Grenada CBI vs Greece Golden Visa – Which Makes Travel Easiest?

[CrazyPanda]

Hi OCT,

I’ve been living and running my business in Dubai for years. My current passport lets me visit about 125 countries visa-free, but not the EU, UK or US. I already hold a 10-year US visa, yet every time I need to travel to Europe or UK I battle with VFS appointments(family of 3), paperwork and endless waiting. I’m looking for a solution purely to simplify travel(not for tax or residence reasons) and I’ve narrowed it down to two options:

⸻

1. Grenada Citizenship-by-Investment (CBI)

Pros
• Lifetime citizenship with visa-free entry to the UK and EU.

Cons
• Recent UK/EU scrutiny of Caribbean CBI programmes, visa-waiver deals could be lost.
• Some banks and compliance teams flag CBI passports and I’d probably keep this passport “in the drawer.”

⸻

2. Greece Golden Visa – €500 k Time-Deposit Route

Pros
• No “donation” just park €500 k in a Greek bank for five years and renew as needed.
• EU programme, not black-listed by the OECD or FATF, so fewer compliance headaches.

Cons
• Processing can take longer.
• Still no visa-free UK travel but I can get a 5 or 10 year UK visa.

⸻

If you were a Dubai-based frequent flyer who just wants hassle-free travel, which route would you choose? Have I missed any big pros cons or recent rule changes?

Thanks in advance.

 

[daniels27]

Have you considered the Latvian entrepreneur visa?

 

[CrazyPanda]

Have you considered the Latvian entrepreneur visa?

Just noticed this program the cost is very reasonable. From what I understand, a five-year Latvian residency would cost me around €60,000 plus fees but I have to visit Latvia every year to renew my ID card. Traveling to Latvia with a family of three every year can be frustrating.

 

[daniels27]

Well, family of 3... I mean it cannot be smaller. I guess it is a nice trip to nice places.

 

[somop]

How about the "Malta Permanent Residence Programme"
It has 2 options
- option 1: 110K eur donatioan to the country + 2k donation to an NGO + 14K/year for property rental (only have to rent for 5 years and can keep the residency permit after)
- option 2: 80K eur donation to the country + 2K donation to an NGO + 375K property purchase (you can sell after 5 years and keep the residency permit)

 

[burden]

That’s a lot of money to put on the table if you want to get a Malta residence permit. What are the actual benefits of it, especially if you’re coming from somewhere like Sweden?

 

[daniels27]

That’s a lot of money to put on the table if you want to get a Malta residence permit. What are the actual benefits of it, especially if you’re coming from somewhere like Sweden?

What kind of question it this? Sweden is part of the EU and you have the right to live in Malta as much as you want for the rest of your live.

And contrary to OP, you won't get an EU foreigner card as you are not a non-EU-foreigner. Hence, no benefits to you. (Ok, maybe in case of COVID etc. restrictions, but for that you can just register normally there without any money involved.)

 

[dany]

Hence, no benefits to you.

What about taxes, there are less taxes to be paid in Malta.

 

[daniels27]

What about taxes, there are less taxes to be paid in Malta.

Yes, less taxes. But for the case of OP, he just wants to have less visa issues and does not want to spend time in the country. Hence, the taxes won't come to play. If you are from Sweden, you can move to UAE as OP and will have that problems sorted.

In any case, judging from the fact that many Chinese use Latvian visas, I guess it will be among the cheapest ones if you want to have a residence permit in the Schengen Area. There are more expensive solutions available, but I guess in the end, you really need to judge on your own. If travelling to Latvia once a year with a partner and one kid is a burden, you may be better off just applying for a Schengen visa whenever you need it. Unless you have so much money, that you can just block 500k USD on a bank account (opportunity costs probably minimum 20k per year).

In OP's case I would probably recommend trying to get a multi-entry Schengen visa. They can be issued for 2 years quite easily, while 5 years are possible for business or family reasons.

 

[meze99]

Many people have a naive idea that golden visas in EU are premium/fast track visas. In fact they are the most bureaucratic - way more documents needed/very long waiting times, in a nutshell they are an insult to common sense: there are plenty of options in EU to get a business residence permit faster with a monthly fee €250-€500 to maintain a dormant company and €3-5k to set it up with the help of a reliable local lawyer.

Since you don't need a residence permit in EU all you have to do is to find a reliable travel agent in UAE who knows how to get for his clients 2 or 5 years Schengen visas and is paid his premium after you get your visa (it may be not an easy task since UAE is full of scammers who would tell you they have friends at an embassy or can absolutely guarantee a 5 year visa if you pay him now $2k for example). That's all you need to do (no CBI bs, no golden visas). Some EU countries issue longer visas to encourage people to go there, some issue only for your trip dates, that's why you would need a good travel agent who knows where to apply for a visa.

Consider visiting countries that welcome you without a visa. I think we shouldn't visit countries that have a complicated visa system and require a personal visit to an embassy to be fingerprinted and interviewed. Most coutries visa requirements and visa-waiver agreements make very little sense as far as their national security is concerned and seem to be just a political tool that creates a sort of segregation system that is based on citizenship and not on color or race.

 

[Protect Your Wealth]

If you are not in a rush, you can apply for a permanent residency in Paraguay through the SUACE program and after 3 years request the naturalization.

Then, you can apply for the Spanish citizenship through your Paraguayan citizenship.

We take care of this process. Feel free to reach out if you want more info.

 

[Nigital Domad]

Many people have a naive idea that golden visas in EU are premium/fast track visas. In fact they are the most bureaucratic - way more documents needed/very long waiting times, in a nutshell they are an insult to common sense: there are plenty of options in EU to get a business residence permit faster with a monthly fee €250-€500 to maintain a dormant company and €3-5k to set it up with the help of a reliable local lawyer.

Since you don't need a residence permit in EU all you have to do is to find a reliable travel agent in UAE who knows how to get for his clients 2 or 5 years Schengen visas and is paid his premium after you get your visa (it may be not an easy task since UAE is full of scammers who would tell you they have friends at an embassy or can absolutely guarantee a 5 year visa if you pay him now $2k for example). That's all you need to do (no CBI bs, no golden visas). Some EU countries issue longer visas to encourage people to go there, some issue only for your trip dates, that's why you would need a good travel agent who knows where to apply for a visa.

Consider visiting countries that welcome you without a visa. I think we shouldn't visit countries that have a complicated visa system and require a personal visit to an embassy to be fingerprinted and interviewed. Most coutries visa requirements and visa-waiver agreements make very little sense as far as their national security is concerned and seem to be just a political tool that creates a sort of segregation system that is based on citizenship and not on color or race.

Can you say more about the business residence permit approach? This is not something spoken about often here. Any particular nations you would recommend for ease/speed/cost?

 

[luap]

If you are not in a rush, you can apply for a permanent residency in Paraguay through the SUACE program and after 3 years request the naturalization.

Then, you can apply for the Spanish citizenship through your Paraguayan citizenship.

We take care of this process. Feel free to reach out if you want more info.

It's very very difficult to get naturalized in Paraguay without real connections these days (family, home, language etc). Yes the law says 1 thing, but the practice in reality is different - and no lawyer will be refunding any payments wasted, they'll just blame the government. This I can confirm from a few legal professionals I've spoken to, and some I know personally.

Also if I recall correctly, Spain will only naturalise native Paraguayans in 2 years, not those born outside of Paraguay and naturalised there.

So what are you selling?

 

[Protect Your Wealth]

It's very very difficult to get naturalized in Paraguay without real connections these days (family, home, language etc). Yes the law says 1 thing, but the practice in reality is different - and no lawyer will be refunding any payments wasted, they'll just blame the government. This I can confirm from a few legal professionals I've spoken to, and some I know personally.

Also if I recall correctly, Spain will only naturalize native Paraguayans in 2 years, not those born outside of Paraguay and naturalised there.

So what are you selling?

That simply ain't true.

The vast majority of naturalization applications are rejected because there are missing documents or general flaws in the process of the naturalization request and incompetent lawyers blame a third party to not take any accountability for their bad practice.

We are Authorized Representatives in Immigration Matters for Paraguay, we handle these cases pretty often.

For the Spanish naturalization, it's the citizenship that counts, not the place of birth or the country of origin. Online you find some websites claiming that, but that doesn't correspond to the truth.

 

[luap]

Artículo 22.1 del Código Civil:​

“Para la concesión de la nacionalidad por residencia se requiere que ésta haya durado diez años. Serán suficientes cinco años para aquellos que hayan obtenido la condición de refugiado y dos años cuando se trate de nacionales de origen de países iberoamericanos, Andorra, Filipinas, Guinea Ecuatorial, o de personas sefardíes.”

English translation:​

“To obtain nationality by residence, a ten-year residence period is required. A five-year period will suffice for those who have obtained refugee status, and a two-year period in the case of nationals by origin of Ibero-American countries, Andorra, the Philippines, Equatorial Guinea, or Sephardic people.”

The key term here is "nacionales de origen" , nationals by origin , which excludes naturalised citizens of those countries.

Also regarding Paraguay, I know lawyers and I've spoken to service providers. They've warned me that many law firms will still take on clients, because they know they can rinse their clients for some thousands and then simply blame the government for refusing. Those I spoke to didn't blame the government for their bad service, they warned me to run clear of anybody promising this as it's completely undeliverable - anybody selling it just wants the money for application fees, residency etc.

Unless you're living in Paraguay for a long time, have a family, home, language, integrate into the culture etc, you aint getting a passport these days.

 

[Protect Your Wealth]

Artículo 22.1 del Código Civil:​

English translation:​

The key term here is "nacionales de origen" , nationals by origin , which excludes naturalised citizens of those countries.

Also regarding Paraguay, I know lawyers and I've spoken to service providers. They've warned me that many law firms will still take on clients, because they know they can rinse their clients for some thousands and then simply blame the government for refusing. Those I spoke to didn't blame the government for their bad service, they warned me to run clear of anybody promising this as it's completely undeliverable - anybody selling it just wants the money for application fees, residency etc.

Unless you're living in Paraguay for a long time, have a family, home, language, integrate into the culture etc, you aint getting a passport these days.

Again, it is not like those gentlemen said.

Also, I wasn't stating that those you specifically came in contact with blamed the government, I am saying that lawyers that can't get it done because of THEIR bad practice blame the government instead of being transparent with the client.

Some naturalization applications DO in fact get rejected, usually because there is some issue with the documents presented, as I previously stated.

That happens more often than not, but doesn't mean there aren't companies that operate correctly and can obtain that result.

Ofc it's not as easy as "pay and get the passport after 3 years", you have to sustain an exam and have to respect a few indications we explain to the client BEFORE he works with us.

Now, to comment on the Articulo 22.1 del Codigo Civil:

"cuando se trate de nacionales de origen de países iberoamericanos, Andorra, Filipinas, Guinea Ecuatorial o Portugal o de sefardíes"

The term "nacionales de origen de países iberoamericanos" indicates that the applicant needs to be a citizen of an ibero-american country, not born in that country, it would state otherwise "nacionales nacidos en países iberoamericanos".

You are misinterpreting the sense of the expression extracting it from the context and translating it in English inferring the same meaning. The word "origen" can deceive if you are not used to neo-Latin languages. It is translatable more correctly as "nationals coming from ibero-american countries" which doesn't implicate being born there.

 

[luap]

I speak Spanish, I'm not relying on Google Translate. What you were explaining would more be "ciudadano de origen" or "nacionalidad derivativa".

"Nacionales de origen" se refiere a ciudadanos de un país que adquieren su nacionalidad por el derecho de sangre o el lugar de nacimiento, en lugar de por otros medios como la naturalización o la opción por la nacionalidad.

Translated for other readers:
"Nationals of origin" refers to citizens of a country who acquire their nationality by right of blood or place of birth, rather than by other means such as naturalization or option for nationality.

You can also read the definition here:
https://diccionariousual.poder-judicial.go.cr/index.php/diccionario/país-de-origen

You are not getting the Spanish passport in 2 years as a latino if you naturalised in Latam. You need to be a native Spanish to qualify.


As for Pargaguay, anybody should, before paying an agent/lawyer/marketer etc - do their own research. They will find that unless you're living 10+ years, fully integrated, spending almost the entire year there, have a family, speak the language etc, you're not getting the passport. 10 years ago things were different, but not anymore. The approvals in the 3 years non-integrated cases stopped, but people still keep applying.

The reason the lawyers still sell this, despite knowing the client wont get it, is because they make their fees regardless of success. They will charge for the residency application, the yearly renewals plus all the addons, translations etc, then charge you for preparing the application for citizenship, the process, charge you for their time following up etc, only to then blame the government. At the end they've still made all their fees.

 

[Protect Your Wealth]

I speak Spanish, I'm not relying on Google Translate. What you were explaining would more be "ciudadano de origen" or "nacionalidad derivativa".

"Nacionales de origen" se refiere a ciudadanos de un país que adquieren su nacionalidad por el derecho de sangre o el lugar de nacimiento, en lugar de por otros medios como la naturalización o la opción por la nacionalidad.

Translated for other readers:
"Nationals of origin" refers to citizens of a country who acquire their nationality by right of blood or place of birth, rather than by other means such as naturalization or option for nationality.

You can also read the definition here:
https://diccionariousual.poder-judicial.go.cr/index.php/diccionario/país-de-origen

You are not getting the Spanish passport in 2 years as a latino if you naturalised in Latam. You need to be a native Spanish to qualify.


As for Pargaguay, anybody should, before paying an agent/lawyer/marketer etc - do their own research. They will find that unless you're living 10+ years, fully integrated, spending almost the entire year there, have a family, speak the language etc, you're not getting the passport. 10 years ago things were different, but not anymore. The approvals in the 3 years non-integrated cases stopped, but people still keep applying.

The reason the lawyers still sell this, despite knowing the client wont get it, is because they make their fees regardless of success. They will charge for the residency application, the yearly renewals plus all the addons, translations etc, then charge you for preparing the application for citizenship, the process, charge you for their time following up etc, only to then blame the government. At the end they've still made all their fees.

The dictionary you linked clearly states: Aquel del cual se es ciudadano o nacional.

Again your interpretation of the context is totally wrong, it wouldn't also make sense on a legislative perspective.

On a general note, while "Nacionales de origen" USUALLY (in a vacuum) refers to the nation you are born into and that grants you citizenship by the right of blood, in this case, because of the context, it simply remarks that you need to be a citizen of an ibero-american country to get the fast-track.

To add insult to injury, if it was like you said, it would create an intrinsic implicit discrimination based on the place you are born as well. I don't think I need to explain further.

Regarding Paraguay, of course you DON'T get the citizenship if you just pay and never ever pass a single day in Paraguay. There is a specific procedure to follow. Never stated it was a walk in the park.

Regarding clients' applications, keep that in mind: you can get that money maybe from 2 or 3 clients, your reputation is going to suffer on the long run and you are gonna run out of clients soon.

What interest would we have in selling something we can't (according to your opinion) deliver, when we have 35+ jurisdictions to offer and would simply send people somewhere else?

You can do your own research and you should, you will find however that people generally complain of rejections without knowing why an application is rejected by the government of Paraguay.