Our valued sponsor

Using 0% business with substance for full flexibility (CFC Rules) - professional setup

realdealbusiness

New member
Apr 23, 2020
23
13
3
37
Register now
You must login or register to view hidden content on this page.
What I want to achieve?
I want to be able to move around freely & with peace of mind to ultimately satisfy all parties, be it the governments, my partner & the business needs.
My main concern is that I fear not seeing possible flaws in my approach and possible consequences resulting from that and do not understand the likelihood of a best- or worst-case scenario and what they would mean to me or the business.
Ultimately I want to find a strategy that works legally and mixes well with my life.

My idea:
UAE Freezone with real office & substance over time, while I personally remain flexible through:
First - For as long as management & control remains in my hands I fully disclose my foreign FZE company to the country I reside in (if required) and pay their corporate tax rate, while having the advantage to move out personally whenever I want to without affecting the business

Second - Slowly hiring great talent & building a C-Level team in UAE focussing on long-term growth that ultimately takes over management and most of the control while
Third - Remaining majority or 100% shareholder & UBO once the company runs without me

About my past:
- EU national of HT country Belgium
- Successful experience with digital advertising online in various fields & day-trading
- was highly profitable in the 7 digits yearly (was only working alone on the main parts, with easy tasks outsourced to freelancers)
- Lived as digital nomad since 2016 & operated with a Free Zone (Flexi Desk, Ajman) using EMI's
- spent ~4 months/year in Cyprus as non-dom

My problem with UAE only:
- Can't move UAE forever due to a relationship, where my loved partner (not official, meaning not married, not engaged) is still going to college in Denmark until mid of 2021
- partner does not want to move to UAE ever due to known human rights issues & would not want to visit me if I had an apartment in UAE

My problem with Cyprus:
Disclaimer: my partner and I love CY personally for its good weather, slow-paced life and our few friends there. All problems listed are business-related.
- CFC rules: unclear if / very unlikely that CY remains tax-free for individuals using offshore entities due to (I would be fine with 12.5% tax, hear me out...*)
- CY residents/companies do not get USD details with Transferwise, *which was the main bank-replacement I used in the past...
- lack of talent in CY (correct me if I am wrong please) I feel the need to establish something real where there is lots of talent & opportunity

Why UAE?
- Access to anything needed, from easy banking (with substance only) to top-notch talent and international relationships
- 0% tax company

Life Preferences: Productivity, Health & Seeing partner
Due to productivity reasons I do not want to travel a lot anymore. I rather prefer having 2 - 4 home bases and easy access to an office, cafe or coworking space. UAE being one of them, Denmark being the second for this & next year. 3-4 months time in each of them. Obviously the less travel & home bases the better. My only criteria would be health & productivity and to see my partner as much as possible during these startup times. I like sun, good food & fitness, not much more that I need.

Questions about potential home-bases:

About CYPRUS
1 a) - Do I need to pro-actively disclose company profits / losses to Cyprus? What is the worst that can happen if I don't?
In case of Cyprus, I got told by a Cypriot consultant I don't trust, that there is likely no one asking and in case they find out about it ther is supposedly no fine and just paying due corporate taxes with some interest is enough. That would be ideal, but I doubt that it works like this.

1 b) - If I do not get tax resident in Cyprus on purpose by not paying social security & staying less than f.e. 3-4 months while renting a holiday appartment there available year-round to me, am I disregarded for tax purposes or not?
The same Cypriot consultant I don't trust, told me that renting a "vacation home" in Cyprus and staying there for less than 183 days a year does not make you taxable. Since I know CY already, it is a candidate (but not the only candidate) for a home base.

2) In case I do become a tax resident of any country other than UAE or Cyprus, is operating a foreign company okay while disclosing and paying the corporate tax pro-actively enough or is it a bureaucracy hell that I should avoid? Will they let me move away freely or charge exit tax as well?
If I were able to send the audited financials and just pay my fair share and they leave me alone I would not be bothered too much with that. I want to find out how flexible I can be with being transparent operating a foreign entity.


3) - If I spend equal time in say 3-4 countries each year and I only have a furnished apartment in a no tax country (f.e. UAE), how likely is a HT country claiming tax successfully?

4) What combination would work?

I hate bureaucracy and would prefer a way where I only have to disclose to UAE. If that is not possible, I am looking for the best alternative.
I mean I have a lot of options, which is making it very hard ultimately. All the countries I mention now, I want to have an appartment/office in to "be at home".
I thought about combining
A - UAE, Georgia & Cyprus. 3 months in each.
B - UAE, Georgia, another country of choice with flexible long-term rental (Thailand, Bali, ...). 3 months in each.
C - 6 months Cyprus & paying 12.5% on foreign company profit
D - 6 months Cyprus not paying corporate tax on individually-owned foreign entity
D - Your suggestion is highly welcomed

Sorry that I bombarded y'all with tons of info and dragged you into my own dilemma. The matter is very complex to me and I struggle finding a clear solution that I can follow in the future for full peace of mind and a quality life with my partner while building a meaningful business.

Your help is highly appreciated
 
- Can't move UAE forever due to a relationship, where my loved partner (not official, meaning not married, not engaged) is still going to college in Denmark until mid of 2021
- partner does not want to move to UAE ever due to known human rights issues & would not want to visit me if I had an apartment in UAE

First mistake? Your making decisions based on some broad you happen to be screwing thats not even your wife? :rolleyes:

I thought about combining
A - UAE, Georgia & Cyprus. 3 months in each.
B - UAE, Georgia, another country of choice with flexible long-term rental (Thailand, Bali, ...). 3 months in each.

Playing musical chairs with the taxman aint a good idea going forward and is not a long term plan. The first thing to do is find one country you will call your base i.e tax base and actually live there.

Second thing work out who wears the pants in the relationship and make decisions for you and you alone.

Once you decided on those two things then look at structures that will work.
 
First of all thanks for your fast reply and total honesty @Martin Everson .

In general you are right, I would say the same to someone else who just met their partner. In our case we are not married yet but we would be in an easy world. it's just that we did not want to make it "official" due to potential problems by the so called taxman accusing one or the other of having a "center of life" in an unwanted location. We are together for a decade now, just to give some perspective and it is going great in general, we just have chosen different life paths professionally.

Regarding the main base that's also my tax base: That is exactly what I try to achieve right now.

Let me clarify.
I want to find out if having a foreign company in your tax base country is easy to work with by playing with fully open cards or if that is just a headache. In the real world there are benefits of owning / operating a foreign company other than just tax savings. But if the taxman is bothering you even more just because your company is not registered in their jurisdiction it's practically worse.

I am trying to find a setup that is both practical and flexible at the same time.
I do not want to dodge nor evade taxes.

I rather want to find out if playing fully transparently with everyone works or if having a simplified setup where everything has to be onshore.

Based on what the general advise here is I will either stay in UAE, Cyprus or another beneficial country *fully* (at least 6+ months a year and asking partner to come for 3 months) or I will have multiple home bases.
 
Hi,
as I read that you have allready a settlement in Cyprus I would advise you to stay there.
I am sure that your advisor told you the correct things. There is lot of greyzone in CFC rules etc. Especially I heard that old yellow slips before 2019 are even more safe in terms of CFC stuff because they guaranty the condtions for 17 years (that´s what I heard from some people and I could not find that this is not true. No one could answer this 100% so how should I know this as a stupid immigrant when even lawyer can not really answer). I interpreted this that I can operate without CFC. And in worst case you pay some taxes in few years. Cyprus is great residency in EU for your purpose . You are allready in top leag of flexibility , costs, compliance etc. (it is in EU what makes a lot stuff easier maybe).
I think it is not worth to change a running system as I am sure that Cyprus will allways support online businesses men from abroad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KJK and JohnLocke
Appreciate your opinion @dlttrading. But as you said, there is only a vague opinion of various consultants and nothing assuring. I agree in general that CY is still great, especially for EU. But I fear that I am not well served in Cyprus when it comes to finding talented staff, banks are shitty and I am not comfortable building a big company by using grayzone-practices. If I would continue staying in CY, I would play openly.

Stay in Dubai and get a new girlfriend.

If I had to choose between a girl I love and paying taxes, I choose not paying taxes and 4 wives.

I agree from a business perspective. But life is more than just profits for me. I also wouldn't be too comfortable with a partner outside of marriage in UAE as there are potential penalties involved. How does dating even work in UAE (no hate, just curious)?
 
  • Like
Reactions: JohnLocke
Stay in Dubai and get a new girlfriend.

If I had to choose between a girl I love and paying taxes, I choose not paying taxes and 4 wives.
Not sure if the average of people agree to that. The thought is funny anyway.
 
I want to find out if having a foreign company in your tax base country is easy to work with by playing with fully open cards or if that is just a headache.

A complete headache unless your living in a tax free country and foreign company is in a tax free country.

Based on what the general advise here is I will either stay in UAE, Cyprus or another beneficial country *fully* (at least 6+ months a year and asking partner to come for 3 months) or I will have multiple home bases.

If you can stay in a tax free country fully then you solve a lot of future problems. Relationship wise UAE and Tawajed clause won't work for you as an unmarried couple. It is forbidden in Dubai to live with someone of opposite sex who is not your wife or blood family. However a blind eye is turned to this fact for foreigners until a local citizen complains and then your thrown in jail begging for embassy assistance before being kicked out of country for breaking the law.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: realdealbusiness
The question really is:
What is the best place for building a real business with sustainable growth long-term ?

Once I got a solution for this, I can settle there and everything else will fall into place if I keep doing what I do best, which is working productively on the business.

@Martin Everson @Admin @dlttrading @Narco


I think cypriot holding + local subsidary companies should be okay to buy real estate in most countries. But you need to double check.
When it comes to real estate I would do it as easy structured as possible in order to have support of local banks in each country. So you can use bank loans for real estate or you can do this in few years when you don´t want loans now ( but you have at least the possibility to grow with banks help). The easiest is often to buy on your private name or local companies name. Than you need 6 months payment slips of high salary payments (not dividend only salary) . Than you can get NON RESITENT REAL ESTATE LOAN easily. I would not buy in the name of offshore structure because this way get´s more complicate as long you don´t invest a few millions .
 
Well, the way I see it, Cyprus works for you (if you're okay with paying the taxes there). Rent a flat there. Rent or even buy a small office for your company (so you have some substance). Get all the paperwork nice and clean. Get tax residency. Have a salary (and pay all contributions for it). And enjoy your life and the weather there. You can travel to DK but don't stay there a more than 1 month at once. And you'll be just fine. Try to make Cyprus your real home. You can find a lot of help there how to optimize you taxes etc.

Relationship wise UAE and Tawajed clause won't work for you as an unmarried couple. It is forbidden in Dubai to live with someone of opposite sex who is not your wife or blood family. However a blind eye is turned to this fact for foreigners until a local citizen complains and then your thrown in jail begging for embassy assistance before being kicked out of country for breaking the law.

This is absolutely true. The slightest thing and you'll be in serious trouble and your GF will end up in jail. (Because, there they jail girls in these cases not men).
So, unless you're married, there is no reason to live there together.
 
Are you asking for opinions or for a professional advise?

I understand your concerns about UAE. Anyway you can keep your residence and Freezone company there, just needs a visit each 183 days.

Non Dom Cyprus: it is still the best option in EU. If you want to leave EU you should consider Paraguay or Georgia because of their territorial tax systems. Means: you can build up a team in Georgia with talented people for a low cost, make this your tax residence according to 183 or HNWI rule and still use a holding in Cyprus and/ or UAE Freezone company.
For residence you still have Monaco as an option if you don't mind the high rents - but you are close to Denmark and all important European cities.

2 hours would not be enough to go through all options, but I am sure you understand my point.
 
Honestly if you make that kind of money, I would probably look into Monaco (because that’s where the really rich people stay) or maybe a place like Singapore (highly developed, territorial taxation, local talent, attractive corporate tax system, no capital gains tax, ...). Or Dubai, but I guess that’s not an option.

But also, with that kind of money, you shouldn’t be asking in a forum like this, but rather talk to a good tax lawyer, ideally from a big international accounting company. Someone who’s an actual lawyer, not some self-taught people on the internet - no matter how smart they may be (and I’ve learned a lot here). Maybe @Gediminas can recommend someone, I think he mentioned somewhere else he works with a lawyer. Otherwise I would probably check BIG4 companies, even if it’s going to be expensive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gediminas
Since you already mentioned Georgia,
there is free zones in Georgia as well. You can set them up for around 6000 usd and keep them running for about 5000usd/year. They are completely tax free as far as Georgia is concerned, even if you life in the country, which is very easy to do. If you build substance in Georgia (additional 400EUR/month for 1 employee) you can also remain in Cyprus and receive dividends tax free (very good double taxation agreement)
 
Thanks everyone. I decided to stay in Cyprus for now. My approach will be to build a legit company in Cyprus with substance (employees, office, substance, local directors) first, pay the damn taxes here and once everything works without me, I will re-consider if I stay or leave.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dlttrading
You do some math first. Visit accountants in CY... Ask questions make plans...

pay the damn taxes here and once everything works without me, I will re-consider if I stay or leave.

Then after you know all the details (costs, how things will work etc) then you should re-consider staying or leaving part...
Not after you dig yourself in there...
 
You do some math first. Visit accountants in CY... Ask questions make plans...



Then after you know all the details (costs, how things will work etc) then you should re-consider staying or leaving part...
Not after you dig yourself in there...

The math is really simple. 12.5% tax and some peanuts (max.3000€) on dividends and social security contributions if I decide to stay less than 6 months. That's about it. I already talked to many accountants here. Sure I would make more profit if I go to a no-tax country but it's not just about taxes for me... I can live a fairly good quality life here with nice weather, beaches, lots to do and am free to move around.

And I will try to just attract talent (if I need any locally) from Greece, Cyprus, Israel, Hungary and the rest of Europe really.. I mean there are already lots of people residing here from abroad - so it can't be that hard to convince someone. And since everything is online it shouldn't be that hard to work remotely with most people.

I see this as a long-term solution now to build proper substance somewhere. Since it's in the EU, there should never be any problem with another country. I could still receive dividends from really anywhere. And if I go for something like the NHR status in Portugal later in 2-3 years, I could receive those tax-free legally. Or at least relatively tax-efficient in other countries...

I just don't want to waste more time on researching tax-stuff without getting anything meaningful done. That's also the only tax-efficient setup I see mixing well with my partner for now...
 
Register now
You must login or register to view hidden content on this page.