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Where would you live once you are happy with your passive income?
- Thread starter scooterguy
- Start date
Awesome food, nice beaches (and bitches), temperate climate... What else can you ask for?
Phone/internet plans kind suck tho but Starlink covers Greece iirc
Weather in winter is not so great and in summer the heat can be unbearable.
Also, many beaches are infested by vicious drunk and loud tourists.
Finally, Greece is a slave of the EU, which makes it dangerous.
True but thats the same almost everywhere. I like my AC tho.
Sorry, sometimes I cannot make myself responsible for the things I do.
True, no arguing here.
This a bug bear i've had to come to terms with.
I have a similar set up (slightly better views) it gets boring and the lack of intelligent discussion is annoying, most around are old and not active in the circuit anymore .
Greece i love, but it's basically on life support, next stage is raiding the peoples wealth directly...
This is what concerned me with Thailand, then we had a hair-brained PM come in and immediately impose new taxes... lol
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I understand retirees wanting to move to the south of Spain because of the weather, but in order to be happy in Spain you should become as ignorant as you can, if you learn about all the problems that Spain is facing you would never move to Spain. And becoming "Autónomo" means that you'll have to pay X amount of money every month regardless of how much money you make (there are too many reasons why it's a had idea to become "Autónomo") you can do freelance without having to become "Autónomo."
Most of my friends who have some money have left or are planning on leaving Spain (no point in talking about Spain and the Socialist/Communist government, plus evil Hacienda.)
I just came back from Portugal, loved it, the people are nicer, food is cheaper, great weather, overall less expensive.... Although I would stay away from the EUSSR.
Most of my friends who have some money have left or are planning on leaving Spain (no point in talking about Spain and the Socialist/Communist government, plus evil Hacienda.)
I just came back from Portugal, loved it, the people are nicer, food is cheaper, great weather, overall less expensive.... Although I would stay away from the EUSSR.
Tax on dividends is also progressive in Spain, up to 26% if more than 200k€. The point is to check from what country you are getting your dividends and if a WHT would be applied. Getting to avoid double taxation can become touchy. Note also that Spanish authorities might also investigate the business you are receiving your dividends from. Is it a tax “exotic” country ? Can you prove you have nothing to do with the management of that business (it has its own local directors, offices, employees, etc.) ? If not, the business profit might be taxed in Spain because they consider it managed from Spain. Depending how much taxes you are ready to pay lump sum tax countries could be a good option (Italy, Greece, Switzerland, Gibraltar … ). In Spain, you could also look at their new impatriate status (so called Beckham Law ). Flat rate of 24% up to 600k income. No wealth, capital gain , dividends tax if abroad. For 5 years only though.I've reached a point in which I'm content with my investment income, and at the same time I'm getting tired of constant changing tax policies in all countries.
I feel that 10-15 years ago it made sense to live in 3rd world countries that lacked regulations or foreign tax policies. One could save a lot of money, run their offshore businesses freely, invest and reinvest, etc. The downside was that one didn't get anything in return (no social security for example, usually no path to PR or anything like that). It was all mostly about the money.
Nowadays, all these cool, free 3rd world countries are joining CRS, and many of them are starting to tax foreign income and increasing regulations. They're losing their appeal, getting uglier. Like a girl that was once beautiful and easy-going, but now you can tell she's going old and high-maintenance. Maybe a bit crazy too.
So, I'm changing my way of thinking. Or maybe it's the world that is changing. Maybe a bit of both. But, in any case, third world countries are becoming less attractive to me.
I'm thinking about countries such Spain to move to. I know it's a tax hell but it's not that bad for investment income (19% on dividends and capital gains on progressive rates from 19% to 26%). It's also clean, safe and generally organized.
I could also register as self-employed there to do some freelance work on the side (this can be taxed highly but the progressive tax means that it's not so bad for a few thousand euros a month of extra pocket money). This also gives me social security and a path to PR/citizenship that could be useful in the future.
However, I'm interested in the opinions of others, maybe some other possible countries I'm not considering. Mainly what I'm looking for:
* No wealth tax or low wealth tax (Spain's wealth tax is fine, and some communities of Spain don't have it, although that's likely temporary).
* Dividend income tax at ~20% or less.
* The possibility of easily registering as self-employed to do some work.
* Relatively good weather (i.e., UK is off limits).
* No countries with weird laws (i.e., tired of UAE or Singapore and risking going to jail for stupid sh*t).
Interested in your opinions! And thanks for reading this long post!
If you hold a lot of US stocks that pay you dividends you need to make sure that there is a DTT with the country you plan to move to and US so you do not end up double taxed (30% withholding tax in US and then in the country with dividend tax). Spain has one so that's not the issue but still taxes are bit high there, tax office is rigid and they are not an English speaking country (not sure if that's important to you).
So I would advise you to consider Cyprus. If you like hot and sunny weather and Mediterranean climate: you could establish your residency there and you would pay lower taxes than in Spain and you would be required to spend only 60 days a year in Cyprus and nowhere else more than 183 days and that's it. If you like Spain you could buy a property there and spend 5 months/year there and a couple more months in Italy, Malta, Turkey or Croatia and you'll have Mediterranean climate all year long. Also if you want to freelance, taxes on that are probably the lowest in Europe so it's a great deal.
So I would advise you to consider Cyprus. If you like hot and sunny weather and Mediterranean climate: you could establish your residency there and you would pay lower taxes than in Spain and you would be required to spend only 60 days a year in Cyprus and nowhere else more than 183 days and that's it. If you like Spain you could buy a property there and spend 5 months/year there and a couple more months in Italy, Malta, Turkey or Croatia and you'll have Mediterranean climate all year long. Also if you want to freelance, taxes on that are probably the lowest in Europe so it's a great deal.
I'm from Latin America, so no problems with the language. I agree Spanish taxes are high though, and Hacienda can be a pain.
I am considering it, but the problem is that Cyprus is relatively expensive, and I don't know if I want to live there. If I'm only 60 days a year there, having to go there every year may get tiring eventually.
Cost of Living Index 2024
Rankings: Cost of Living Index, Restaurant Prices Index, Transportation Price Index, Grocery Price Index, Local Purchasing Power Index, ...
- Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Spain 45.2
- Alicante, Spain 49.7
- Limassol, Cyprus 62.3
- Paphos, Cyprus 54.5
Yes, going somewhere because you HAVE to do it is no fun.
In your case - just go to Spain, pay taxes and enjoy it!
Cost of Living Index 2024
Rankings: Cost of Living Index, Restaurant Prices Index, Transportation Price Index, Grocery Price Index, Local Purchasing Power Index, ...www.numbeo.com
Cyprus is similar to Spain. Recently it has become more expensive because of influx of Russians. Wait for the WW3 in Middle East to see how that changes the picture
- Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Spain 45.2
- Alicante, Spain 49.7
- Limassol, Cyprus 62.3
- Paphos, Cyprus 54.5
How is it similar when even the links you shared show Cyprus more expensive? Even Madrid is cheaper than Limassol.
But of course, in this forum, when Cyprus is mentioned, the bias is palpable. Lots of agents around I guess.
I guess that in Spain you have more options as it's a huge country (compared to Cyprus) and you could find cheaper places to buy/rent.
Also you could buy a lot of locally produced items that are cheaper and in Cyprus 90%+ of items are imported so it makes them more expensive. (on top or influx of Russian/Ukrainian people raising prices)
According to this: Limassol is more expensive in every category than Madrid, but will that compensate with higher taxes in Spain?
Malaysia might fit the developed country criteria in some locations.
Afaik no tax on overseas income, visa available through investment,
good travel / banking options all around, safe place regarding EU, Russia, China, and any upcoming wars.
It's not just Kuala Lumpur or Penang, you can also choose Langawi, Sarawak or Cyberjaya, depending what you are looking for.
Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam are just a cheap AIRAsia flight away and you can have a quiet, maybe even boring, homebase.
Oh, don't forget to take a look at Andorra as well, it might appeal to you.
Afaik no tax on overseas income, visa available through investment,
good travel / banking options all around, safe place regarding EU, Russia, China, and any upcoming wars.
It's not just Kuala Lumpur or Penang, you can also choose Langawi, Sarawak or Cyberjaya, depending what you are looking for.
Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam are just a cheap AIRAsia flight away and you can have a quiet, maybe even boring, homebase.
Oh, don't forget to take a look at Andorra as well, it might appeal to you.
It's hard to say, but the thing is that when it comes to tax from dividend income from foreign investments, especially investments in USA, I would still pay more tax in Cyprus.
In any case, I don't have to choose between Spain and Cyprus. I have pretty much discarded Cyprus already, for many reasons (expensive, everything imported, small country, being an island, etc.).
But I'm still not totally convinced by Spain, due to the high taxes. It ticks all the boxes otherwise.
Probably Italy.
Specifically Portofino or Florence. with winter frequent trips to the Swiss alps (Grindlewald)
Would balance it out with a trip to HK, couple of months in SE Asia (Thai) and a month in the Caribbean.
Having said that, i've achieved all what you said would need to be achieved and I appear to be stuck in SE Asia.
Alongside that you have the religious policing.
But it is one place i've looked into for peace of mind (tax wise).
Yet frequently i am talking to people, ranging from 30's to 70's that are moving to Marbella.
Personal (family have properties there still) I wouldn't do it, ok for a short holiday or summer break, but so inconsistent politically. kinda like Portugal enticing all the crypto bros then rugging them...
Specifically Portofino or Florence. with winter frequent trips to the Swiss alps (Grindlewald)
Would balance it out with a trip to HK, couple of months in SE Asia (Thai) and a month in the Caribbean.
Having said that, i've achieved all what you said would need to be achieved and I appear to be stuck in SE Asia.
Only issue with Malaysia, is apart from KL, most of the country including Langkawi, and Penang, still feels very much Colonial *ok great* but structurally, they've not really improved the country.
Alongside that you have the religious policing.
But it is one place i've looked into for peace of mind (tax wise).
A lot of people i know seem to be moving to Malaga, back in the hay day Marbella -> down the coast was my stomping ground, it was flourishing, then the EURO came out and the country nose-dived.I guess that in Spain you have more options as it's a huge country (compared to Cyprus) and you could find cheaper places to buy/rent.
Also you could buy a lot of locally produced items that are cheaper and in Cyprus 90%+ of items are imported so it makes them more expensive. (on top or influx of Russian/Ukrainian people raising prices)
According to this: Limassol is more expensive in every category than Madrid, but will that compensate with higher taxes in Spain?
View attachment 5494
Yet frequently i am talking to people, ranging from 30's to 70's that are moving to Marbella.
Personal (family have properties there still) I wouldn't do it, ok for a short holiday or summer break, but so inconsistent politically. kinda like Portugal enticing all the crypto bros then rugging them...
How come?
Let's say you get 20k USD/year from publicly listed US companies as dividends.
How much tax would you pay in Spain vs Cyprus?
There is a DTA between Spain and the US, as a Spanish resident you'd pay 19% tax.
There is no DTA between Cyprus and the US, as a resident of Cyprus you'd have to pay the 30% US withholding tax.
As said already, 19% is up to 6000€. The rate is progressive ! See PWC source for Spain :
Dividend income
Dividends and other income generated from holding interests in companies are included in PIT savings income and taxed at a 19% tax rate up to the first EUR 6,000 of income, a 21% tax rate for the following EUR 6,000 to EUR 50,000 of income, a 23% tax rate for the following EUR 50,000 to EUR 200,000, a 27% tax rate for the following EUR 200,000 to EUR 300,000, and a 28% tax rate on any remaining income.Are you 100% sure there’s no DTA between Cyprus and US ? I doubt it. But I might be wrong of course …
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