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Bitcoin TAX "optimalization" via setting up a company in an offshore tax haven...?

Horeskal

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Hello

I have zero experience with (offshore) tax havens. I am, live and have tax domicile in an European country. My question is - is there a way to optimize (=pay less or ideally no tax) on ones (selling) of bitcoin/crypto...? The crypto would be legally obtained, one can prove its origin etc. Theres nothing illegal about the crypto or source of funds etc. One just wants to pay no tax.

Traditionally tax havens would probably NOT be a good way how to optimize ones selling of crypto i assume, mainly because you would want to use the profits in a way that benefits you - buy a property in your country for example etc. which may (and would) catch the eye and attention of local tax man, who would ask you where did you get the money...

A) So in this sense - selling bitcoin (using a company in a tax haven through which you would sell it) and wanting to use the profits to buy "real things" is NOT a good idea at all, correct? (Because the authorities will see the "real things" and ask you where did you get the funds to buy them..)

B) But what if one wants just to re-invest the profits back into bitcoin at a lower price? E.g. You sell your bitcoin at, i dont know, 100 000 usd, then you obtain fiat money (USD, EUR whatever) and you need it to just to "sit" somewhere, in some safe bank account, until BTC price falls to 50 000 USD (lets say) in 6-12 months. And then you buy back the bitcoin at a lower price... You just want to re-invest the profits from BTC sale, you dont want to buy ANYTHING with it at all... And of course you dont want to really pay any tax on it (why would you if you wanna just re-invest it)

In this case, using (offshore) tax haven is a valid and functioning strategy/aproach...?

There are couple of questions/problems i would like to ask about:

1) Is this a valid and functioning approach that would work to begin with...?

2) Would any "serious" and "safe" bank open a bank account for such (newly created at that) offshore based tax haven company...?

3) Would any "serious" and "safe" bitcoin/crypto exchange (like binance, coinbase, bitfinex, kraken etc.) open and validate an exchange account for such newly created company, bases in a tax haven...? (i think majority of these exchanges have quite strict AML/KYC requirements, so i think there might be a problem...?)

4) Would the bank that would open a banking account for such (newly formed) offshore tax haven company keep the bank account opened and functioning (and not "close or freeze" or whatever it, immediately) even if lets say a 6 figure ammount of EUR/USD would land on such banking account, comming from the crypto exchange... (binance, kraken, bitfinex etc...)?

Thank you
 
There is a possibility of selling crypto for stables, USDT usdc busd dia others then at the sweet price buy back crypto of choice.


Also you could keep all the funds in btc and then hedge by shorting btc, close the short at that or close to the sweet price and that's it, but this option is though in terms of when to short, fund rate etc.


Selling crypto for fiat could be a good idea in order to limit the future taxable profit if you are a resident of a low tax country and if there are no laws that tax you if you change residence or other type of tax on profits made from buying of assets at a time when you were resident in you country of origin.

I think Dubai is the place for low tax, but for the moment I don't have enough experience to talk more about.

Check this out https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...dence-visa-and-bank-accounts-dls-dubai.32490/
 
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There is a possibility of selling crypto for stables, USDT usdc busd dia others then at the sweet price buy back crypto of choice.

Crypto to crypto (which is crypto to stablecoin) is taxed also in my country so thats a no go for me. + I dont have any experience with stablecoins, im not sure i trust them, i would be worried that i dont have the stablecoins in my real own bank account etc. Im aware of this option in general but its just not suitable in my situation...

Also you could keep all the funds in btc and then hedge by shorting btc, close the short at that or close to the sweet price and that's it, but this option is though in terms of when to short, fund rate etc.

I have a very vague (if any) understanding of how shorts or longs works etc. I just played a little bit with spot selling and buying, havent even really traded, im also no registered in any exchange that allows for shorting or longing AFAIK. So this is a totally new world to me, but from all the options how to reduce tax i have thought about shorting/longing (well going short at top of the market (or what i think is the top) didnt really cross my mind...

Thank you for suggesting it, i will have to think about it and study the issue a bit i think... Isnt going short (at the perceived top of the market) a taxable event (whether in the begging of the short of after succesfully closing it...?) Lets say i have 10 BTC, BTC gets to 200 000 USD, i want to short BTC price at those 200 000 USD, with those 10 BTC, and will wait like 6 months before it goes low to 100 000 USD, there i would close the short... At that time i would have NOT 10 BTC, but 20 BTC...? Does it work this way...?

But i could also get "liqudated" (dont really know what that means or works in detail), if the BTC prie goes UP from the level i short (200 000 usd), correct? Would i lose all the 10 BTC...? (or slowly "bleed them" until i decide that pain is too much and close the short...?) Would i bleed BTC or lose them all at once...? At what price (higher from 200 000 BTC...?)

Selling crypto for fiat could be a good idea in order to limit the future taxable profit if you are a resident of a low tax country and if there are no laws that tax you if you change residence or other type of tax on profits made from buying of assets at a time when you were resident in you country of origin.

I think Dubai is the place for low tax, but for the moment I don't have enough experience to talk more about.

Check this out https://www.offshorecorptalk.com/th...dence-visa-and-bank-accounts-dls-dubai.32490/

Yes this all i know :-), no i dont live in a BTC tax friendly country, so i would have to leave (change tax residency) to another country. I know all this and already had few consultations with local tax lawyers...

But this is not what im asking about in this thread :-)!

I would really want to know answers to my original questions (see 1st post)... is that proposed solution of mine workable and doable, and would it work at all...?
 
Hi there,
There are good and legit ways to minimize taxation on Crypto gains.
The merits of your case should be looked at individually as your tax residency, the type of investing/trading you perform are all relevant. Different tools may be applied, like a company abroad. If you would be interested to discuss in more detail, kindly let me know and I can PM you.
 
Hello

I have zero experience with (offshore) tax havens. I am, live and have tax domicile in an European country. My question is - is there a way to optimize (=pay less or ideally no tax) on ones (selling) of bitcoin/crypto...? The crypto would be legally obtained, one can prove its origin etc. Theres nothing illegal about the crypto or source of funds etc. One just wants to pay no tax.

Traditionally tax havens would probably NOT be a good way how to optimize ones selling of crypto i assume, mainly because you would want to use the profits in a way that benefits you - buy a property in your country for example etc. which may (and would) catch the eye and attention of local tax man, who would ask you where did you get the money...

A) So in this sense - selling bitcoin (using a company in a tax haven through which you would sell it) and wanting to use the profits to buy "real things" is NOT a good idea at all, correct? (Because the authorities will see the "real things" and ask you where did you get the funds to buy them..)

B) But what if one wants just to re-invest the profits back into bitcoin at a lower price? E.g. You sell your bitcoin at, i dont know, 100 000 usd, then you obtain fiat money (USD, EUR whatever) and you need it to just to "sit" somewhere, in some safe bank account, until BTC price falls to 50 000 USD (lets say) in 6-12 months. And then you buy back the bitcoin at a lower price... You just want to re-invest the profits from BTC sale, you dont want to buy ANYTHING with it at all... And of course you dont want to really pay any tax on it (why would you if you wanna just re-invest it)

In this case, using (offshore) tax haven is a valid and functioning strategy/aproach...?

There are couple of questions/problems i would like to ask about:

1) Is this a valid and functioning approach that would work to begin with...?

2) Would any "serious" and "safe" bank open a bank account for such (newly created at that) offshore based tax haven company...?

3) Would any "serious" and "safe" bitcoin/crypto exchange (like binance, coinbase, bitfinex, kraken etc.) open and validate an exchange account for such newly created company, bases in a tax haven...? (i think majority of these exchanges have quite strict AML/KYC requirements, so i think there might be a problem...?)

4) Would the bank that would open a banking account for such (newly formed) offshore tax haven company keep the bank account opened and functioning (and not "close or freeze" or whatever it, immediately) even if lets say a 6 figure ammount of EUR/USD would land on such banking account, comming from the crypto exchange... (binance, kraken, bitfinex etc...)?

Thank you
You can consider Cyprus as an option. Corporate tax rate is low but it's not considered a tax haven. No tax/sdc on dividends, and please note that we already have several entities with similar structure as yours. Happy to PM you to discuss this.
 
Ok thanks, wont there be any problems with the 1-4 points i have written?

1) Will the company be able to open a bank account not connected with me directly in any way (my name doesnt figure anywhere)? (i assume yes, offshore companies need bank accounts its inseparable i assume :) )
2) But will any serious crypto exchange (bitfinex, kraken, binance etc.) accept opening and validating (KYC/AML) an crypto exchange corporate/company/business account for an offshore tax haven based company...? (people must have tried it already, there must be some consensus in this specific issue....?)
3) Will the bank account be able to receive 6-7 figure ammount (EUR, USD etc.) from the exchange without it being frozen, closed etc...?

thank you
 
Ok thanks, wont there be any problems with the 1-4 points i have written?

1) Will the company be able to open a bank account not connected with me directly in any way (my name doesnt figure anywhere)? (i assume yes, offshore companies need bank accounts its inseparable i assume :) )
2) But will any serious crypto exchange (bitfinex, kraken, binance etc.) accept opening and validating (KYC/AML) an crypto exchange corporate/company/business account for an offshore tax haven based company...? (people must have tried it already, there must be some consensus in this specific issue....?)
3) Will the bank account be able to receive 6-7 figure ammount (EUR, USD etc.) from the exchange without it being frozen, closed etc...?

thank you
Again this all depends on the jurisdiction, bank etc. Eg. If you go to a tax haven jurisdiction you will have issues
 
But there should be at least one jurisdiction and at least one somewhat reputable bank that shouldnt make any problems...?
A bank that doesn’t make any problem? it doesn’t exist.
 
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