Cashing Out Crypto Gains in Dubai

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Jimbo5

New member
Hi,
I am hoping someone could tell me if it is worth cashing out My Crypto Gains in Dubai and bypass Tax on Capital Gains in the UK.
I am working on the hypothesis that my Crypto Gains could be in excess of 5 Million UK pounds by the end of this year.
I currently have a holiday home in Dubai and love going there for holidays and could get a resident's visa if I wanted to through owning property in Dubai. I have heard that I can become a tax resident of Dubai if I live there for over 180 days of the year. I could probably do this for a year or two but wouldn't like to do this for 5 years and would like to come back to the UK after cashing out.
I know there is a HMRC law that states that any gains that I make outside of foreign employment would be subject to UK tax when coming back to the UK if within 5 years, does that mean I would be subject to cap gains tax if the money hits my UK bank account when I return within 5 years ?
If I set up a freezone company or an Ofshore company in Dubai could I take the realised capital gains as a form of employment income similar to bitcoin trading gains and therefore not have to pay the capital gains tax when returning to the UK?
My end goal is to puchase property with my cashed out funds in the UK so I need to eventually bring the funds back so leaving the money abroad in an offshore account is not an option for me.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Jim
 

CaptK

Nominee Company Bank Account Real Estate Passport
BANNED MEMBER
Hello Guys,

I have read some misleading information here - if someone isn't sure just ask us to take care of you.

If the whole structure is setup right it won't cost you more then the 8.000-10.000 USD and the Crypto Cash Out max. 1%
@Fred could you clarify what misleading information there is by quoting the thread and what you disagree with in your opinion.

Individual circumstances will not have a one size fits all approach due to local laws. So not everyone can take advantage of this solution without serious risk.
 

Fred

Dubai Expat
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
Commercial Service
Entrepreneur
Well what the people are looking here is a fiat on-/off-ramp for no source of funds coins.

They have to be to effectively hide from HMRC.

This fact doesn't change by spending 3x costs on a setup and additional 2-3% for transactions.

**** is **** even if painted gold - that's my point.

So if you are willing to go this route then don't overpay as the facts doesn't change and it keeps questionable anyways.
 

CaptK

Nominee Company Bank Account Real Estate Passport
BANNED MEMBER
Well what the people are looking here is a fiat on-/off-ramp for no source of funds coins.

They have to be to effectively hide from HMRC.

This fact doesn't change by spending 3x costs on a setup and additional 2-3% for transactions.

**** is **** even if painted gold - that's my point.

So if you are willing to go this route then don't overpay as the facts doesn't change and it keeps questionable anyways.
The issue is they need to bring the funds back in. If it was a relocate and only return to see family then a standard set up would work. But if you intend to go back, buy a house and invest.

From someone who can talk from a UK perspective and have an insight to a few other countries.

Just like Google, Amazon and Apple are able to circumvent the IRS legally. A proper structure will get you to where you need to be, and most importantly be able to sleep at night.
 

Jimbo5

New member
Hello Guys,

I have read some misleading information here - if someone isn't sure just ask us to take care of you.

If the whole structure is setup right it won't cost you more then the 8.000-10.000 USD and the Crypto Cash Out max. 1%
Thanks Fred, is this a freezone company set up that you are quoting ? How do you propose that I cash out in Dubai. Would this mean becoming a tax resident and cashing out to an exchange in the UAE like BitOasis ?
 

Fred

Dubai Expat
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
Commercial Service
Entrepreneur
Thanks Fred, is this a freezone company set up that you are quoting ? How do you propose that I cash out in Dubai. Would this mean becoming a tax resident and cashing out to an exchange in the UAE like BitOasis ?
Yes, we setup the company with a Freezone without Audit requirements.

We don't recommend BitOasis as it has a bad fee structure.

Send me PM or mail to [email protected] to discuss everything further.
 

Jimbo5

New member
Total set up would cost about 25K, to include Company structure, actual real business contracts that can be verified. A percentage of the amount that is negotiable but budget 2-5%.
Hi CaptK are you based in the UK how can I contact you ?
 

mebuq

New member
you can personally structure an offshore company in Dubai directly from the providers, don't get a middle man ever who takes extra for no reason. the UAE is very friendly in setting up companies and residency visas for company owners
 

Fred

Dubai Expat
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
Commercial Service
Entrepreneur
you can personally structure an offshore company in Dubai directly from the providers, don't get a middle man ever who takes extra for no reason. the UAE is very friendly in setting up companies and residency visas for company owners
You mean directly with the Freezone.

If you consider the time and money invest to get the Residence Visa and especially the Business Bank Account done - this is simply not true.

The truth is if you have plenty of time and nerves and are willing to pay some learning money you figure over the weeks everything out by yourself.

Best example how many people we know that are not aware of wearing Shorts and not Jeans during the Medical Test - you get rejected and another day and 100$ is lost for the hotel and so on.

Not to speak about personal experience and recommendations when it comes to banks, cards, property agents, areas and so on that can be provided by local expats that provides this service like we do.

For most people it's a no brainer to pay some fee for straight forward advise and keep focusing on the business and leave the headache to a service provider - especially Dubai Company with Residence Visa and local UAE bank accounts that requires be physical there.

If we are talking about registering a UK Ltd - I'm with you.
 
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mebuq

New member
I am not sure what your talking about, Dubai has more shorts on the streets than London. I am from the UAE and I know what im talking about. I believe Dubai is customer friendly and one of the easiest cities to finish up any paperwork in. Ive lived in Paris and the UK and everything is very difficult from hiring a taxi until going to an emergency room. and your saying wearing shorts will make u pay in the UAE. pathetic
 

James Spader

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Guys please get back to topic. OP you made this a "question thread" so go and mark the answers of the highest value for you and down vote the one that you dislike. Alternative mark the question you best like as final answer!

Otherwise you don't comply to the forum rules!
 

Nicholas Van Orton

Entrepreneur
you can personally structure an offshore company in Dubai directly from the providers, don't get a middle man ever who takes extra for no reason. the UAE is very friendly in setting up companies and residency visas for company owners
Been there, done that. And, from real experience, I'll always recommend to have someone in the field help you with the process of setting things up, rather than doing it yourself. Yes, you can do it on your own, yes all the info is available out there, yes the freezone staff will help you, yes, yes....but at the end of the day, if you value your time (if you really do), you'll find someone with the right knowledge about how these things work, and pay a reasonable fee for handling the ever so harder and tenuous work and the ever so time consuming going back and forth with documents the whole process entails.

NVO

PS: Admin, I get it this is off-topic, but OP is kind of misleading with his statement, and since his post hasn't been removed, I believe it's just fair I give out my opinion. Feel free to delete if you don't agree with this.
 

xyz999

New member
Hi,
I am hoping someone could tell me if it is worth cashing out My Crypto Gains in Dubai and bypass Tax on Capital Gains in the UK.
I am working on the hypothesis that my Crypto Gains could be in excess of 5 Million UK pounds by the end of this year.
I currently have a holiday home in Dubai and love going there for holidays and could get a resident's visa if I wanted to through owning property in Dubai. I have heard that I can become a tax resident of Dubai if I live there for over 180 days of the year. I could probably do this for a year or two but wouldn't like to do this for 5 years and would like to come back to the UK after cashing out.
I know there is a HMRC law that states that any gains that I make outside of foreign employment would be subject to UK tax when coming back to the UK if within 5 years, does that mean I would be subject to cap gains tax if the money hits my UK bank account when I return within 5 years ?
If I set up a freezone company or an Ofshore company in Dubai could I take the realised capital gains as a form of employment income similar to bitcoin trading gains and therefore not have to pay the capital gains tax when returning to the UK?
My end goal is to puchase property with my cashed out funds in the UK so I need to eventually bring the funds back so leaving the money abroad in an offshore account is not an option for me.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Jim
why dont you open your acc somewhere else where it would be covered and not "taxed" - you just cash it out and pay small "cover fee" and you are free to go and use these funds
 

Rothchilds

New member
Hi,
I am hoping someone could tell me if it is worth cashing out My Crypto Gains in Dubai and bypass Tax on Capital Gains in the UK.
I am working on the hypothesis that my Crypto Gains could be in excess of 5 Million UK pounds by the end of this year.
I currently have a holiday home in Dubai and love going there for holidays and could get a resident's visa if I wanted to through owning property in Dubai. I have heard that I can become a tax resident of Dubai if I live there for over 180 days of the year. I could probably do this for a year or two but wouldn't like to do this for 5 years and would like to come back to the UK after cashing out.
I know there is a HMRC law that states that any gains that I make outside of foreign employment would be subject to UK tax when coming back to the UK if within 5 years, does that mean I would be subject to cap gains tax if the money hits my UK bank account when I return within 5 years ?
If I set up a freezone company or an Ofshore company in Dubai could I take the realised capital gains as a form of employment income similar to bitcoin trading gains and therefore not have to pay the capital gains tax when returning to the UK?
My end goal is to puchase property with my cashed out funds in the UK so I need to eventually bring the funds back so leaving the money abroad in an offshore account is not an option for me.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Jim
I haven't seen it mentioned yet but if i was you I would never cash out the crypto principal,

coins can generate anything from 5% - 15% apr with a portfolio of 5 million you are going to get several times the average UK salary in interest and returns.
all these profits are generated by you or your Dubai entity there and so are not going to be subject to UK taxes as you earned that money in Dubai
 

khinkali

Silver Member
I don't really understand the plan. Spend a few $k on a company, move to Dubai for a year, lose your Ledger wallet containing £5 million of coins in a Dubai taxi and then coincidentally make £5 million consulting income that year? Because tax inspectors like to believe in such lucky coincidences?

I'm not saying it's impossible to convert gains to income but it's not as simple as some people seem to think.

HMRC are likely to know about your Coinbase purchase of BTC that's become worth £5 million. If they ask about those coins, it's up to you to demonstrate how you didn't make any capital gains.

I apologise for explicitly not answering your question, but have you considered cashing out before moving to Dubai? In your position I'd rather pay 20% now than %45 in a year or two if UK cap gains rates are harmonised with income tax. (that document isn't from a fringe lefty group, it was commissioned by the Chancellor). Then once in Dubai, you want to make as much new gain and income as you can, to get the taxed £1 million back before returning to UK.

Personally I'd go Dubai to cash out, then live somewhere pleasant like Malta or Cyprus for 5 years. But I understand that you might have personal reasons to go back to the UK sooner.
 

Gamblord

New member
I don't really understand the plan. Spend a few $k on a company, move to Dubai for a year, lose your Ledger wallet containing £5 million of coins in a Dubai taxi and then coincidentally make £5 million consulting income that year? Because tax inspectors like to believe in such lucky coincidences?

I'm not saying it's impossible to convert gains to income but it's not as simple as some people seem to think.

HMRC are likely to know about your Coinbase purchase of BTC that's become worth £5 million. If they ask about those coins, it's up to you to demonstrate how you didn't make any capital gains.

I apologise for explicitly not answering your question, but have you considered cashing out before moving to Dubai? In your position I'd rather pay 20% now than %45 in a year or two if UK cap gains rates are harmonised with income tax. (that document isn't from a fringe lefty group, it was commissioned by the Chancellor). Then once in Dubai, you want to make as much new gain and income as you can, to get the taxed £1 million back before returning to UK.

Personally I'd go Dubai to cash out, then live somewhere pleasant like Malta or Cyprus for 5 years. But I understand that you might have personal reasons to go back to the UK sooner.

I keep hearing this tripe but it's not Coinbase reporting you for BUYING crypto that triggers the tax authorities, it's the disposal or selling of crypto for fiat that does this. You could buy 1,000,000 dollars worth of BTC and never hear from the tax authority but selling less than 100 dollars of BTC for fiat gets a e-mail or letter sent to you. If you said anything contrary to this it is fearmongering and misleading information.

Everyone probably knows about St. Kitts and Nevis no tax countries but the problem is you need to have 150k ready and it's a catch 22 since people don't want to cash out their crypto for fiat in a high tax country. I think this forum is shilling a Dubai exit strategy but it costs 10k and nobody other than the people offering the service can vouch for the service. I think people want to trust but with millions at stake the risk is too much. I heard MMCrypto used DLS Dubai but is there any proof of this?
 
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Fred

Dubai Expat
Mentor Group Gold
Elite Member
Commercial Service
Entrepreneur
I heard MMCrypto used DLS Dubai but is there any proof of this?
Despite of what you heard you see on YouTube anyway where all the Crypto guys are based and they are based in Dubai for a reason.

It's obviously that Dubai is the way to go in 2021 if you are into the Crypto Market with trading or holding since few years.

Especially if you are in your 20s and 30s you have right now the best time of your life in Dubai with the worldwide lockdown everybody that made some money is coming to Dubai - it's a really nice community that has grown here over the last months.

Anyway if you made millions with Crypto then give it a try.

I understand the struggle as a Crypto Investor that became super rich over the last 6 months but basically doesn't have any entrepreneur mindset or skill.

You can't force anybody to his own luck and the truth is that again 80% of the people will loose money in the current bull market because of simply taking no action.
 

khinkali

Silver Member
I keep hearing this tripe but it's not Coinbase reporting you for BUYING crypto that triggers the tax authorities, it's the disposal or selling of crypto for fiat that does this.
The way things are going, all VASPs in OECD and beyond will be required to hand your details to the next VASP when you transfer. Do you think that Coinbase and other VASPs won't hand over the details of people who moved coins to private wallets?

If you bought 100 BTC on Coinbase at $1,000 each for $100,000 in 2017 and now you move to a private wallet, a tumbler, then cash out to a new account registered in Dubai or St Kitts or the moon then you have two issues: 1. What happened to the 100 BTC that you bought while UK resident? 2. How did you earn the $5,000,000 in your year abroad?

I reckon that if you had the happy coincidence of losing the 100 BTC and then making 100 BTC worth of $ income or gains while living abroad for a tax year, HMRC are really going to want to see exactly how that happened if you do get investigated.

A UK resident with unrealised gains would do well to move to Dubai and then stay non-UK resident for 5 tax years. Some people trash the Dubai lifestyle and there's no way I'd want to live there on $1k per month, but if you have money it's a decent option. Alternatively, UK statutory residence rules mean you can keep quite a lot of UK attachments while non-resident and you don't need to stay in some other place full time. Being semi-nomadic for 5 years is not too bad if you have $millions.

If I understand correctly, with UAE residence for banking and Georgia HNW programme for tax residence, it looks like you could live minimum 2 days in UAE (6 months apart), up to 182 days in Cyrpus, 19 to 119 days in UK (depending on ties like family, work and housing), and 61+ days elsewhere. Winter in Dubai, Spring and Summer in Cyprus and Autumn in Georgia gives good weather all year (but watch for PE or other issues in UK or Cyprus if working or actively trading). Does anyone here disagree with this approach?
 

Gamblord

New member
The way things are going, all VASPs in OECD and beyond will be required to hand your details to the next VASP when you transfer. Do you think that Coinbase and other VASPs won't hand over the details of people who moved coins to private wallets?

If you bought 100 BTC on Coinbase at $1,000 each for $100,000 in 2017 and now you move to a private wallet, a tumbler, then cash out to a new account registered in Dubai or St Kitts or the moon then you have two issues: 1. What happened to the 100 BTC that you bought while UK resident? 2. How did you earn the $5,000,000 in your year abroad?

I reckon that if you had the happy coincidence of losing the 100 BTC and then making 100 BTC worth of $ income or gains while living abroad for a tax year, HMRC are really going to want to see exactly how that happened if you do get investigated.

A UK resident with unrealised gains would do well to move to Dubai and then stay non-UK resident for 5 tax years. Some people trash the Dubai lifestyle and there's no way I'd want to live there on $1k per month, but if you have money it's a decent option. Alternatively, UK statutory residence rules mean you can keep quite a lot of UK attachments while non-resident and you don't need to stay in some other place full time. Being semi-nomadic for 5 years is not too bad if you have $millions.

If I understand correctly, with UAE residence for banking and Georgia HNW programme for tax residence, it looks like you could live minimum 2 days in UAE (6 months apart), up to 182 days in Cyrpus, 19 to 119 days in UK (depending on ties like family, work and housing), and 61+ days elsewhere. Winter in Dubai, Spring and Summer in Cyprus and Autumn in Georgia gives good weather all year (but watch for PE or other issues in UK or Cyprus if working or actively trading). Does anyone here disagree with this approach?

From everything I've read online it's fiat exchanges in OECD countries that are basically become CRS/FATCA compliant. I have yet to hear anyone using only Chinese exchanges, DEX's, and defi exchanges get reported to tax authorities. Like you said, that will probably change in the future. I've never used Coinbase but I've only heard bad things.

The way the places like HMRC operate, they just look at your transactions. If you have large amount of fiat and you are spending it on expensive items over 10k and there's a mismatch between how much you are spending and coincidentally having no income you get reported. Unless you have already paid exit taxes I would probably stay clear of buying expensive things in the home country just to avoid the headache of a possible audit. Just keep the money in tax haven property, crypto etc.

Not sure why you would want to travel around to all those countries. Why not go back and forth between the UK and Dubai twice each year?
 
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