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Georgia Source Income and PE for Offshore Business

khinkali

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Feb 6, 2020
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I've spun this out from Offshore Company Managed by a Perpetual Traveller as there are some Georgia residence elements to the discussion.
  • Residence of offshore company
    • "Place of business"; e.g. country of registration or legal address listed in the charter
  • Place of management
    • Where managerial functions are conducted
    • If the "manager does not directly manage the enterprise" then use place of business
    • ( it looks like they use "place of business" for a partnership, which could be interesting for a transparent LP or LLP or SLP etc )
  • Source of income
    • Geogian customer of a service. Georgian service provider. Goods provided to someone in Georgia. etc.
offshore company (making most of your income) could also be managed by a seperate management company (making little income)
BEPS! eek¤%& With Georgia slowly integrating with the EU, I'd be worried about "profit shifting". People hire expensive tax auditors to help with this.

I don't think an offshore company can be ran by a PE. It's the other way around I think : the mother company runs the PE. Income from a PE is usually local source income - otherwise there is no point in having a PE.
In the tax code, Georgia sees the PE based on its management even if there is no local source income. If there's no local source income then the PE isn't taxed in Georgia, which could be an advantage. I would think that if you're worried about a Georgian PE then your aim might be to have the PE in Georgia, rather than avoid having it.

See discussions about Estonia company with Cyprus PE. You manage the business from Cyprus, pay 12.5% Cyprus tax and Estonia doesn't tax the Cyprus PE. But Georgia isn't in the EU and doesn't tax the non-Georgia source income managed from Georgia, so it looks like Estonia would tax it. Only at 20% on distributed profits, which is not a bad deal if you plan on compounding profits for a few years.

For the crypto : if it is using software, it could be a virtual IT company and these are tax free for all foreign sourced income.
That's for providing services (e.g. you license your trading software to people who trade coins), not for the actual trading (which looks to be tax free for natural persons based on ruling 201). This is the distinction that I'm considering personally.

Pay no corp tax and 5% dividend tax for foreign persons to use your software trading services, trade with no company and pay 0% tax (with some limitation as to which exchanges will allow a Georgian resident) or trade via an offshore company as a Georgian PE. I assume the latter has no Georgian taxes but you would need to find a jurisdiction that has good access to exchanges for trading (so not UAE or Belize) with no or low taxes (not US or EU) or that doesn't tax activity managed by the Georgian managed PE.

Given that Estonia taxes PE's outside the EU that don't pay tax in the PE country, I'm wondering how it works if you have a Georgian Branch of a Hong Kong or Singapore company? You don't have customers in Georgia. You don't provide services from Georgia. You manage a crypto business from inside Georgia. Why bother with the offshore company, given that if you trade in Georgia without a company it seems to be tax free? Because you have the flexibility to move physically around friendly jurisdictions. But where do you bank (country country, PE country, third country?) and what proof of address do you use for KYC/AML?

Another idea that is mentioned from time to time is a transparent partnership (e.g. England LLP, Scotland SLP or Ireland LLP). If I read the Georgian tax code correctly, a Georgian natural person managing an offshore LLP doesn't create a tax burden for the natural person or the partnership because the partnership is tax transparent and there's no Georgian source income. What address do you use for KYC/AML on exchanges (the Georgian branch, the offshore parent company, the managing partner)?

if you ask 3 tax lawyers, you usually get several differents answers
My understanding is that it's cheaper and easier to get an advance tax ruling in Georgia than in most places. So pick an answer you like, then see if the tax authorities agree to it. If they do, then you have a 3 year guarantee that can't be overruled by future retrospective legislation. I'd keep a copy by the bed to ensure restful sleep each night.
 
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I was told that, in case of a PE that manages non-local source income, this non-local source income becomes Georgian income because it is managed from within Georgia ... ; it's a bit the same like CFC rules on a personal income level (you manage personally your company in another country - so they will take your company as a resident company). But, i am not an expert, this is just hear say.

i heard Estonia is only good as a holding company : collect dividends (tax free) from another EU company (parent directory) and then these dividends can be distributed further tax free as it is not considered as "profit income" - so the 20 % tax does not apply. Would be interesting to have confirmation on that. It would mean if you are a Georgian resident, you should be able to receive these dividends tax free from your OU.

What do such rulings cost in Georgia anyway ?
 
this non-local source income becomes Georgian income because it is managed from within Georgia
I'm not a lawyer and I'm cautious about relying on the English language translation of the Georgian tax code, but I'd try to get advice (or a ruling) based on Article 97 paragraph 2 (emphasis mine):
2. A non-resident enterprise (other than the one carrying out international carriage of passengers and cargo by air) conducting business in Georgia through a permanent establishment shall be a profit tax payer according to the gross income from a Georgian-based source related to the permanent establishment, which shall be decreased by the deductions provided for by this Code.

But there's another aspect. If you provide a service from Georgia, then your activity is taxable. This includes "income received from a resident enterprise or a non-resident’s permanent establishment in Georgia for management". The advice (and ruling) I'm hoping for if I go down this route is that the salary for managing the offshore company would be taxable in Georgia, but otherwise the profit that isn't from work here isn't taxed here.

This seems to make sense. If I understand the wording correctly; if you own a widget factory on Planet Zog and manage it from Tbilisi, then you'd be taxed in Georgia on the management activity you did there but not the whole company's profit. Most EU countries would seem to tax the whole company's profit if you own or manage it from there. How to decide how much is paid for management? People make good money advising on this sort of thing.

I am intrigued about the advantage of using an Estonian company to receive dividends from another EU company and then pay dividends to a Georgian resident. Is this to avoid some kind of natural person (but not juristic person) dividend witholding tax from the original company? It seems oddly complex.

An Advanced Tax Ruling costs about $1800 or $3600 according to PWC's guide:
The cost of applying for an advance ruling is GEL 10,000 if the applicant’s annual turnover exceeds GEL 10 million and for non-residents having no permanent establishment in Georgia, otherwise applying fee comprises GEL 5,000.

You might not need that. You can get a "Private Tax Agent" for less. This is a government official who advises you for a fee, but doesn't give the protection of an Advance Tax Ruling. Or one of the many commercial providers, who might have dealt with your exact situation before and can guide you through it.
 
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While you are in Georgia and it looks like you have an supernatural knowledge about this country in tax & legal matters, so why not pull up some tax advisors we can trust, with legal offices and professional websites? That may be very help ful. All what I read from you @khinkali is loooooooots of noise - maybe it is of interest for some here and that's great but honestly your ultra long replies with tons of legal and tax advise which is an outcome of copy / paste work dosen 't help me much.

Let's hope others around here will get something out of it.
 
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No I'm not promoting advisors. Sorry about all the references @clemens I'll shut up.
Why would you not do that? IT would make sense to post some trustworthy advisors and lawyers here on the forum. That would be helpful, VERY HELPFUL actually.

Someone we are able to trust, pick up the phone call the man in the fire and ask him to help us setup something useful.
 
I wouldn't know which advisors and lawyers are trustworthy. My past experience is that it takes a while to know if you have a good one or not.

I've found and used banking services (easy) and expat health insurance (that took longer) but not yet company formation. I previously hired an advisor who was helpful in giving some general direction but last time we spoke he talked about giving up consulting and now his web site is no more.

So if you're looking for someone to recommend a "man in the fire" for legal services, I'm not the person to ask!
 
I'm very sorry to disagree with you Clemens, but the only one here "making noise" is yourself. Khinhali has actually been very helpful and kind and does not deserve to be spoken to in this rude manner - at all.

This forum is called offshore talk. I interpret it as talking about all aspects that have to do with offshore related topics - of course in the relevant (sub)forum. I might be wrong off course.

I believe his thread meets the criteria and that Khinkali's questions are relevant - maybe not to all but to some people, including myself. This forum is not made to serve your intrest only but to serve all.

Also, I have not read any rule saying : on this forum it is prohibited to exchange info, all we want is names, phone numbers, email addresses and websites of trustworthy partners and shut up apart from that.

It also seems very obvious to me that, if Khinkali would have the contacts you are seeking, he wouldn't have to ask these questions on a forum, now would he ?

Apart from that you could have simply written : Khinkali, would you happen to have any reliable contacts for me PLEASE ?

You are by no means obliged to read the threads in the forum so if they bother you, don't read them. Or ask your question in the mentor group.

I'm not familiar or member of the mentor group, but if such arrogance is the standard I don't think it is the best possible publicity for admin doing his best to create an up to date forum serving many.

@ Khinkali there is no need for you to shut up - at all - and I think most of the people who value your input - or who would simply read the tone in this thread - would agree with that.

I also don't see why you should apologize for being bullied by someone who clearly has little notion of the meaning of the word respect and seems to have some serious frustration issues that belong in a place
where the sun never comes up and that don't belong in this thread - which is why I'ld kindly ask admin to remove Clemens' comments from this thread, thank you.
 
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Hi @Offshorenerd it looks like I'm going to have to wait a while.

MoJ have asked people "except in emergency cases, to refrain from visiting public service halls, community centers, territorial offices of the Public Service Development Agency and the Public Registry and notary office". NBG has suspended licensing for a while too.

My project is crypto and currently in software testing so I can keep working on it without needing to worry. I haven't read anything yet about extending visa free stay, but I'm hopeful.
 
I got medical insurance from Armin at GPI who was very helpful
Ouch bla-"! they are using a weak SSL certificate, not the best for a insurance company.
 
weak SSL certificate
They have a customer site at mygpi.ge with proper SSL and online purchasing I think. I preferred to go and visit because I was having trouble finding a supplier to give long term cover to a non-citizen without a resident permit. Keep in mind that Georgia has universal health insurance, so individuals mostly don't buy a policy.

GPI are the biggest insurer in Georgia. They deal more with banks and public sector. They built and run 10 hospitals for the Georgian government. The insurance is Vienna Insurance Group, who are huge.