credtiors want their money, can a Swiss company protect you?

[GrumpyMess]

This means you can conduct business but NOTHING on your name, not even a debit card. It surely can be done, even without opening offshore. Good luck

It can't be done. May be some complex trust setups will work, but there are no simple solutions. Having a nominee person in front of you which will have a 100% access to your funds is unwisely decision

 

[Hyo]

Talking out of experience here, nothing to prove. Just helping somebody asking for light advice. Of course, as I said clearly, it will depend on your jurisdiction. Regarding the straw "man" , not the best solution I´ll give you that, but and option nevetrheless.if you find yourself in a dire situation you have to take risks to get out of it, going the safe path will not help in this case. Have a great day.

 

[bastard]

lot of great input to further research. I'm considering a few other options for him some are including the use of darks for total protection it can just be challenging. Another option may be the following scenariou.

- Register a simple UK or even offshore company in someone else name, friend, wife or so.
- get a bank account for this company or even TransferWise or other EMI - 4 - 5 accounts may be useful to look long term on all of this
- once everything is setup and work, start the business and let the money float in.
- after 6 - 12 month change the owner of the company to a Trust without to inform the banks / EMI's about this change.

How does that sound? still impossible you think or what's the downs for this constellations?

I choose a UK or offshore company to avoid complicated change of ownership processes and even personal tax incurred to the current owner.

 

[Martin Everson]

- after 6 - 12 month change the owner of the company to a Trust without to inform the banks / EMI's about this change.

You know UK has public register right? You know all company record changes can be broadcast to anyone choosing to track your company also? So they will know of change of director or address etc.

Get information about a company

Get company information including registered address, previous company names, directors' details, accounts, annual returns and company reports, if it's been dissolved

www.gov.uk

 

[Spinat]

I second @Martin Everson forget about the UK in this puzzle you need to find a better country to setup a company for this purpose. I don't say it's possible but you must find a different country to try this. Cyprus may be a good option for you if you can get it setup with someone you trust there.

 

[jakonda]

According to my info it can be done with a relatively easy setup which consist of two-three offshore entities and some people willing to participate in this "carousel". Disclaimer, I have never used this setup (personally) but I saw it worked in ex-Yugo state - you should take in consideration current residency, timing, and many other factors. BTW I think the person using this kind of tricks is probably sleeping very bad...

 

[bastard]

what jurisdictions did you heard about would work for such "carousel" setups? I'm interested to learn more

BTW I think the person using this kind of tricks is probably sleeping very bad...

yeah he may have a bad sleep

 

[Remy]

lot of great input to further research. I'm considering a few other options for him some are including the use of darks for total protection it can just be challenging. Another option may be the following scenariou.

- Register a simple UK or even offshore company in someone else name, friend, wife or so.
- get a bank account for this company or even TransferWise or other EMI - 4 - 5 accounts may be useful to look long term on all of this
- once everything is setup and work, start the business and let the money float in.
- after 6 - 12 month change the owner of the company to a Trust without to inform the banks / EMI's about this change.

How does that sound? still impossible you think or what's the downs for this constellations?

I choose a UK or offshore company to avoid complicated change of ownership processes and even personal tax incurred to the current owner.

I would like to PM you and not possible. PM me to have a discussion.

 

[Spinat]

what jurisdictions did you heard about would work for such "carousel" setups? I'm interested to learn more

count me in for that, sounds like it is mission impossible

 

[hernanday]

it's still legal money earned by the swiss company once it is registered.

okay, say the swiss company can't protect me. Is there any company setup anywhere that would protect him?

He would essentially be looking to create a different story for the money. Ignore the naysayers, they only say that because they have no answer so attack the question rather than contribute to it. I don't really care where your friend got the money from. Most people view the idea of offshore companies as inherently immoral anyways. I'm more concerned of what can work realistically.

Evading the tax authorities is stupid if you are in any developed nation with competent tax authorities that can imprison you for tax evasion... Its not just stupid because I think you should pay taxes, it is stupid because, You will get caught and punished, defeating the purpose of evading.

If you are in the Congo or in some rural part of Russia where the government is useless and has no ability to really even send an inspector to your cut off town with no roads and can't do anything, then tax evasion might actually work.

Get a lawyer, negotiate a settlement for taxes that are 1/3rd of what you owe. The creditors only have 2 years in most places to sue you for the assets, so just let them chase and avoid.

Spread your assets wide and thin, outside the EU, trust, llc, corporations, layered structures, foundations, bring on partners, stick it into real estate, check out ICIJ and see how companies hide their UBOs or obscure it.

The way to get around the Fradulent Transfers is to simply make your money appear to not be from the creditor. So if you borrowed $200k from a creditor, and you have it in cash, go around to festivals and setup a stand selling beer or BBQ or whatever they like in Europe. Exaggerate your income from this activity, so the bank thinks you did 10 events and earned $20k in cash per event. Make sure to have receipts or make fake ones, not just of what you sold, but of wht you bought too. Put the money in and now your money has a new story. Another way to do this is as a reseller. Buy products for $200k, sell them for $180k. Now you have $180k that didn't come from creditor. As you re-enter the money into the financial system, don't stick it in your own, stick it outside your home nation and outside EU, so they won't know you have this money.

Only thing in Swiss/Austria worth sticking your valuables in might be a storage facility, or a vault. Like you can stick $60k in cash across 3 different vaults.

 

[hernanday]

Pay the creditors and tell the bad guys (taxman) there is no more money left. Personal bankruptcy to follow.

In most places that is not the end of the world, but will be uncomfortable for a couple of years.

Other way around. The tax man can imprison you for tax evasion. The creditor cannot imprison you for creditor evasion, if that was the case, everyone who defaulted on a credit card would be in prison like Dubai. Most creditor sell the debt to a 3rd part collector who will settle for pennies on the dollar. The government doesn't sell the debt, they don't even hound you, they just get court order for prison for tax evasion and you can't escape that.

Get lawyer, settle with tax man for 30-50% of what you owe. Tell the creditors to f**k off. Unless you are in the Gulf they cannot imprison you.

 

[JohnLocke]

The creditors only have 2 years in most places to sue you for the assets, so just let them chase and avoid.

Now I'm a little curious when the creditor first got a judgment from one or legal system then they can stay by pursuing you to recover the money. You don't get rid of the debt after two years? Or how do you want to do this?

 

[hernanday]

Now I'm a little curious when the creditor first got a judgment from one or legal system then they can stay by pursuing you to recover the money. You don't get rid of the debt after two years? Or how do you want to do this?

It depends, like if the creditor full on sues you in a common law jurisdiction (civil law I don't know, probably a different beast). They have 2 years from the last offence (non-payment) to sue you in most common law jurisdictions. It can vary by state and country, some are more than 2 like 5 or 7, but most are 2.

If the creditor has got a judgement it means he sued you and won and got a court order which last 7 years (varies by jurisdiction- but in mine). That can also be renewed at the discretion of the judge for another 7 years.

If the creditor simply calls you and harasses you or sold off the debt, most debt collectors don't try to chase someone through the courts with a judgement because trials are expensive. If you deny owing the money and drag your feet and force them through trial and they have any experience in this area, they'll know they'd recover nothing. No one with money is going to fight a judgement in court because you'd likely lose and incur cost. The experienced debt collectors know pay for a lawyer, chase the debt, win your case, person flees or declares bankruptcy, and you have a judgement on paper but no enforcement to obtain the money is possible because there are no assets. After all, if the person had assets, they'd probably pay you.

I'm not sure if I answered your question.

 

[JohnLocke]

Thank you so much for your in-depth explanation, it was very interesting reading and explained it all on a dot. But that is, if you have a judgment in hand on a debtor that lasts 7 years and it can only be renewed, then it will never expire. Or is there going to be a trial every time? Would there be countries like Cyprus that could protect one's wealth from these creditors?

 

[hernanday]

Thank you so much for your in-depth explanation, it was very interesting reading and explained it all on a dot. But that is, if you have a judgment in hand on a debtor that lasts 7 years and it can only be renewed, then it will never expire. Or is there going to be a trial every time? Would there be countries like Cyprus that could protect one's wealth from these creditors?

Its up to the discretion of the judge, I mean look at Ron Goldman/OJ Simpson how many years has he been trying to chase the guy for money and payment on a judgement from the 1990s? Until you declare bankruptcy, or 7 years past from the judgement, the judge could theoretically just keep on renewing it. And they have a good incentive to, they made an order, why would they want the order to expire if the money is still owed?

There are several good countries for protection of the wealth st. kitts and Nevis, I think cook island or vanautu (I forget which one just google asset protection from creditor), Belize use to be, I'm not sure if it still is, there are website that explain it out but basically, those countries make it hard for creditors to get at your assets, by limiting the time they have to like 1-2 years to sue the structure you put the money in. There are several more, like this.