French millionaire denied Swiss citizenship over speeding offence

[backpacker]

Wow, that's comparatively low. In 2021, a German full-time employee earned an average of around €50k on a 12-month salary.

Durchschnittlicher Bruttomonatsverdienst bis 2021 | Statista

Der durchschnittliche Bruttomonatsverdienst in Deutschland ist zuletzt wieder gestiegen. Im Corona-Jahr 2020 sank das Durchschnittsgehalt in Deutschland.

de.statista.com

The number of @GPT is correct.
Many people in this forum live in a parallel world when it comes to real life expenses and spending habits of the average population.
Also take into account that many Swiss households are highly indebted (certainly more than in Germany).
Btw., if one lives like the average Swiss, expenses are only marginally higher than in neighbouring countries. Biggest draw is usually rent. Other costs are negligible from a point-of-difference.

 

[RealDude]

The number of @GPT is correct.
Many people in this forum live in a parallel world when it comes to real life expenses and spending habits of the average population.
Also take into account that many Swiss households are highly indebted (certainly more than in Germany).
Btw., if one lives like the average Swiss, expenses are only marginally higher than in neighbouring countries. Biggest draw is usually rent. Other costs are negligible from a point-of-difference.

My apartment rent (3 bedroom, two floors, garden and balcony, underfloor heating, underground parking) within walking distance to the city center of a german metropolis is 600€ per month including heating.

 

[backpacker]

My apartment rent (3 bedroom, two floors, garden and balcony, underfloor heating, underground parking) within walking distance to the city center of a german metropolis is 600€ per month including heating.

I am getting jealous.
And that's also what I meant with "Biggest draw is usually rent". Problem is that in major cities (and its agglomeration) rich foreigners are pushing up rent prices.

 

[JackAlabama]

Swiss german speakers were the weirdest motherfuckers i met and by far lol. The culture of condescending dickhead that always make a fuss about everything is hardcore there. I saw people complaining/calling administration/filing complaints because the train was 3-5 minutes late lol

They tend to be very rigid and difficult to work with, germans themselves weren't like this. The deeper you get into the cantons like St Gallen for example and the weirder and more awkward people get. As far as suicides go, like GPT pointed out, when you're rich and you're past clubbing, going to restaurants, travelling, living the high life, people tend to get very depressed and things simply go downhill from there. Drugs, depression, often take the lead and without proper psychological counselling people just off themselves. It's common among rich circles, not just in switzerland. People often get bored out of their minds when they're sitting on millions and have fuckall motivation to do anything. Those who own businesses/companies fare better because they have an occupation still, but the folks who are in early retirement usually go crazy long before retirement age.

- You make millions and you're happy, start enjoying life, drop all occupations, you just live it up for a few years
- Soon you decide to settle down, marry a hot model girl you always dreamed of since you can afford it now
- Life gets boring slowly as you discovered everything about that "other side" you always dreamed of
- Turns out even your wife is a whore who married you for your money and has been cheating on you with the plumber
- Your kids are spoiled shitheads who hate you and already dreaming of leaving the family household (with your money of course)
- You start dwelling on the past, mistakes, etc, get depressed because you feel like there's nothing more to life, you got it all yet you're not satisfied with this new routine
- You start taking drugs, drinking booze and thinking of what you could have done differently
- Depression gets worse, and no one around you gives a s**t (Especially in a family full of superficial cunts)
- Your family finds you hanging in the garage
- The end

Seen many cases like this

And yet, everyone and his millionaire dog tries to get a Swiss private bank account lolz

 

[JohnnyDoe]

The number of @GPT is correct.
Many people in this forum live in a parallel world when it comes to real life expenses and spending habits of the average population.
Also take into account that many Swiss households are highly indebted (certainly more than in Germany).
Btw., if one lives like the average Swiss, expenses are only marginally higher than in neighbouring countries. Biggest draw is usually rent. Other costs are negligible from a point-of-difference.

The basic assumption is that the average person doesn’t participate in this forum (save for our friends from tax police).

 

[GPT]

My apartment rent (3 bedroom, two floors, garden and balcony, underfloor heating, underground parking) within walking distance to the city center of a german metropolis is 600€ per month including heating.

3 bedroom (around 90 sqm) in Swiss German speaking rural area will set you back around 2000 chf. In the cities you pay (depending on location in the city) a minimum of 4000 for a 3 bedroom. I’ve also seen them going for 8000.

Health insurance is the other high cost which is age dependent and is for a 40 year old approx 375 a month. Food expenses (groceries, not eating out) boils down to about 3-400 per person per month.

It’s mostly the foreigners in Switzerland earning the above 100k annual salaries. At the same time they mostly rent as they are posted here for 3-5 years. Most property owners are Swiss despite earning mostly in the lower salary ranges. Either institutional or property which is already in the family since forever.

The basic assumption is that the average person doesn’t participate in this forum (save for our friends from tax police).

That doesn’t mean that it changes the numbers. They remain the same regardless of the avarage person here in this forum.

 

[JohnnyDoe]

That doesn’t mean that it changes the numbers. They remain the same regardless of the avarage person here in this forum.

probably the “average Swiss” living in Geneva doesn’t employ a cleaning lady.
Anyway, if someone is so poor inside to think about suicide, this is the best choice for him and the society.

 

[RealDude]

In 2018 I had the opportunity to take an IT job for 150k CHF p.a. in Zurich. Compared to my German situation as an employee and the rent I mentioned, the Swiss cost of living didn’t exactly make it attractive at the time.

PS: At that time the exchange rate to the euro was not 1:1.

 

[GPT]

In 2018 I had the opportunity to take an IT job for 150k CHF p.a. in Zurich. Compared to my German situation as an employee and the rent I mentioned, the Swiss cost of living didn’t exactly make it attractive at the time.

PS: At that time the exchange rate to the euro was not 1:1.

Did you compare like for like? Id say with 150k you would be better of in CH due to a way lower tax bracket. Especially when living outside of Zurich itself.

probably the “average Swiss” living in Geneva doesn’t employ a cleaning lady.
Anyway, if someone is so poor inside to think about suicide, this is the best choice for him and the society.

Very likely even. During COVID lockdowns the queues for people to receive help from church and other organizations for food were the longest in Geneva.

 

[RealDude]

Did you compare like for like? Id say with 150k you would be better of in CH due to a way lower tax bracket. Especially when living outside of Zurich itself.

Of course. If it were a 100% remote job nowadays, I would reconsider and settle in a Swiss village on the German border with supermarkets & Co. on the other side. Moreover, I would immediately change every CHF penny into euros.

 

[Praetorian]

The basic assumption is that the average person doesn’t participate in this forum (save for our friends from tax police).

And feds in general lol

 

[GPT]

Of course. If it were a 100% remote job nowadays, I would reconsider and settle in a Swiss village on the German border with supermarkets & Co. on the other side. Moreover, I would immediately change every CHF penny into euros.

For taxes you would then be considered a Grenzgänger. Tax wise no benefits. I dare say you would be worse of.

 

[RealDude]

For taxes you would then be considered a Grenzgänger. Tax wise no benefits. I dare say you would be worse of.

Cross-border commuter if I live in Switzerland?

 

[GPT]

Cross-border commuter if I live in Switzerland?

Yes. If you work for a German company and live in Switzerland and live at / close to the border then you will be a Grenzgänger.

 

[backpacker]

For taxes you would then be considered a Grenzgänger. Tax wise no benefits. I dare say you would be worse of.

No, considering the scenariro @RealDude mentioned, he will be a resident of Switzerland. In the first five years he will get "autorisation de séjour B". Therafter, since he is a German citizen (Schengen applicable country), he can apply for "autorisation de séjour C".
With B his tax benefits are rather limited since he will be taxed at source (if employee). With C he will be taxed like a Swiss citizen. Tax rates are different and with B possible tax deductions are minimal.
However, wealth taxation applies to both categories.

Yes. If you work for a German company and live in Switzerland and live at / close to the border then you will be a Grenzgänger.

He says he works remotely. Maybe I missed something here but did he mention that it is a German company?
I was under the impression that he works as an employee for a local company, albeit remotely.

 

[GPT]

How i understood it was that he worked for a German company. And then he is a Grenzgänger. If it’s a Swiss company he gets a B permit indeed and can apply for C. It’s, since one or two years, not automatically a move from B to C anymore. You need a compelling argument nowadays. I’ve seen many people being denied the C permit. Also the law did change. Tax is not a reason for C anymore.