Andorra active residence minimum stay?

[Jerry1911]

Hi,

I'm currently looking at Andorran active residency—is there a minimum stay requirement considering I'd be employed full time in my Andorran SL company?

I'm referring to both the legal and tax residency.

Regarding tax residency, OECD states the following:
a) Natural persons staying more than 183 days in Andorran territory over the calendar year. In order to determine the permanence in Andorran territory, occasional absences are included, unless the taxpayer proves his residency for tax purposes in another countries.
b) Natural persons whose main base or centre of their activities or economic interests is situated, directly or indirectly, in Andorra.

So, would full time employment in a SL constitute "main centre of activities/economic interests"? What about legal residency?

Thanks

 

[Marzio]

I would say it only matter if your previous country will challenge your Andorra tax residency (if there’s DTA between those countries).

 

[Jerry1911]

I would say it only matter if your previous country will challenge your Andorra tax residency (if there’s DTA between those countries).

They won't, and there's no DTA.

However, it seems like the police checks how long has one been staying in country:

"As an active resident, you do need to live in the country full-time. Residency renewal applications often involve a visit from the police to ensure your apartment has furniture, food and, is actually lived in.

By definition, you’ll need to be in the country for a minimum of 183 days per year. As a result, you become a fiscal resident and are subject to the tax system."

https://jaserodley.com/residency-in-andorra/

 

[ferchina]

I don’t recommend you andorra, 6 months there is very boring, the police only go to your home when the renovation is close to be renovated again, and they ask to the neighbors too if they see you often

 

[Konstanz]

if you do passive residence and claim tax residency do the police also come to check?
I have been visiting Andorra couple times. Yes, 6 months of living there could be very boring, but you have to live at some place. Some people just love nature and calm!
However, for existing Andorra budget I would say it's not worth. Better just do Monaco..

 

[Jerry1911]

I don’t recommend you andorra, 6 months there is very boring, the police only go to your home when the renovation is close to be renovated again, and they ask to the neighbors too if they see you often

Thanks for the info, so it's true. Andorra is a no go for me then. I'll take a look at Cyprus, the 60 days requirement makes more sense compared to this.

Passive residency makes no sense for me either either.

 

[Marzio]

they ask to the neighbors too if they see you often

You could bribe the neighbors LOL

 

[Mda]

You could bribe the neighbors LOL

Beforehand, use timers to program both electricity & water consumption. It's manageable nowadays.

As passive residents since 2012, we've not received a police visit once. I was stopped for 30 seconds at the ground frontiers maybe three times without any close inspection besides ID check.

About active residents, there's a legend controls exist but personally, I've yet to meet somebody who have received this surveillance treatment. In expat groups, I've not heard of such complaints aloud.
If there seems to be exceptions with controls, all of these seem quite (if not very) rare in practice. However, I do know strangers living full time in Barcelona by taking advantage of the local tax status. They don't seem threatened yet.

The tax department don't even verify your filing of declaration at the individual level with backing documentation. Until 2015 and the introduction of taxation, accounting barely served any purpose at all. Commerces still enjoy cash handling. Cash deposis at banks are still relatively laxed. I remember one bank pushed me to leave it with 30k on me just to cross the street at the favor of another bank, back in the days before BPA
When I arrived in 2012, you'd even get rentals without any income check or even questions asked. Overall, the country still works a lot based on confidence due to the initial screening checks. In fact, when exiting Andorra, you're asked to collect debt clearance certificates at all the 7 parishes so you cannot really improvise a gangsta life ahead without the scope of punishment.

They're talking to lift the foreign investment procedure to speed things up regarding the attractivity of settling both a business and residency at the trade-off of establishing a dedicated office which should control more actively the shadowy enterprises without a real activity or not corresponding to the ones declared (especially licenced stuff or professions under quotas)
I'm waiting for this transition to really emerge. A few debated legal projects are often killed before birth and they also take down new laws with a lot of flexibility when it turns out to be flops in practice. Reactivity is an advantage when you're the size of a village.

Anyway, Andorra has never been a state of police so far.
As for being bored there, you should know better. It has what it takes to be fulfilling enough (one of the main site sponsor here is going to transition away from Dubai, verify his opinion soon ! )

 

[Konstanz]

Andorra is not the worst case option for residence for sure. But it's not cheap.
Most people on this forum try to do "residence" with $10k budget

 

[Mda]

Not quite, it's just that people don't know well the many ways to establish there.

My own budget will soon switch to be refunded my investments then paying 6.5k in total (of which
3k of corporate capital included, the rest in lawyer assistance) as employed by a family member already passive resident setting a patrimonial company then employing me. From there, I'll contribute for 275 € monthly to the local social security (fixed amount, limitless on revenues) based on the minimum wage, instead of the 475 € as autonom with a company, which represents a great value for retirement + health as a couple, or an extreme bargain if you have an extended family.
From there, I can add other activities as freelancing without an extra corporate, by setting just a commerce which won't entitle me to pay for additional CASS contributions on top of the ones of my employment. I can also pass all my investments like cryptos at the personal level aside, which gives me a 3000 € tax reference debasement per year. I also scratch 3200 € of tax per year on the first 40k of income compared to running a limited company. All my professional expenses can then happen with a personal account which open up the doors for the best banking inside (myandbank, being pal with some bankers of the country, I know which services are about to land in here, no more obsolete banking but Fintech enabled to come. In this case, the KYC with the bank is non existent. Account opening online in 5 minutes.) and the most out of the country options, almost free.
Aside, if you have the chance to be a french or spanish resident, they wouldn't even verify your CV, not requesting for 4 years of experience or diplomas in your domain.

This way is also valid for anyone able to find a job initially in their field of competency, even for a short term period, through the actual local job market (check some groups like the IT Jobs Andorra on Telegram) or through already established connections or relatives. Then once a resident, you can mount a local company by skipping completely the foreign investment procedure ...leading to zero capital investment in the country while bypassing the most of the administrative circuit burden (1 month realistically). You then make the transition and voila: Andorra made accessible (capital efficient) and easy that will last under ideal conditions in routine mode, nailing near the benefits of passive residents (only missing 90 days of non residency per annum, that is not enforced through monitoring anyway), possibly even better serviced (through the public instead of private coverage. Once studied lenghtily, it does make sense unless when an hardcore bachelor not spreading his/her risk on savings) & accessing other advantages.
Or you can just buy back an existing company or wait to inherit from the one employing you if anticipated through a clause (friends or family).

Solutions exist through adequate planning. Piercing in Andorra can use several angles of attack. The most extensive advice is not handled away to you on the net or from the outside. But on the ground, you can even find arrangement packages sorting it all out in creative ways based on your personal situation... if digging deeply enough with the right contacts.

 

[Konstanz]

Not quite, it's just that people don't know the many ways to establish there.

My own budget will soon switch to be refunded my investments then paying 6.5k in total (of which
3k of corporate capital included, the rest in lawyer assistance) as employed by a family member already passive resident setting a patrimonial company then employing me. From there, I'll contribute for 275 € monthly to the local social security (fixed amount, limitless on revenues) based on the minimum wage, instead of the 475 € as autonom with a company, which represents a great value for retirement + health as a couple, or an extreme bargain if you have an extended family.
From there, I can add other activities as freelancing without an extra corporate, by setting just a commerce which won't entitle me to pay for additional CASS contributions on top of the ones of my employment. I can also pass all my investments like cryptos at the personal level aside, which gives me a 3000 € tax reference debasement per year. I also scratch 3200 € of tax per year on the first 40k of income compared to running a limited company. All my professional expenses can then happen with a personal account which open up the doors for the best banking inside (myandbank, being pal with some bankers of the country, I know which services are about to land in here, no more obsolete banking but Fintech enabled to come. In this case, the KYC with the bank is non existent. Account opening online in 5 minutes.) and the most out of the country options, almost free.
Aside, if you have the chance to be a french or spanish resident, they wouldn't even verify your CV, not requesting for 4 years of experience or diplomas in your domain.

This way is also valid for anyone able to find a job initially in their field of competency, even for a short term period, through the actual local job market (check some groups like the IT Jobs Andorra on Telegram) or through already established connections or relatives. Then once a resident, you can mount a local company by skipping completely the foreign investment procedure ...leading to zero capital investment in the country while bypassing the most of the administrative circuit burden (1 month realistically). You then make the transition and voila: Andorra made accessible (capital efficient) and easy that will last under ideal conditions in routine mode, nailing near the benefits of passive residents (only missing 90 days of non residency per annum, that is not enforced through monitoring anyway), possibly even better serviced (through the public instead of private coverage. Once studied lenghtily, it does make sense unless when an hardcore bachelor not spreading his/her risk on savings) & accessing other advantages.
Or you can just buy back an existing company or wait to inherit from the one employing if planned through a clause (friends or family).

No problems but solutions through adequate planning. Piercing in Andorra can use several angles of attack. The most extensive advice is not handled away to you on the net or from the outside. But on the ground, you can even find arrangement packages sorting it all out in creative ways based on your personal situation... if digging deeply enough with the right contacts.

You know a lot about Andorra.
Can you tell more about 10% income tax? Does in reality people pay this tax?
If you are passive resident you still can get tax residence certificate without paying 10% right?

 

[Mda]

Yes, law abiding residents pay this amount of tax when they're not hiding away their offshore incomes through out of reach vehicles & banking that is kept outside of the country (it has occured quite commonly too but keep it a secret)

That said, you really won't regularly find a better deal within Europe that allows you to scale with confidence after you compensate for all deductible expenses and use all tips at disposal
No micro companies shitnitz with ceilings (Romania, Lithuania), best bang for your bucka (Bulgaria), no unstable context of doom (like what's going on with the crypto bros in Portugal. Actually, a proper regulation in this domain was deployed this year).

Remember, you can also legally be at 2% CIT when it comes to software, brands, IP rights.
Default royaltees = 5%
Zero personal income tax up to 40k /yr as long as under just a civil union registered locally (plus foreign marriage of course)
Capital gains on stocks at 0% (when shareholding less than 25% or holding 10+ years). Capital gains on real estate properites degressive until free over an extended time.
LImitless to any party free donations & successions unlike Portugal, handled efficiently. I've already given away a car as a gift in under 15 minutes of queue & paperwork at the government.
Clearer reputation than say Gibraltar (on the FAFT list of i creased moniroting) when it comes to approach financial institutions abroad, unless you're a very big fish of interest.
You can get an intra-community VAT number from the EU One Stop Shop despite the particular status of Andorra as a whole (outside of the EEA zone & EU)
The list of advantages add up all in all.

Those who seek concrete advice for free can PM me. I've been maintaining a few helpful files destinated at both aspirant and established expats in Andorra. I'll deploy a proper Telegram group to promote the country soon, with essentially residents of all horizons of entrepreneurships (or not, including wankers too)

 

[Konstanz]

Yes, law abiding residents pay this amount of tax when they're not hiding away their offshore incomes through out of reach vehicles & banking that is kept outside of the country (it has occured quite commonly too but keep it a secret)

That said, you really won't regularly find a better deal within Europe that allows you to scale with confidence after you compensate for all deductible expenses and use all tips at disposal
No micro companies shitnitz with ceilings (Romania, Lithuania), best bang for your bucka (Bulgaria), no unstable context of doom (like what's going on with the crypto bros in Portugal. Actually, a proper regulation in this domain was deployed this year).

Remember, you can also legally be at 2% CIT when it comes to software, brands, IP rights.
Default royaltees = 5%
Zero personal income tax up to 40k /yr as long as under just a civil union registered locally (plus foreign marriage of course)
Capital gains on stocks at 0% (when shareholding less than 25% or holding 10+ years). Capital gains on real estate properites degressive until free over an extended time.
LImitless to any party free donations & successions unlike Portugal, handled efficiently. I've already given away a car as a gift in under 15 minutes of queue & paperwork at the government.
Clearer reputation than say Gibraltar (on the FAFT list of i creased moniroting) when it comes to approach financial institutions abroad, unless you're a very big fish of interest.
You can get an intra-community VAT number from the EU One Stop Shop despite the particular status of Andorra as a whole (outside of the EEA zone & EU)
The list of advantages add up all in all.

Those who seek concrete advice for free can PM me. I've been maintaining a few helpful files destinated at both aspirant and established expats in Andorra. I'll deploy a proper Telegram group to promote the country soon, with essentially residents of all horizons of entrepreneurships (or not, including wankers too)

Yes, but some people might say why you need to go all through this in Andorra, than you can go simple with UAE or Caribbean

 

[Mda]

UAE at 9% except for FRZ now, with mandatory bi-annual visit to secure it or islands will never be a thing that appeal to a large based crowd.

After I launched a mini survey amongst expats, my bad, it does seem police controls do occur once and for all alongside active residents, just not automatically, especially all the more the less you leave behind residency clues. I.e. apparently, those with children schooled have been left in peace.

 

[Konstanz]

UAE at 9% except for FRZ now, with mandatory bi-annual visit to secure it or islands will never be a thing that appeal to a large based crowd.

After I launched a mini survey amongst expats, my bad, it does seem police controls do occur once and for all alongside active residents, just not automatically, especially all the more the less you leave behind residency clues. I.e. apparently, those with children schooled have been left in peace.

You cannot really claim real residence in a place were you don't visit a single day.
Probably it's you visit, live or not

 

[Nomader]

Yes, law abiding residents pay this amount of tax when they're not hiding away their offshore incomes through out of reach vehicles & banking that is kept outside of the country (it has occured quite commonly too but keep it a secret)

That said, you really won't regularly find a better deal within Europe that allows you to scale with confidence after you compensate for all deductible expenses and use all tips at disposal
No micro companies shitnitz with ceilings (Romania, Lithuania), best bang for your bucka (Bulgaria), no unstable context of doom (like what's going on with the crypto bros in Portugal. Actually, a proper regulation in this domain was deployed this year).

Remember, you can also legally be at 2% CIT when it comes to software, brands, IP rights.
Default royaltees = 5%
Zero personal income tax up to 40k /yr as long as under just a civil union registered locally (plus foreign marriage of course)
Capital gains on stocks at 0% (when shareholding less than 25% or holding 10+ years). Capital gains on real estate properites degressive until free over an extended time.
LImitless to any party free donations & successions unlike Portugal, handled efficiently. I've already given away a car as a gift in under 15 minutes of queue & paperwork at the government.
Clearer reputation than say Gibraltar (on the FAFT list of i creased moniroting) when it comes to approach financial institutions abroad, unless you're a very big fish of interest.
You can get an intra-community VAT number from the EU One Stop Shop despite the particular status of Andorra as a whole (outside of the EEA zone & EU)
The list of advantages add up all in all.

Those who seek concrete advice for free can PM me. I've been maintaining a few helpful files destinated at both aspirant and established expats in Andorra. I'll deploy a proper Telegram group to promote the country soon, with essentially residents of all horizons of entrepreneurships (or not, including wankers too)

Can you PM me?

 

[TomSheldon]

UAE at 9% except for FRZ now, with mandatory bi-annual visit to secure it or islands will never be a thing that appeal to a large based crowd.

After I launched a mini survey amongst expats, my bad, it does seem police controls do occur once and for all alongside active residents, just not automatically, especially all the more the less you leave behind residency clues. I.e. apparently, those with children schooled have been left in peace.

In terms of the bonds, what is the situation like now? And once you have a company in Andorra, what are the running expenses? Can I just submit an application, pay the fees etc. rent a place and start living from there? My income is about 80-120K depending on how much vacation I take.

And in terms of the social security, could you describe in more detail how you got it down to only 225? Does a young person pay 450 in health insurance for real?