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Living 'Tax-Free' in Europe: Flying Under the Radar on Savings Alone?

#21
I assume you also have a shady SOF and you're starting from zero. If you show your crypto to banks/notaries etc. they want the documents that justify how you purchased your crypto in the first place.

The options are:

1) with shady SOF or with no SOF -> Move to a country where you can get the residence (with LV passport I assume it's not going to be a problem) and which has low corp tax and 0 dividends tax. Create a company and a fake business (IT, marketing and/or anything digital without any relations to crypto, with proper agreements etc. - be creative) to cashout your USDT. Find someone who you can invoice and who can offer a reasonable fee. Sometimes you can do USDT->corp. EUR at 0% or people even pay you 2-3% for your USDT. Then pay the small corp tax + don't be a scrudge and pay yourself a salary as well. During the year you can slowly cashout your 900k eur let's say at 10% and you'll have clean funds in your new bank account from your dividends payments to yourself.
2) with bulletproof SOF (proof of transfers of your EUR/USD to crypto exchanges, from your declared income btw, all your trade history and wallets) -> Find a low personal income tax country where you can get residence with crypto-friendly banks and cashout directly. This is the easiest option and then there won't be any problems with AML/KYC for your land/real estate purchases.
 
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#24
hlepic211 said:
I assume you also have a shady SOF and you're starting from zero. If you show your crypto to banks/notaries etc. they want the documents that justify how you purchased your crypto in the first place.

The options are:

1) with shady SOF or with no SOF -> Move to a country where you can get the residence (with LV passport I assume it's not going to be a problem) and which has low corp tax and 0 dividends tax. Create a company and a fake business (IT, marketing and/or anything digital without any relations to crypto, with proper agreements etc. - be creative) to cashout your USDT. Find someone who you can invoice and who can offer a reasonable fee. Sometimes you can do USDT->corp. EUR at 0% or people even pay you 2-3% for your USDT. Then pay the small corp tax + don't be a scrudge and pay yourself a salary as well. During the year you can slowly cashout your 900k eur let's say at 10% and you'll have clean funds in your new bank account from your dividends payments to yourself.
2) with bulletproof SOF (proof of transfers of your EUR/USD to crypto exchanges, from your declared income btw, all your trade history and wallets) -> Find a low personal income tax country where you can get residence with crypto-friendly banks and cashout directly. This is the easiest option and then there won't be any problems with AML/KYC for your land/real estate purchases.
Click to expand...
Note that engaging in the act of faking a business and issuing fake invoices is strictly illegal and can have severe legal consequences. Failing to adhere to KYC and AML regulations may face regulatory penalties. I recommend seeking relevant legal advice.
 
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#25
Where are the cryptos coming from? Mining? Speculation? I think you just need to move to a country where such action is tax free, cash out and then move where you want.

baltic7 said:
For what reason?
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Spain is know for weak protection of real estate, especially if uninhabited for over 24 hours. Hence my recommendation to go to an island as they have better infrastructure to protect your assets.
 
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#26
daniels27 said:
Where are the cryptos coming from? Mining? Speculation? I think you just need to move to a country where such action is tax free, cash out and then move where you want.


Spain is know for weak protection of real estate, especially if uninhabited for over 24 hours. Hence my recommendation to go to an island as they have better infrastructure to protect your assets.
Click to expand...

My God! Are you capable of giving such unprofessional advice and staying calm?

I understand that you do this with good intentions, but do some research before giving information to anyone.

It is not necessary to give an opinion on everything if you lack the knowledge and information.

What infrastructure to protect your assets do the Canary Islands have, different (or better) from mainland Spain? Surprise me.
 
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#28
Don said:
Note that engaging in the act of faking a business and issuing fake invoices is strictly illegal and can have severe legal consequences. Failing to adhere to KYC and AML regulations may face regulatory penalties. I recommend seeking relevant legal advice.
Click to expand...
Lol yeah and in the neighboring thread we duscuss sending photoshopped docs to banks.

You have to be creative and show them what they want to see or you get stuck with your millions in a non-KYCd crypto exchange account and the best you can buy is a lobster with your crypto card.

If you get caught with your dodgy invoices make sure you can show proof that you did the work that you described in the contract and the worst thing that can happen is that the bank will ask you to find banking services elsewhere. Which also can happen if you send a 1000 eur withdrawal from your trading profits from any crypto exchange to your account so it’s worth the risk if you’re sitting on millions.
 
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#29
hlepic211 said:
Lol yeah and in the neighboring thread we duscuss sending photoshopped docs to banks.

You have to be creative and show them what they want to see or you get stuck with your millions in a non-KYCd crypto exchange account and the best you can buy is a lobster with your crypto card.

If you get caught with your dodgy invoices make sure you can show proof that you did the work that you described in the contract and the worst thing that can happen is that the bank will ask you to find banking services elsewhere. Which also can happen if you send a 1000 eur withdrawal from your trading profits from any crypto exchange to your account so it’s worth the risk if you’re sitting on millions.
Click to expand...
There are so many ways to cash out legitimately (but requires one to actually do work in a legitimate business).
 
#30
jafo said:
This!
@Radko is (or was) dealing with this for a while. He shared his trials and tribulations on OCT vis-à-vis Spain and Okupas. One of his many posts on the subject: Passive income in EU (Spain et al)
Click to expand...

Okupas are still living rent free, utility free in my apartment.

The conservative party has introduced a new law to allow owners to kick Okupas with 24 hour notice, the Socialist/Communist government is expected to reject that new law.

Welcome to Spain, an EU country where anyone can come and live rent free, utilities free for years and years and face zero consequences.
 
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#31
Radko said:
Okupas are still living rent free, utility free in my apartment.

The conservative party has introduced a new law to allow owners to kick Okupas with 24 hour notice, the Socialist/Communist government is expected to reject that new law.

Welcome to Spain, an EU country where anyone can come and live rent free, utilities free for years and years and face zero consequences.
Click to expand...
This is absolutely mind-boggling to me. A total shock to the fantasy I had created in my brain to "justify" Spain and it's Jamon Serrano :oops:
 
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#32
baltic7 said:
My God! Are you capable of giving such unprofessional advice and staying calm?
Click to expand...
Come on. It is ok to come here when you are drunk. But please not that mean to me:

www.offshorecorptalk.com

Moroccan's Sahara : 0% CIT 0% Income Tax 0% VAT

I trust more in sending my money to a Nigerian prince than in putting a single euro into the territories occupied by Morocco. I see it, thread in 3 months on OCT: My bank account in Western Sahara has been frozen and the bank employees, instead of sending me a screenshot of the transfer...
www.offshorecorptalk.com www.offshorecorptalk.com

baltic7 said:
I understand that you do this with good intentions, but do some research before giving information to anyone.

It is not necessary to give an opinion on everything if you lack the knowledge and information.

What infrastructure to protect your assets do the Canary Islands have, different (or better) from mainland Spain? Surprise me.
Click to expand...
As far as I know, especially the Balearic Island's economy relies heavily on tourism and they do quite a lot to avoid bad publicity overseas. Also a lot of places are uninhabited for at least some parts of the year. As far as I have been told, the police is more attentive with a dense network and efficient alarm management if the house alarms.

Especially if you buy something for investment on a company you barely own but also only through a five-layer structure in three countries where two of them use nominee directors and when you actually never live there, you will be renting out for free for a very long time if something happens.
 
#33
daniels27 said:
Come on. It is ok to come here when you are drunk. But please not that mean to me:

www.offshorecorptalk.com

Moroccan's Sahara : 0% CIT 0% Income Tax 0% VAT

I trust more in sending my money to a Nigerian prince than in putting a single euro into the territories occupied by Morocco. I see it, thread in 3 months on OCT: My bank account in Western Sahara has been frozen and the bank employees, instead of sending me a screenshot of the transfer...
www.offshorecorptalk.com www.offshorecorptalk.com


As far as I know, especially the Balearic Island's economy relies heavily on tourism and they do quite a lot to avoid bad publicity overseas. Also a lot of places are uninhabited for at least some parts of the year. As far as I have been told, the police is more attentive with a dense network and efficient alarm management if the house alarms.

Especially if you buy something for investment on a company you barely own but also only through a five-layer structure in three countries where two of them use nominee directors and when you actually never live there, you will be renting out for free for a very long time if something happens.
Click to expand...

You have a bad source of information regarding Spain. And with small amounts of money as the OP proposes, in the Balearic Islands you will only buy land in areas outside the tourist areas and rural areas (not good for investment).

And the property laws are all the same both on the peninsula and on the islands, if what you are worried about are the "Okupas".

And finally, good luck using opaque multi-level structures in tax havens when buying property in Spain. You will waste time and money for nothing.
 
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#34
jafo said:
This is absolutely mind-boggling to me. A total shock to the fantasy I had created in my brain to "justify" Spain and it's Jamon Serrano :oops:
Click to expand...

Here is something crazy....

A friend of mine has 5 properties, he rents them, that's how he makes a living. He has Okupas in 3 of the properties, he called me a month ago to ask me if I could lend him some money to feed his family. He is paying all the utilities of the Okupas, and just like me, we are not allowed to cut the power or the water supply as that is considered a felony punishable with 2 years of jail.
My friend has spent 3000€ so far in lawyers fees, all 3 properties were occupied in 2019, and here we are in 2024, 5 years later and no end in sight.
My friend has a mortgage on 2 of the 3 properties that are occupied by Okupas.

There are now people making money by finding properties that can be occupied, and charging a fee to give you the address so you can go there and live a few years for free. They even advertise online "Properties for Okupas available starting at 500€ unfurnished, 1000€ fully furnished."

I know this is hard to comprehend, the Okupas in my property called the police because I cut the WiFi, luckily I am allowed to cut the WiFi, but not the power or the water supply.

One day the courthouse will notify them in advance that they are going to get evicted and they will have to go, before they go they will steal everything that's in the apartment, TV set, laundry machine, fridge, mattresses, probably even the copper wires of the electrical system so they can sell it. And the Okupas will go to another property and on and on they'll go until the law changes, who knows when that'll be.

That is the result of Socialism and Communism in Spain.
 
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#35
Radko said:
Here is something crazy....

A friend of mine has 5 properties, he rents them, that's how he makes a living. He has Okupas in 3 of the properties, he called me a month ago to ask me if I could lend him some money to feed his family. He is paying all the utilities of the Okupas, and just like me, we are not allowed to cut the power or the water supply as that is considered a felony punishable with 2 years of jail.
My friend has spent 3000€ so far in lawyers fees, all 3 properties were occupied in 2019, and here we are in 2024, 5 years later and no end in sight.
My friend has a mortgage on 2 of the 3 properties that are occupied by Okupas.

There are now people making money by finding properties that can be occupied, and charging a fee to give you the address so you can go there and live a few years for free. They even advertise online "Properties for Okupas available starting at 500€ unfurnished, 1000€ fully furnished."

I know this is hard to comprehend, the Okupas in my property called the police because I cut the WiFi, luckily I am allowed to cut the WiFi, but not the power or the water supply.

One day the courthouse will notify them in advance that they are going to get evicted and they will have to go, before they go they will steal everything that's in the apartment, TV set, laundry machine, fridge, mattresses, probably even the copper wires of the electrical system so they can sell it. And the Okupas will go to another property and on and on they'll go until the law changes, who knows when that'll be.

That is the result of Socialism and Communism in Spain.
Click to expand...

Your friend must be the unluckiest man in Spain to have 60% of his properties with "Okupas".

It is true that it is a serious legal problem in Spain, and that there are people who have been affected by it.

But realistically, in Spain there are 26 million homes, and just over 17,000 occupations.

The probability of someone occupying your home is extremely low. Furthermore, 80% of occupations occur in very specific areas of the country.

I think your friend must have bought the properties in "Las 3000 Viviendas" in Seville or some infected gypsy ghetto.

As I say, he must be either a very fanciful man or the unluckiest man in the world.

I have family and friends, with large amounts of rental properties (some with more than 100 properties) and they have never had a single case of occupancy.

And there are cheaper ways to get the "Okupas" out of a home than paying 3000 euros to lawyers.

As far as I am concerned, I absolutely agree that Spain is a country with shitty communism at all state levels.
 
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#36
baltic7 said:
And there are cheaper ways to get the "Okupas" out of a home than paying 3000 euros to lawyers.
Click to expand...

We are in the Costa del Sol (Málaga) which is full of Okupas, mainly from Eastern Europe, they love the warm climate, my property is not in a "gypsy ghetto", it's in a gated community.

Yes, my friend got very unlucky. I believe all three properties are occupied by members of the same family from Romania.

What are the cheaper ways to get the Okupas out of a home? You must go through the courthouse, anything else is illegal and you run the risk of committing a crime of cohertion.
 
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#37
Radko said:
We are in the Costa del Sol (Málaga) which is full of Okupas, mainly from Eastern Europe, they love the warm climate, my property is not in a "gypsy ghetto", it's in a gated community.

Yes, my friend got very unlucky. I believe all three properties are occupied by members of the same family from Romania.

What are the cheaper ways to get the Okupas out of a home? You must go through the courthouse, anything else is illegal and you run the risk of committing a crime of cohertion.
Click to expand...

Maybe his properties are in the same community and it was fully occupied by romanian gypsies. The very unlucky.

You can use this type of company: Desokupa con Daniel Esteve para recuperar vivienda ocupada

It's the most famous company for that in Spain, but there are more in the market, you can research them. If you need help to find more companies i can provide a list of them.

For future, install a home alarm with good company like Prosegur or Securitas, and they can't occupied you property.
 
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#38
baltic7 said:
You can use this type of company: Desokupa con Daniel Esteve para recuperar vivienda ocupada
Click to expand...

Yes, Desokupas are well known, my friend called them but they operate mainly in big cities like Barcelona. If they have to travel to another area of Spain they charge quite a bit.

All the Okupas in my friend's properties started paying rent, just like the Okupas in my property who paid rent for two months in advance, them they stopped paying, so in those cases having cameras with Prosegur or Securitas doesn't work. Okupas know people have cameras so they rent a property legally, sometimes they just rent a room, and after a couple of months they stop paying, they know what they are doing.

There are two types of Okupas, one type is the one that occupy a property that they find empty. Then there are others that rent for one or two months and then they stop paying, those are not counted in the numbers that are published as they are not officially considered "Okupas", just people that are not paying rent.
 
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#39
Radko said:
All the Okupas in my friend's properties started paying rent,
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Now THIS makes perfect sense! This is NOT limited to only Spain then. In most of Europe, the USA, and some places in Latin America this is a major problem.

In 1990, this happened to me in the USA. The renters paid the one-month deposit, the first month, and last month...and then NEVER paid again! It took me 6 months to get them out...and that is only because I was the "protegé" (favorite son-in-law; not what you may be thinking) of the then federal US Attorney for that district.... he sent his goons with badges and impunity to make them an offer they couldn't refuse!

They were gone the same day!
 
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#40
jafo said:
Now THIS makes perfect sense! This is NOT limited to only Spain then. In most of Europe, the USA, and some places in Latin America this is a major problem.

In 1990, this happened to me in the USA. The renters paid the one-month deposit, the first month, and last month...and then NEVER paid again! It took me 6 months to get them out...and that is only because I was the "protegé" (favorite son-in-law; not what you may be thinking) of the then federal US Attorney for that district.... he sent his goons with badges and impunity to make them an offer they couldn't refuse!

They were gone the same day!
Click to expand...

6 months is not that bad.

When I went to the police they said, "don't worry, they'll be gone in 3 months", I knew they were trying to be nice, there isn't such thing as 3 months of waiting for the courthouse to kick Okupas out, more like 3 years if not more.

It is a mayor problem, now a lot of people don't want to rent out their properties, so there is a shortage of apartments for rent and prices are through the roof, so the Communist government is imposing rent control in all mayor cities. It only gets worse and worse!
 
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