Best way to bank money from continuous crypto income

[mephisto]

Hi,
This is my first post in this forum and I created this account with the intention of asking questions in incorp and banking accounts. I was surprised to see a cryto section and I will try my chances here first.

There is a very similar question like this, but I did not want to bomb his thread with my details, hence the new thread.

I got a website that makes around 5K$ to 15K$ every month, and up until this moment I kept the money in fiat in bitfinex (interest rates even for fiat on bitfinex is delicious)

Last month - just to try it - I withdrew about 12500 USD to my HSBC account in UK, swift transfer went through in 4 days without any problems.

So my plan is to have an offshore bank account which provides a debit card (not necessarily anonymous debit card) and do my spending of off that card. I will probably need two accounts one in USD to receive the money, and one in GBP for the debit card.

I don't have a company at the moment in any jurisdiction/country. I hold dual citizenship British and Turkish. I am open to all suggestions.

Personal verification on bitfinex is fairly straight forward (proof of address, passport, bank statement etc) corporate account on the other hand being a newbie, some of these documents I have never heard in my life

1. Certificate of Incorporation and Business Registration
2. Memorandum and Articles of Association (which evidence the powers that regulate and bind the company)
3. Ownership and Control Structure (please provide chart indicating percentage holdings)
4. Company Bank Statement (from which first wire transaction will occur)
5. Directors Minutes to Open Account
6. Authorized Signature List
7. Current Officer Register List
8. Current Director Register List
9. Names of Ultimate Beneficiary(s)
10.Shareholder List
11.Proof of Registered Office and Business Address (if different from registered office) 12.Certificate of Incumbency

Also:

Each director, shareholder (owning 20% or more in the company), control officer/person, authorized signatory and ultimate beneficiary is required to provide proof identity. Documents required include;

1. Two (2) forms of valid picture identification such as passport (bio pages), national ID card, driving license, or other forms of government-issued identification.
2. Proof of address no older than three months is required. Utility bill, service bill, government tax statement or statement from a licensed company (bank, credit card, insurance).
3. Selfie photo (holding a form of photo ID and holding a note stating: “To Bitfinex” and listing the current date with signature)

 

[Min Park]

Why you want to get company for ?

 

[mephisto]

I want to withdraw the money to a "non-UK" account. That is technically all I want. In theory if I had an account in country X that printed my address on a statement, and I was able to prove that address than I could use this. But afaik this is not possible with a personal account, please do correct me if i am wrong.

These two are for individual verification for example.

1. Bank Statement: clearly highlighting your name as the account holder
2. Proof of Address: a statement not older than 3 months from a utility, service company, licensed corporation or government authority clearly indicating your name and residential address.

 

[Min Park]

Last time i was in bangkok, i just did it.
i enter the bank, tell them a nice story, show them apartment rent agreement (download online) and open an account.
deposit 1000usd, go 2 days later and ask print bank statement and that all. I got bank statement with bangkok address.

When you go in personal to bank, with good story, looking good and with cash they will open you an account and give you ATM card in 1h.
There is county that harder to open accounts and there less but all of them are harder when you try company accounts.

 

[David97255]

I really not sure that I understand your problem, but you can open a personal account at an Emi you will get European iban and a debit card to cash out at ATM.
Look in the forum the thread about Emi's

 

[mephisto]

I really not sure that I understand your problem, but you can open a personal account at an Emi you will get European iban and a debit card to cash out at ATM.
Look in the forum the thread about Emi's

I guess I wrote too much my problem got lost in details.
EMI's don't help, they don't provide a personal IBAN that I can use in a non-domestic transaction. I have premium revolut for example, extremely happy with everything they offer. When I go to my accounts USD/EUR/GBP I have my own IBAN for the account. However on the same screen there are two tabs "local" and "swift" the moment I choose swift, I see a shared IBAN with beneficiary named REVOLUT LTD etc. And the problem is the exchange won't wire money to an account like this.

If I try to summarise my problem.
I need an offshore account (offshore as in outside UK in this context)

It can be a personal account, as long as

• account belongs to me, the beneficiary is myself
• it shows my address, an address I can provide proof that it actually is my address with a "Utility bill, service bill, government tax statement or statement from a licensed company"

BUT

On the other hand, I have an online business that "prints money" (btw it is not even remotely illegal, just a technology that has risen in the last 24 months and its almost impossible to explain such a thing in UK to taxman, anything they don't understand they are pointing you to pay income tax...)

• has virtually no expense (costs are running 300-400USD/month)
• 100% online with no customers to bill, so I will have difficulty accounting
• Again it is 100% online, cannot be limited to any geographical boundary
• The income is in a crypto currency, so to go into the books of any bank or EMI, it goes from my wallet -> exchange -> fiat -> bank account

so I want to declare this income 10000 USD - 400USD = 9600USD profit and pay tax on it(not income tax!), in a friendly jurisdiction.

Without documenting this income from online business, most financial institutions will raise a flag about this constant money flow. This is my assumption though, Do you think 10K/month is too small to raise flags?

Please point me out to unclear parts, I am aware I digress a lot, because I am tech guy, money and financing is not really my strength

 

[David97255]

So you use Transferwise, you will get dedicated Iban in different currency .
It will be your own Iban un euro, GBP, etc.
If you open a personal account you will get a debit card.
And mate think out the box, a bank statement can show what you want

 

[JohnLocke]

100% online with no customers to bill, so I will have difficulty accounting

You have to speak with a tax consultant to help you with this part. If you think you can do this at your own you will be surprised that this is not possible without a lot of troubles and headache.

The income is in a crypto currency, so to go into the books of any bank or EMI, it goes from my wallet -> exchange -> fiat -> bank account

as long as the bank can't see where the money comes or at least it comes from crypto you may be fine. I have seen examples of this done many times before where the bank don't see it.

Without documenting this income from online business, most financial institutions will raise a flag about this constant money flow. This is my assumption though, Do you think 10K/month is too small to raise flags?

nothing is to small or to big, you simply need to tell the bank from the beginning what flow you expect AND if you say 10K is the real number then you say to the bank 20K to avoid questions.

Why do you need to make SWIFT transfer, can't you keep it to IBAN ?

 

[David97255]

LWithout documenting this income from online business, most financial institutions will raise a flag about this constant money flow. This is my assumption though, Do you think 10K/month is too small to raise flags?

Now days every amount can raise a flag unfortunately. You must be ready to provide supporting documents to each transactions

 

[mephisto]

Why do you need to make SWIFT transfer, can't you keep it to IBAN ?

The exchange demands it to be a SWIFT transfer. When I land on a withdrawal page, my full name and the address (that was proven during verification) is auto filled, and has to match the details I provide for the account.

Now days every amount can raise a flag unfortunately. You must be ready to provide supporting documents to each transactions

This worries me a lot. In theory I can show the trace, "I got X commission from Coin1 -> sent X Coin1 to Bitfinex -> sold X Coin1 for 5$ -> and here is 5$" but if you think about it, they will have to take my word for it, so I can technically prove any amount in the same way.

 

[JohnLocke]

This worries me a lot. In theory I can show the trace, "I got X commission from Coin1 -> sent X Coin1 to Bitfinex -> sold X Coin1 for 5$ -> and here is 5$" but if you think about it, they will have to take my word for it, so I can technically prove any amount in the same way.

That's why you need a professional accountant to help you. It may even require a lawyer. Anyway, if you show a bank that you are involved in crypto you are back to your starting point since most banks will reject your application if you tell them so.

One possible solution may be to do some invoicing to another company to receive the money, in that way when you have to show the bank where the money comes from you can show them this 3rd party company and the invoices belonging. It's also seen a few times before.

 

[Min Park]

@mephisto funny i have the opposite problem. I have money coming from PayPal and want to make it Crypto.
For that i set Cyprus company to draw money from PayPal to bank account of company.
Then from company to exchange to get BTC.

 

[mephisto]

That's why you need a professional accountant to help you. It may even require a lawyer. Anyway, if you show a bank that you are involved in crypto you are back to your starting point since most banks will reject your application if you tell them so.

I have failed to get that help on the highstreet unfortunately, they are clueless for any unorthodox business solution. so I am reading forums like this and reddit trying to find my way.

mephisto funny i have the opposite problem. I have money coming from PayPal and want to make it Crypto.
For that i set Cyprus company to draw money from PayPal to bank account of company.
Then from company to exchange to get BTC.

If you can provide the two documents I have been talking about to bitfinex, 1- your paypal account points to your address 2- you have a proof of your address (not an online rent agreement, a real document) you can wire USD/GBP/EUR to bitfinex directly and buy your bitcoin

 

[mephisto]

@Admin is there a forum section here dedicated to service providers like this? or can you suggest me a few?

 

[Min Park]

@mephisto We can't wire from PayPal account to exchange account.
From PayPal it only go to account on you name/company.
Regarding this documents you need it is simple to provide. Send me you email i send u website for that.

 

[Stefano3323]

Out of my mind I see two options:

Setting up an offshore company (maybe IBC in Seychelles) and open a transwerwise account via the company, at that point sell the BTC to localbitcoin.com, TW doesn't give you a named bank account, and receive them directly to your bank account.

Other option, open a personal account via goldmoney, send the crypto there and convert them in fiat to upload to your prepaidcard.

In either case you need to declare the profit already made both from the business and the appreciation of the cryptos/interest. But I'm not a professional accountant, so not sure I'm 100% correct on this.

Hope it helps!

 

[JohnLocke]

@mephisto funny i have the opposite problem. I have money coming from PayPal and want to make it Crypto.
For that i set Cyprus company to draw money from PayPal to bank account of company.
Then from company to exchange to get BTC.

What exchange do you use to exchange FIAT from your bank account to crypto / btc ?

@Admin is there a forum section here dedicated to service providers like this? or can you suggest me a few?

So far only option is to look at the Mentor Group users and their signatures, there are service providers here which have their services in the signature space. Some of them have aloso posted in the Mentor Group forums while they had an account upgrade so you can find reliable providers there too. Other than this so far NO there are no forums where we will alow people advertise their service like this, it is under consideration.

 

[Min Park]

Right now i have the company and waiting to get bank account.
I will also try getting EMI (Sepaga Cyprus).
Then i will open exchange account on company are Kraken or Bitfinx.

 

[mephisto]

By the way, I was recently talking to a law firm(I am not sure if i am allowed to name them here) who created a plan and in the end the offer is,
they will create a panama anonymous corporation with nominee directors plus a bank account for USD1700 and they ask for additional USD500 for a second account creation. The accounts require an initial deposit of USD500 or equivalent.

All these costs are fine for me, but I got suspicious because the list of banks they offer includes banks like UBS, HSBC and Santander. Also I remember reading on somewhere else that it is no longer possible to open bank accounts for non-residents (after FATCA) anyone has up to date knowledge about this? or does this account creation problem only exists for US citizens?

Regarding this documents you need it is simple to provide. Send me you email i send u website for that.

My apologies but we might be on a different frequency, I am trying to be tax efficient but I have no intention of forging documents on an online website. I have a completely legal business that I am unable to register, simply because of ancient laws and bias against crypto-currency.

 

[OTR365]

I read the thread and I still can't understand the issue here. There's no need for companies, separate payment services or other elaborate structures.

I want to withdraw the money to a "non-UK" account. That is technically all I want.
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I have an account at Bitfinex. The first time I withdrew money, they wanted the bank information and proof of address, which I provided. Afterwards, I added another account in a different country, and I only needed to provide info about that new account. I have successfully transferred money to this account. You are allowed to have accounts in a country where you don't live. Just add your offshore account, and provide them details about it. Withdraw money, and be happy ever after.