US LLC (perpetual traveler) - bank asks for tx residency

[bigbite100]

Hello,

if you are a perpetual traveler (you and your company are not tx residents in any country) and open a bank account for the LLC, what should you enter as residency?

a) US and add the EIN number? that will imply facta reporting -> what happens then?
b) any other country and the personal tx ID?
c) anything else?

Thank you.

 

[daniels27]

B) Australian TFN fire example.

In case of a) the bank will hate you, but nothing happens with IRS.

 

[JackAlabama]

Hello,

if you are a perpetual traveler (you and your company are not tx residents in any country) and open a bank account for the LLC, what should you enter as residency?

a) US and add the EIN number? that will imply facta reporting -> what happens then?

thats not gonna work, ein is the company id and not the id of a person. youd either need itin or ssn. But its not a good way of handling this.

 

[bigbite100]

thats not gonna work, ein is the company id and not the id of a person. youd either need itin or ssn. But its not a good way of handling this.

what would you then do? if the person and the company is nowhere tx resident, what should they tell the bank?

 

[Sols]

Establish residence somewhere. Ideally a place where you can legally live (your place of citizenship or get a residence permit as well) and even better if you also file taxes there, so you can show tax returns if someone asks.

PT is a pipedream. The way it was glamorized in the (mostly fictional) writings from the 90s and early 2000s barely worked then and definitely doesn't work anymore. The rules of the fiat systems have changed.

 

[JackAlabama]

what would you then do? if the person and the company is nowhere tx resident, what should they tell the bank?

all i gonna say is you were close already

 

[Xshore]

Is the bank account in the US? If the banks ask for your residence then just put your previous or nationality country there. for the w9-ben you can avoid filling out the form where you claim treaty benefits.
When I opened a US account for a LLC they didn't ask for my personal address, maybe they used the company address for my address also, not sure, they weren't interested in my personal address.

 

[bigbite100]

@Sols @Xshore it would be an Non US-EMI . with a UAE or CY residence, would you then enter the UAE or CY TIN for example? if they report to this countries that might bring some hassle..?

@JackAlabama i am sorry but i am not sure what you mean

 

[Sols]

@Sols @Xshore it would be an Non US-EMI . with a UAE or CY residence, would you then enter the UAE or CY TIN for example? if they report to this countries that might bring some hassle..?

I'd enter whichever one is truthful and can be substantiated if further requests for information come in. No point providing a CY TIN if you can't show tax returns filed in Cyprus, proof of address in Cyprus, residence permit, and such.

 

[bigbite100]

but the returns will be personal returns, not the companies, right?

I'd enter whichever one is truthful and can be substantiated if further requests for information come in. No point providing a CY TIN if you can't show tax returns filed in Cyprus, proof of address in Cyprus, residence permit, and such.

 

[JustAnotherNomad]

The UAE doesn't have TINs. You can enter your Emirates ID number, but it's not officially considered a TIN.

There are a bunch of EU countries where you can be resident without becoming tax resident. But some risk always remains if you don't have a proper home elsewhere.
Paraguay is a popuplar option, as well. So is the UAE.

 

[cusano]

I'd enter whichever one is truthful and can be substantiated if further requests for information come in. No point providing a CY TIN if you can't show tax returns filed in Cyprus, proof of address in Cyprus, residence permit, and such.

At what point do you need a tax return for the bank? What triggers such a request? TIN and a utility bill seem to be easily achievable as a non resident.

There are a bunch of EU countries where you can be resident without becoming tax resident. But some risk always remains if you don't have a proper home elsewhere.
Paraguay is a popuplar option, as well. So is the UAE.

Is Paraguay still good enough for banks? From my point of view it just got too popular.

 

[Sols]

but the returns will be personal returns, not the companies, right?

At what point do you need a tax return for the bank? What triggers such a request? TIN and a utility bill seem to be easily achievable as a non resident.

Increasingly, when banks and other financial institutions perform KYC on someone, they look into the Source of Funds and Source of Wealth even on the owners/founders of the company. In doing so, requesting a copy of a tax return is quite common request.

 

[jafo]

Is Paraguay still good enough for banks? From my point of view it just got too popular.

What do you mean it just got too popular?

Hello,

if you are a perpetual traveler (you and your company are not tx residents in any country) and open a bank account for the LLC, what should you enter as residency?

a) US and add the EIN number? that will imply facta reporting -> what happens then?
b) any other country and the personal tx ID?
c) anything else?

Thank you.

(1) I resisted answering this, but there is ONLY one correct way to answer this, and it is this way:

You should be concerned ONLY with the first story!

(2) If you didn't understand #1 completely, then the advice from @Sols is the ONLY one you should follow! You'll enjoy peace and prosperity!

 

[cusano]

What do you mean it just got too popular?

Paraguay is one of the cheapest and easiest residence solutions if not even the cheapest. Almost no restrictions to get it. This in combination with a lot of ads for obtaining residence in Paraguay made me think it's too popular. No clue how EU and US banks see this.

 

[jafo]

Paraguay is one of the cheapest and easiest residence solutions if not even the cheapest. Almost no restrictions to get it. This in combination with a lot of ads for obtaining residence in Paraguay made me think it's too popular.

Ahhhh.....indeed. There is lots of marketing, but very few actual residents. The EU & US civil community in PY is very small. How small? There are more US "agents" at the US Embassy in Asunción than the combined US & EU "expats/residents" in PY.

A few years back, there were quite a few "expats" in PY (although NOT from the EU & US), but they got harassed so much by the Asunción US Embassy and its assigns that most moved to São Paulo or returned back home.

What you have a lot more now (as compared to before) is Taiwanese immigrants. This is a very CLOSED circle/community, though! It's impossible to penetrate...even for the US Intel or their US-born Taiwanese who have tried to infiltrate the groups. It's a 100% DO-NOT-ENTER deal!
Source: Taiwan and Paraguay escalate trade relations during 4th ECA Joint Committee Meeting

No clue how EU and US banks see this.

Unofficially blacklisted. Even if the corresponding banks don't harass you right away, the local banks will absolutely make your life a living H3LL with bureaucracy and paperwork and then rob you of a considerable percentage of your incoming transfers.

If you don't know how to stay OFF the grid and be resourceful, Paraguay is definitely NOT for you!

Oh, and if you don't speak Spanish fluently, you will be charged a Gringo Tax...it's usually 500% to 1000%. Nothing the locals will feel "bad about or lose any sleep over."

 

[cusano]

A few years back, there were quite a few "expats" in PY (although NOT from the EU & US), but they got harassed so much by the Asunción US Embassy and its assigns that most moved to São Paulo or returned back home.

You are talking about the Lebanese? I didn't know anything changed about this but i am not updated.

Unofficially blacklisted. Even if the corresponding banks don't harass you right away, the local banks will absolutely make your life a living H3LL with bureaucracy and paperwork and then rob you of a considerable percentage of your incoming transfers.

Why should anyone bank locally in Paraguay?
The topic is about a solution for people to have enough documents for the compliance department in the US.
Is the residence unofficially blacklisted too or only the local banks?
I already heard that banks in PY are insane about requesting papers and are slow.

If you don't know how to stay OFF the grid and be resourceful, Paraguay is definitely NOT for you!

Oh, and if you don't speak Spanish fluently, you will be charged a Gringo Tax...it's usually 500% to 1000%. Nothing the locals will feel "bad about or lose any sleep over."

Off the grid of who? The state itself in Paraguay is really weak. I can imagine only you are talking about criminals.

 

[jafo]

You are talking about the Lebanese? I didn't know anything changed about this but i am not updated.

...and their "derivatives."

Why should anyone bank locally in Paraguay?

For example...
How do you pay ANDE?
I guess you can pay CASH in person, but what if the "cashier" pockets the money?
What happens when you travel? How do you pay when you can't go personally?

Is the residence unofficially blacklisted too or only the local banks?

Depends! If you are an American or European, a compliance officer in Miami, NYC, or LA would have a real issue with you having residency in PY. I'm NOT defending them, but that is how they have been programmed to think.
If you are from PY, live there, have a local business, and have +$25K in Schwab, then "no." Just mentioning you need to keep Schwab because "Latin America" is corrupt will confirm the "confirmation bias" of the compliance officer.

Off the grid of who? The state itself in Paraguay is really weak.

Weak? Who told you this?
When I say off the grid, I mean without calling attention to yourself. If you start a local business, let it be a "white-listed" business that does NOT compete with the businesses of other politically connected and privileged locals. You'll know who if you are familiar with Paraguay.

For example, Paraguay will extradite ANY foreigner requested by ANY Western country or its vassal states. Keep this in mind. Any! They will NOT even look at the charges. Of course, if you do have a LOT of money, many well-connected lawyers from the "group" will defend you until you run out of money, and you WILL run out of money. Then they'll extradite you!

Other than this, it's a wonderful country, and you can live like a King! If you don't FA, you won't FO. (FAFO)

 

[cusano]

For example...
How do you pay ANDE?
I guess you can pay CASH in person, but what if the "cashier" pockets the money?
What happens when you travel? How do you pay when you can't go personally?

If you don't look and behave like an idiot this isn't going to happen. I don't know if you can pay cash in person for the electricity bill but i know at least one type of business that can do bank transfers for you. All legal and it's not a bank.

If you can't go personally you need a person of trust and let's be honest even if someone scams you because of such a low amount then you learn from it and select the person of trust the next time better.

Depends! If you are an American or European, a compliance officer in Miami, NYC, or LA would have a real issue with you having residency in PY. I'm NOT defending them, but that is how they have been programmed to think.
If you are from PY, live there, have a local business, and have +$25K in Schwab, then "no." Just mentioning you need to keep Schwab because "Latin America" is corrupt will confirm the "confirmation bias" of the compliance officer.

Then the whole PY residence just for producing papers doesn't make sense. Business and Personal account are at another place and only need a good looking residence if the bank asks for it. The thread starter is an perfect example.

 

[jafo]

If you don't look and behave like an idiot this isn't going to happen. I don't know if you can pay cash in person for the electricity bill but i know at least one type of business that can do bank transfers for you. All legal and it's not a bank.

If you can't go personally you need a person of trust and let's be honest even if someone scams you because of such a low amount then you learn from it and select the person of trust the next time better.


Then the whole PY residence just for producing papers doesn't make sense. Business and Personal account are at another place and only need a good looking residence if the bank asks for it. The thread starter is an perfect example.

I can only say with utmost conviction that

1. "a potential resident should absorb their theory about Paraguay
2. travel to Paraguay,
3. rent an apartment,
4. go through the bureaucracy,
5. and experience Paraguay in practice."

Then, they will be able to assess whether Paraguay is the right residency for them.