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Wise - change adress to Cyprus - account closing?
- Thread starter bigbite100
- Start date
Yes it will close
Their AI will track your IP so they will know that you live in Cyprus now
They will close it anyway but your case will speed it up
Wise has stopped onboarding business clients from Cyprus. If it's a personal account, it'll probably be fine.
If your company is incorporated outside of Cyprus and you are the sole director/shareholder and have moved to Cyprus, there is a risk they'll offboard the account. But from what I've seen, residents in places like Cyprus where they have paused onboarding of new companies can still open business accounts for companies formed elsewhere.
If your company is incorporated outside of Cyprus and you are the sole director/shareholder and have moved to Cyprus, there is a risk they'll offboard the account. But from what I've seen, residents in places like Cyprus where they have paused onboarding of new companies can still open business accounts for companies formed elsewhere.
I agree with @Sols; nevertheless I consider necessary to add, that in my deep opinion, founded on some experience of mine and others, the behaviour of Wise is really not well predictable (except of cases of a clear TOS break or so).
So if I were you, I would avoid this change unless
– either it is absolutely necessary for some extenal reasons;
– or that account is really dispensable.
I agree with most here, you may not gamble with your current account, better setup a new entity in a country supported by Wise and get a new account for this new company.
Utnil now no one can give an answer regarding wise and CRS
Some say it report and some say it dont
Anyway wise is a high risk EMI and thank god i avoided it
If there are no other significant risk indicators on the account, if you're moving intra-EU/EEA/UK/CH (especially as an EU/EEA/UK/CH national), and if the amount of money transacted on the account is less than a few thousand a month with general transaction pattern remaining largely unchanged, it's usually not a big deal to forget to change address right away. Wise might eventually contact you to change, once their system detects you've been in Cyprus a very long time or your account is subject to repeat due diligence. At that point, Wise might inquire about your Cypriot TIN (TIC).
What's the approximate volume of transactions? If it's not too large, I don't see the point of telling them, you can use a VPN when logging in to your account.
If they somehow sense that you have moved (unlikely), you can just tell them you are in a long vacation across the Greek islands and considering moving there permanently.
As long as you comply with your tax obligations in Cyprus, the worst thing that can happen is that Wise closes your account.
If they somehow sense that you have moved (unlikely), you can just tell them you are in a long vacation across the Greek islands and considering moving there permanently.
As long as you comply with your tax obligations in Cyprus, the worst thing that can happen is that Wise closes your account.
All EMIs are same just few are good
I use dukascopy but i put the money i need and i dont mind losing it
Dukascopy may close your account any time and i got rejected from wise because they dont want a company owner as their client
Note: dukascopy is for currency exchange purposes
Otherwise i will be happy now with Zenus as i dont care about going out of USD
I think WISE will be doing full reporting.
I am certain this post will be read like I am a doom doom kinda guy
... and you can think this is a kinda sad rave about the ways things have been and are likely heading.
Anyway... experience has taught me its best to think ahead and include worst case scenarios in calculations sooner rather than later... and try to make better informed choices now according to my risk comfort levels and where the trends are heading.
The reason for the tone of this post is just to encourage newbies to take a lot of care as they plan ahead... even about something that looks as simple and 'innocent' as selecting what addresses to tell their banks and EMI's. What is doable today can be a trap in the future.
In my view it should be possible - with care - to avoid some future troubles while maintaining a sense of freedom and personal independence.
So here goes my ideas about where banks and EMI reporting is likely heading in the years ahead, and some examples about how that could lead to people getting caught out ... and what might be the consequences of being caught out if we have not got a working plan in place today - or soonish?
I expect (and therefore plan for) sooner or later every bank and EMI like WISE will be reporting on its customer accounts to all the countries that match identified customer addresses.
For example, we have known for some years that georgia will enter the c2c reporting probably in 2024. This year - in preparation for Georgia starting in 2024 - WISE now shows total account value in Lari for Georgia based account holders. I don't think it's possible to hold any Lari in a WISE account, but total value is now reported in statements in Lari. The trend is clear!
The forward thinker asks themselves some questions.... am I prepared for what I know is coming? Experienced travellers know it's getting harder all the time.
A lot of attention gets paid to managing todays known issues... but equal care and attention should be given to planning and avoiding how todays decisions might backfire further into the future as trends get harder.
and, since one level of reporting inevitably leads to yet another broader level of reporting, therefore am I prepared for what I reasonably expect will come even later in 2025/6/7/8?
... where might this trend of ever increasing c2c reporting take us and what are its likely outcomes and how might they affect me (based on how they might later assess my past and current activities)?
To try and put this more clearly... One really important question to ask is: Is it possible that the choices and things people got away with in the past, and the things people get away with today, might possibly turn into a trap and a problem for me in the future?
Is it possible with realistic planning today to limit or avoid those possible future problems?
Lots of people with private Swiss accounts (that they were not declaring) carried on merrily for years and years, and many did not pay enough attention to the reporting trends. "Everyone was doing it" was no consolation when the doo dah hit the fan. They eventually found out they were not prepared properly, and they found out the hard way.
The conservative approach is probably to prepare for full reporting... and to prepare for that to then lead (eventually) to much closer attention to your residency and taxes, and for that to lead eventually to much greater sharing of data internationally.
Practically all the governments are signing on to share data and get a 'bigger' piece of the tax pie. Eventually, after getting as much as they can from current 'residents', then as the possible future next step... how far back might countries agree to go about share data in search of scarce tax incomes?
Statutes of limitations on tax prosecutions vary country by country. However, in some countries providing false reporting is likely not protected by statutes of limitations.
... and to return to the subject of bank and EMI reporting... for example if you are using an address with your bank or EMI that does not match your actual address and tax residency, then ask yourself now what will you do and how might you manage if this will become flagged?
One way could be like this: WISE will report to country A (since you gave WISE your address in country A), then country A will very easily search its tax records and if you are not tax resident or have not reported your income correctly based on your WISE account activities, then have you committed an offence in country A?
As the reporting increases, will country A report back to WISE that you are not a resident in their country? ... and possibly flag you as using 'false' address/es? What then? Only an uninformed person thinks your bank records are separate somehow to your tax records any more.
Perhaps you go to an accountant and ask their advice on your 'situation'? Is that a simple and safe step? Where is your accountant based? In some countries accountants are required by law to report to the tax office any client with tax irregularities or who is seeking to strategise to avoid taxes. Australia and the UK are 2 classic examples.
In any case, eventually (thinking ahead again about possible worst case scenarios and how to manage them) it's likely not using your real address and tax residency details for your bank and EMI accounts will _eventually_ be classed as some kind of crime (if it is not already in some countries)
So the worst case scenario planning goes to the next step... If you fall into some country's trap as having committed some minor tax crime, how might that impact your future?
Here is one example .... Opening accounts these days the institution asks for your existing accounts and references.. and if you are flagged in one now or in the future as rules tighten, then how will this roll out in the longer term for you? It's not just about your accounts being closed. It's about reporting by banks to countries as well.
Here is another example of potential consequences... everyone knows how residency application doors are closing these days for people with a 'criminal' record. Even a certain famous football player was refused simple entry to the UK due to a 'crime' in Spain. He wasn't even applying for residency!
Some residency applications these days ask for 5 or 10 years residency history and full international travel records.... and they ask for copies of every page of passports etc etc... and they specifically ask if you have any criminal record at all or any unpaid taxes or any tax offences... so is just submitting false answers to the government involved itself an offence? In the UK (for example) yes it is. It so easy to commit an 'offence' these days.
Residency applications include text stating the government has the right to 'share' and 'check' your information to determine if it's correct. Checking in the past might have been very limited. Governments have ever increasing capacity to check these days.
As a rule, continuing to do what worked in the past, or doing what others do today, is not always a safe forward looking solution. Data is being collected about our pasts as well as our current activities. As said already, every time we fill out a government form it says they have the right to share data and check.
The flight of capital out of Geneva was brought on by the introduction of beneficial ownership reporting and many EU residents with 'activities' in and through Swiss financial management companies ended up in court when reporting started, and no happy endings for them even though they had money and access to 'clever advisors'.
So what is 'doable' yesterday and today does not mean it won't turn into a trap for you down the track. Be prepared with forward thinking and acceptance of the clear trends of ever increasing collecting, reporting and sharing of data about everyone is the way it is and we can think it will only become more prevalent. In most cases one level of reporting gets introduced, that goes through it trial phase, and eventually fully working working, then the next level of reporting gets introduced... and so the risks increase. Young newbies really don't want to get trapped one day being flagged and unable to travel due to some 'crime' they committed by something as simple as incorrect address reporting. It's hard enough to satisfy the data gathers even when your affairs are fully regularised!! This week I applied to my bank to use their online payments app on our website - we have good passports, have full economic substance in this country and blue chip customers and fully tax compliant... and they refused. No reasons given and by law they do not need to give any. So it's not just WISE and other EMI's that are getting harder, mainstream banks want to wash their hands of ANY risk by simply refusing to provide a service. If it's hard for a fully regularised person and business today, then what is ahead for those who leave it too late to get regularised? Better for newbies not to open the door by taking uninformed decisions today.
Hoping this provokes some thinking amongst the newbies, and at least do continue to seek out advice from experienced providers and Mentors who can share with you their insights. The best will be able to explain how their suggested strategies are addressing the current and future trends.
Good luck to us all. If we are not lucky people then hopefully good planning will be enough .
I meant to also say:
Is your bank or EMI caring about you and your circumstances? Many cases reported where institutions put their own risk management far ahead of individual customers and their rights and interests. They simply close accounts that fall outside their ever increasing tight customer profiles. They fall to increasing pressure from governments... and will do what governments ask them as its governments that control their licenses and right to work as an institution.
Some people talk about the current international reporting and data sharing laws as if they will never get wider or harder... and people could think they are also saying you don't need to worry too much about this trend. But all you need to do is check how long these laws have been around at all. Things change fast these days. Certainly within one life span!
I am certain this post will be read like I am a doom doom kinda guy
... and you can think this is a kinda sad rave about the ways things have been and are likely heading. Anyway... experience has taught me its best to think ahead and include worst case scenarios in calculations sooner rather than later... and try to make better informed choices now according to my risk comfort levels and where the trends are heading.
The reason for the tone of this post is just to encourage newbies to take a lot of care as they plan ahead... even about something that looks as simple and 'innocent' as selecting what addresses to tell their banks and EMI's. What is doable today can be a trap in the future.
In my view it should be possible - with care - to avoid some future troubles while maintaining a sense of freedom and personal independence.
So here goes my ideas about where banks and EMI reporting is likely heading in the years ahead, and some examples about how that could lead to people getting caught out ... and what might be the consequences of being caught out if we have not got a working plan in place today - or soonish?
I expect (and therefore plan for) sooner or later every bank and EMI like WISE will be reporting on its customer accounts to all the countries that match identified customer addresses.
For example, we have known for some years that georgia will enter the c2c reporting probably in 2024. This year - in preparation for Georgia starting in 2024 - WISE now shows total account value in Lari for Georgia based account holders. I don't think it's possible to hold any Lari in a WISE account, but total value is now reported in statements in Lari. The trend is clear!
The forward thinker asks themselves some questions.... am I prepared for what I know is coming? Experienced travellers know it's getting harder all the time.
A lot of attention gets paid to managing todays known issues... but equal care and attention should be given to planning and avoiding how todays decisions might backfire further into the future as trends get harder.
and, since one level of reporting inevitably leads to yet another broader level of reporting, therefore am I prepared for what I reasonably expect will come even later in 2025/6/7/8?
... where might this trend of ever increasing c2c reporting take us and what are its likely outcomes and how might they affect me (based on how they might later assess my past and current activities)?
To try and put this more clearly... One really important question to ask is: Is it possible that the choices and things people got away with in the past, and the things people get away with today, might possibly turn into a trap and a problem for me in the future?
Is it possible with realistic planning today to limit or avoid those possible future problems?
Lots of people with private Swiss accounts (that they were not declaring) carried on merrily for years and years, and many did not pay enough attention to the reporting trends. "Everyone was doing it" was no consolation when the doo dah hit the fan. They eventually found out they were not prepared properly, and they found out the hard way.
The conservative approach is probably to prepare for full reporting... and to prepare for that to then lead (eventually) to much closer attention to your residency and taxes, and for that to lead eventually to much greater sharing of data internationally.
Practically all the governments are signing on to share data and get a 'bigger' piece of the tax pie. Eventually, after getting as much as they can from current 'residents', then as the possible future next step... how far back might countries agree to go about share data in search of scarce tax incomes?
Statutes of limitations on tax prosecutions vary country by country. However, in some countries providing false reporting is likely not protected by statutes of limitations.
... and to return to the subject of bank and EMI reporting... for example if you are using an address with your bank or EMI that does not match your actual address and tax residency, then ask yourself now what will you do and how might you manage if this will become flagged?
One way could be like this: WISE will report to country A (since you gave WISE your address in country A), then country A will very easily search its tax records and if you are not tax resident or have not reported your income correctly based on your WISE account activities, then have you committed an offence in country A?
As the reporting increases, will country A report back to WISE that you are not a resident in their country? ... and possibly flag you as using 'false' address/es? What then? Only an uninformed person thinks your bank records are separate somehow to your tax records any more.
Perhaps you go to an accountant and ask their advice on your 'situation'? Is that a simple and safe step? Where is your accountant based? In some countries accountants are required by law to report to the tax office any client with tax irregularities or who is seeking to strategise to avoid taxes. Australia and the UK are 2 classic examples.
In any case, eventually (thinking ahead again about possible worst case scenarios and how to manage them) it's likely not using your real address and tax residency details for your bank and EMI accounts will _eventually_ be classed as some kind of crime (if it is not already in some countries)
So the worst case scenario planning goes to the next step... If you fall into some country's trap as having committed some minor tax crime, how might that impact your future?
Here is one example .... Opening accounts these days the institution asks for your existing accounts and references.. and if you are flagged in one now or in the future as rules tighten, then how will this roll out in the longer term for you? It's not just about your accounts being closed. It's about reporting by banks to countries as well.
Here is another example of potential consequences... everyone knows how residency application doors are closing these days for people with a 'criminal' record. Even a certain famous football player was refused simple entry to the UK due to a 'crime' in Spain. He wasn't even applying for residency!
Some residency applications these days ask for 5 or 10 years residency history and full international travel records.... and they ask for copies of every page of passports etc etc... and they specifically ask if you have any criminal record at all or any unpaid taxes or any tax offences... so is just submitting false answers to the government involved itself an offence? In the UK (for example) yes it is. It so easy to commit an 'offence' these days.
Residency applications include text stating the government has the right to 'share' and 'check' your information to determine if it's correct. Checking in the past might have been very limited. Governments have ever increasing capacity to check these days.
As a rule, continuing to do what worked in the past, or doing what others do today, is not always a safe forward looking solution. Data is being collected about our pasts as well as our current activities. As said already, every time we fill out a government form it says they have the right to share data and check.
The flight of capital out of Geneva was brought on by the introduction of beneficial ownership reporting and many EU residents with 'activities' in and through Swiss financial management companies ended up in court when reporting started, and no happy endings for them even though they had money and access to 'clever advisors'.
So what is 'doable' yesterday and today does not mean it won't turn into a trap for you down the track. Be prepared with forward thinking and acceptance of the clear trends of ever increasing collecting, reporting and sharing of data about everyone is the way it is and we can think it will only become more prevalent. In most cases one level of reporting gets introduced, that goes through it trial phase, and eventually fully working working, then the next level of reporting gets introduced... and so the risks increase. Young newbies really don't want to get trapped one day being flagged and unable to travel due to some 'crime' they committed by something as simple as incorrect address reporting. It's hard enough to satisfy the data gathers even when your affairs are fully regularised!! This week I applied to my bank to use their online payments app on our website - we have good passports, have full economic substance in this country and blue chip customers and fully tax compliant... and they refused. No reasons given and by law they do not need to give any. So it's not just WISE and other EMI's that are getting harder, mainstream banks want to wash their hands of ANY risk by simply refusing to provide a service. If it's hard for a fully regularised person and business today, then what is ahead for those who leave it too late to get regularised? Better for newbies not to open the door by taking uninformed decisions today.
Hoping this provokes some thinking amongst the newbies, and at least do continue to seek out advice from experienced providers and Mentors who can share with you their insights. The best will be able to explain how their suggested strategies are addressing the current and future trends.
Good luck to us all
. If we are not lucky people then hopefully good planning will be enough .I meant to also say:
Is your bank or EMI caring about you and your circumstances? Many cases reported where institutions put their own risk management far ahead of individual customers and their rights and interests. They simply close accounts that fall outside their ever increasing tight customer profiles. They fall to increasing pressure from governments... and will do what governments ask them as its governments that control their licenses and right to work as an institution.
Some people talk about the current international reporting and data sharing laws as if they will never get wider or harder... and people could think they are also saying you don't need to worry too much about this trend. But all you need to do is check how long these laws have been around at all. Things change fast these days. Certainly within one life span!
Last edited:
Do not to log into any bank / emi with a VPN! It's easly detectable and could result in account block for security reasons (they think you got hacked). Better to use high quality proxy instead
Not sure where you got this from.
I'm 100% of the time behind a VPN when I'm online, and never had any issues with banks or EMIs.
I think he might've meant don't login from one of those cheap/free VPNs where their IP addresses may have already been blacklisted. If you use a higher quality VPN, it should be fine, that's how most of us are doing it too.
Public VPN is indeed detectable. However that doesn't mean your account with bank will be blocked, especially if you're using the same VPN IP address everytime. They can also check other available data (browser, OS, screen resolution, color depth, language, cookies...etc).
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