Banking for crypto trading

[xkjqehml]

Does anyone know a good offshore bank that'll accept customers who do crypto trading, i.e. trading their own funds and need a bank account to hold their own fiat funds. Also what would be a good offshore jurisdiction to incorporate a company for that purpose?

 

[JohnLocke]

You want to check with Fidor Bank personal account, pretty easy to work with. Also check the banks in the Resource section https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/resources/ for mentor group, there are a few crypto friendly banks there.

 

[xkjqehml]

Thanks I will check those resources out. I should have been more clear, I want to trade with a corporate account. But it's also helpful to know which bank will work with this particular usecase before the pain of applying

 

[KJK]

You want to check with Fidor Bank personal account, pretty easy to work with. Also check the banks in the Resource section https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/resources/ for mentor group, there are a few crypto friendly banks there.

No you definitely DO NOT want to check Fidor. That used to be a good bank maybe 4-5 years ago.
Today they have turned into a scam that started blocking people accounts, charging new extra fees, asking funny requirements (you must make 10 active transfers per month to have active account) and - last but not least - their customer support basically doesn't exist.

If you try to call them, prepare to be on hold for 1-2 hours and then the support is in German only so at least you need to know some basic German. If you email them, prepare that your email will get an answer in 3-4 weeks, yes that is not a typo, the standard reply time to any your message is 21-28 days and that is even what they will officially tell you. By the way their support works in a way that you write them in English and they will reply in German, they understand you but they are just so arrogant that they will reply in German because they want.

You will have an account blocked, no access to funds, no access to statements and non-existent customer support. They went to total s**t and crap late last year, now they are just waiting to probably go bankrupt with no direction, no management and a non-working business.

They also got rid of their UK branch which was a total failure, now they just wait until the main German branch is gone.

Don't believe me?

Fidor Bank AG wird auf Trustpilot mit 2 von 5 als „Mangelhaft“ bewertet

Finden Sie, dass der TrustScore von Fidor Bank AG passt? Berichten Sie von Ihren Erfahrungen und lesen Sie die Bewertungen von 2.906 Kunden.

de.trustpilot.com

(the German reviews are most relevant and recent - don't rely on what was written about Fidor even 6 months ago, they are a total crapshit now)

Fidor Bank AG is rated "Poor" with 2 / 5 on Trustpilot

Do you agree with Fidor Bank AG's TrustScore? Voice your opinion today and hear what 2,906 customers have already said.

www.trustpilot.com

(English reviews also very bad, notice how they changed in 2019)

 

[JohnLocke]

Today they have turned into a scam that started blocking people accounts, charging new extra fees, asking funny requirements (you must make 10 active transfers per month to have active account) and - last but not least - their customer support basically doesn't exist.

Is this something you just read and repost or do you have any experience with it?

I have not had a single problem with the account with them so far. So if you think it is a bad bank, start your post personally I would not recommend it or similar. You generalize and reffer to medias which you don't have any personal knowledge about but only read about.


Oh and while I'm on it. Trustpilot reviews are worth as much as the statements posted there, nothing. You can buy mass TrustPilot posting for less then a dollar per post, do you find it trustworthy? You can post anything you want on TrustPilot, no one is going to verify the information at all, is that really TrustWorthy?

 

[xkjqehml]

Does anyone has concrete experience with opening, or helping a client open an offshore entity and a bank that was happy to take their business for crypto trading their own account?

 

[Spinat]

You want to check your options using an exchange and a bank account i.e. kraken -> AdvCash, TransferWise or other Crypto friendly EMI -> Bank account It's not going to be easy to find a jurisdiction considered offshore and that will work like this.

What are your requirements to go offshore, goals etc?

 

[Sols]

Forget about offshore bank when it comes to crypto. You need banks that have direct access to currencies and don't rely on other, commercial banks for correspondent accounts. That's what's been the slow death of offshore bankings.

You're left with EMIs unless you're a big, clean, and attractive to qualify with one of the handful of traditional banks that, sometimes, take crypto businesses.

 

[xkjqehml]

I think think EMIs will work for this use case, trade sizes are too big. Needs to be a proper corporate bank account. Offshore corporation requirement is just a jurisdiction that isn't going to cause a huge tax or accounting burden. As you are probably aware some countries want to take each trade as a separate event, cant just net daily trades for example.

 

[xkjqehml]

Forget about offshore bank when it comes to crypto. You need banks that have direct access to currencies and don't rely on other, commercial banks for correspondent accounts. That's what's been the slow death of offshore bankings.

You're left with EMIs unless you're a big, clean, and attractive to qualify with one of the handful of traditional banks that, sometimes, take crypto businesses.

That cant be the case. There are plenty of companies trading significant volumes with exchanges and have fiat settlement to their bank accounts. It's 2020 now, I dont believe there arent banks that will take own companies trading their own funds. I can understand banking being hard for crypto businesses, but it cant be that hard for traders in 2020.

 

[KJK]

Is this something you just read and repost or do you have any experience with it?

I have not had a single problem with the account with them so far. So if you think it is a bad bank, start your post personally I would not recommend it or similar. You generalize and reffer to medias which you don't have any personal knowledge about but only read about.


Oh and while I'm on it. Trustpilot reviews are worth as much as the statements posted there, nothing. You can buy mass TrustPilot posting for less then a dollar per post, do you find it trustworthy? You can post anything you want on TrustPilot, no one is going to verify the information at all, is that really TrustWorthy?

Yes, my account was closed this year, no reason provided, it now takes weeks to get any reply from them and I still haven't gotten my money back. Exactly the same situation happened to my friend (who is German).

The reviews on Trustpilot, especially German version - first link - are not fake, they are real though I admit many companies have fake reviews on Trustpilot. I already wrote that twice and will repeat it the third time, Fidorbank WAS a good bank, now it is NOT A GOOD BANK, it is actually terrible bank that will block accounts, refuse to communicate and charge new fees.

Maybe I'd defend the company several years ago when I opened my account, there was a huge change which you probably didn't even notice (last half of the year) - UK branch closed, wide account shutdowns, new fees and terrible non-existent customer support. I imagine they closed accounts to at least a quarter if not half of their clients recently. They are in deep trouble.

 

[KJK]

As this is a topic regarding "banking for crypto trading", there's one more remark/finding I'd like to add.

You probably know Kraken used Fidor for a long time, in the past few months (not sure when exactly) instead they added a new bank which they show as their primary bank when you want to deposit. They still have the Fidor relationship but what does that say? Fidor is in trouble and Kraken could've noticed that.

(by the way the new bank of Kraken is crypto-friendly but they want mostly higher NW people)

 

[AlbanyJames]

(by the way the new bank of Kraken is crypto-friendly but they want mostly higher NW people)

Care to share?

 

[Educate]

I trust KJK. If Truspilot has bad reviews and reviews can be bought like Admit says then it is EVEN WORSE, because it means despite ability to buy good reviews Fidor bank still manages to amass s**t ones.

 

[FinTech Avenger]

I'd look at the Chanel Islands or Isle of Man for incorporation of the company and banking can be arranged with Liectenshtein-based bank. PM me if you would be interested

 

[Lamb75]

It's my first post, so apologizes if I should have introduced myself before this.

After reading this thread, as I am a client of Fidor, I rushed to look at Trustpilot in german (using Google translate as I don't understand german).

More than half of complaints are about new fees introduced last september : 5 Euros/month if the debit card is not used 10 times (actually it may be wrong, a bank transfer from Fidor could also count in the 10 operations, as I use the card a lot I did not pay attention). Then some of the complaints concern business accounts. Many mention poor customer service which always require email.

About customer service in English I can just say that it works, but you can't have emergency situations with this bank as it can take up to a week.

I didn't use Fidor to buy crypto on Kraken, or to sell and transfer the fiat to my Fidor account for more than 10 months, so I can't comment on this, but it never comes in the critics : Fidor is both a crypto-friendly bank (although the actual CEO would not say as the CEO 2 year ago that he is bullish in cryptos) and a poor German people friendly bank : more possibility to borrow small amounts of money than in other German banks. Some "poors" left because of the "activity fee" and the tightening of credit.

This bank could go under because of the current crisis. Future new owner could decide to stop being crypto-friendly. German central bank could ask Fidor to close accounts of non-residents who do cryptos. A lot of things could happen.

In my situation I am confident Fidor would send me back my money if it would close my account, and my crypto is on hard wallets. So I stay with Fidor. I understand though for some of us anticipation and search for alternatives could have to start now.

 

[Willblack]

For personal banking? It depends on volume since and if we're talking <100k, EMI's are your best option but you can still get an account at Swissquote. If we're talking larger numbers you can try Bank Frick for example.

Also, on the Fidor subject - I still have an account with them which at some point a couple of years ago was my main account for crypto trading and I was very happy with it.

HOWEVER, in early 2019 my Fidor account, as well as my Kraken account, got suspended for absolutely no reason and without warning.
What happened was:
Kraken emailed me that I had 24 hours to withdraw all funds to my linked bank account (which was ironically Fidor) without providing ANY explanation and the moment I did so, my Fidor account was suspended as well. I'll spare you the details but on day 7 of NO REPLY from Fidor I had my lawyer (who fortunately speaks fluid German) contact them and explain that legal action will be taken if they continue to not provide an explanation. Kraken in the meantime emailed me that "They're sorry but they are terminating all present and future business relationship with me"....with no explanation provided. Fidor replied, and asked for a ton of KYC documents (which I'd already provided numerous times) and continued to ignore my emails (and my lawyer's) for about a week AFTER I provided all documents as requested at which point we contacted BaFin and asked them to look into it, explaining that I have a right to at least know what I'm being investigated for if that's even the case. BaFin (surprisingly) provided me with clarity which when putting 2 and 2 together also explained why Kraken decided to do what they did. There was an ongoing money-laundering investigation BY BaFin INTO Fidor which according to the nice lady at BaFin was probably a reason for them to suspend all accounts deemed high-risk and KYC-rape them into oblivion in order to look as if they're compliant with BaFin. They did eventually (after about 20 days) unblock my account, however, this IMO, isn't worth the hassle for anybody since I'd done nothing wrong or even suspicious. All I did was sent money to that account by another personal account and trade crypto on Kraken and Coinbase.

So, TLDR:

I'd stay away from Fidor, since after all this they've also:
- Added a 5 EUR/mo fee.
- Lost my card shipment thrice (yes, 3 f*cking times).
- Always take a week or longer to reply to support inquiries and, as somebody else pointed out, they always do so in German which can get annoying.
- Closed their UK branch.

All of these are huge red flags and I would no longer recommend that bank to anybody.

 

[slurrr]

I'd look at the Chanel Islands or Isle of Man for incorporation of the company and banking can be arranged with Liectenshtein-based bank. PM me if you would be interested

Looking to do just this thing. Unfortunately I can't PM you for some reason. Let me know how to converse with you about this.

 

[iknowwhatyoudid]

Also, on the Fidor subject - I still have an account with them which at some point a couple of years ago was my main account for crypto trading and I was very happy with it.

What do you use now as your main account for crypto trading? If you don't mind me asking. Thanks.

 

[sinos]

Care to share?

Bank Frick new bank for Kraken. They ask for annual 10 mil turnover for crypto account opening.