain?

I don't think they have swiss license or office...

 

[mandarin88]

As a UK non-dom you can open an account at Barclays international in Jersey online. 25k minimum. For brokers I would be very careful as many EU brokers will actually open a brokerage account with their UK entity (if they have one) once they realize you are resident in UK. This defeats your whole non-dom status.

Personally I would go with Flatex.de. Cheapest around and you get access to dark pools and dedicated IBAN's in EUR/GBP/USD.

Hi Martin, I have been reading the non Dom UK guide books, and came across this explicit exception for UK brokers dealing with non-uk funds and investments:

RDRM34040 - Remittance Basis: Exemptions: Relevant services provided in the UK - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK

www.gov.uk

Foreign income or gains (or property derived from them) used to pay for a service provided in the UK for the benefit of a relevant person is not treated as a remittance if:

• the service provided in the UK relates wholly or mainly to property situated outside the UK (Condition A), and
• the whole of the payment for that service is made to a bank account or bank accounts held outside the UK by or on behalf of the provider of the service. (Condition B).

Example 1

Chandra, a remittance basis user, engages an investment manager based in the UK to manage her portfolio of investments in foreign stocks and shares of overseas concerns. Payment for this service is made from Chandra’s Guernsey bank account (containing her foreign income) to the investment manager’s Jersey bank account.

The service - the management of the portfolio - is provided in the UK to Chandra. However the service relates wholly to property outside the UK and payment has been made to a bank account held outside the UK. Both Condition A and Condition B RDRM33100 of the service exemption are met and therefore the payment for the services will not be treated as a remittance to the UK.

Would this not mean that using IB (Interactive Brokers) UK to use say US bank account funds to buy Ireland domiciled ETFs would not be counted as remittance? I.e. it's ok to use IB UK as long as your funds and investments are non-uk?

 

[Martin Everson]

Would this not mean that using IB (Interactive Brokers) UK to use say US bank account funds to buy Ireland domiciled ETFs would not be counted as remittance? I.e. it's ok to use IB UK as long as your funds and investments are non-uk?

NO!!!

With IBUK where is the account located that you are you paying the money into? Does the funding of IBUK account require you to send money into a UK account? If so you have done a remittance.

The example you quoted is clear as no offshore funds at any point were sent to UK. This is how it works in private banking in UK for non-doms. A non-dom can have a local banker who manages their assets held offshore and payment for that service takes place offshore and assets being managed offshore have no UK situs. The local banker in that example is compensated offshore thus no remittance has taken place by the client either in paying for assets or the service.