Goodbye to Dubai and all UAE Banks friendliness?

[troubled soul]

Wait, you can buy property in Dubai for crypto???

https://famproperties.com/blog/landlords-accepting-bitcoin-dubai
https://www.drivenproperties.ae/services/buy-dubai-property-in-cryptocurrency-bitcoinhttps://ellingtonproperties.ae/
Top broker even Developer accept crypto.
Also you can buy remotely also.

 

[Kol019201]

Wait, you can buy property in Dubai for crypto???

You can buy property in many places of the world with crypto. You just need the right seller / agency.
The problem is in most countries the tax authorities will ask you afterwards from where you got your crypto, and to pay taxes on them.
In Dubai nobody cares about that, you can just buy it and chill.

 

[DavidS]

You can buy property in many places of the world with crypto. You just need the right seller / agency.
The problem is in most countries the tax authorities will ask you afterwards from where you got your crypto, and to pay taxes on them.
In Dubai nobody cares about that, you can just buy it and chill.

Can you share any more real estate agencies selling RE for crypto?

 

[Kol019201]

Can you share any more real estate agencies selling RE for crypto?

Depends on where you want to buy it. Or are you still asking about Dubai?
Just google your location + real estate + bitcoin and you will find some agency directly.

 

[CaptK]

Depends on where you want to buy it. Or are you still asking about Dubai?
Just google your location + real estate + bitcoin and you will find some agency directly.

In Dubai it's just an intermediate who accepts the Crypto and cashes out to the seller. Crypto is not legal tender in the UAE so they will use a 3rd party who pays on your behalf.

For an example my clients wants to buy a property and he has BTC. I would receive the BTC and cash it out. I deliver the funds to the developer and he signs the property over.

The amount paid to the developer is the amount at which the broker cashes out at. So you could win if the price increase during the transfer but also lose if the price drops.

If the market moves 1% in a 1M transaction then that is a 10K difference either way. Ofcourse to they will refund you the difference if there is a gain. It's all transparent at the time of the transaction.

 

[Kol019201]

In Dubai it's just an intermediate who accepts the Crypto and cashes out to the seller. Crypto is not legal tender in the UAE so they will use a 3rd party who pays on your behalf.

For an example my clients wants to buy a property and he has BTC. I would receive the BTC and cash it out. I deliver the funds to the developer and he signs the property over.

The amount paid to the developer is the amount at which the broker cashes out at. So you could win if the price increase during the transfer but also lose if the price drops.

If the market moves 1% in a 1M transaction then that is a 10K difference either way. Ofcourse to they will refund you the difference if there is a gain. It's all transparent at the time of the transaction.

Correct, thats will happen 99% of the time if you buy anything with crypto from a company (exception Tesla).
They will always cash out the crypto to their local currency, because the company cant do s**t with crypto and needs liquidity.
For them its just a way to attract some more customers.

 

[Curveball]

I doubt that you want to use local provider BitOasis that charges all in all around 10% fees.

However beside of Mashreq and Arab Bank no bank is official claiming to be crypto unfriendly.

See attached the confirmation of Kraken as well.

First of all we and many clients have good experience when it comes to using the personal account organic that means you pay yourself a salary from the Business Bank Account of your own company and invest this money in Cryptocurrency via Kraken and withdraw this funds at a later stage from Kraken to the same Personal Bank Account.

In your thinking is a mistake - you need a reason to open the personal bank account in the UAE as well. You need to show either your own company or a salary certificate or you need 7 figures and want to invest in UAE in lets say real estate. Only mentioning you want to open the Personal Bank Account for unspecified investments won't satisfy the bank to open the Personal Account for you as well as for Crypto Trading only. This is like with all major high street bank - go and mention Crypto Trading only to HSBC, Barclays or Standart Chartered and they even open the account because they know they need to close it down sooner then later.

That's why we say use our innovative methods to go the route over the business earnings to have a Fiat On/Off ramp to avoid any problems at all.

@Fred So let's say I set up a company and business bank account using your service. Just wanted to clarify a couple things:

1. If all I have is crypto to work with, how would I be able to get the funds into my business bank account in order to pay myself a salary? Presumably I would have to use an exchange like Kraken as an offramp, but then in doing so would it not be obvious that my funds are coming from trading and not a business? Can you just clarify the workaround here.

2. Assuming I am able to go from crypto to fiat using whatever workaround you have in place, why would it be necessary to create a separate personal bank account. I mean, let's say I live in country X (with a territorial tax system), why could I not simply just transfer the fiat from my business bank account in Dubai to my personal bank account in country X?

Apologies if I'm a little slow to grasp your methods, but I am keenly interested in your approach which is why I want to be crystal clear on the steps involved.

Thanks again!

 

[Nasters]

@Curveball we could add, to complicate it a little more, that you were already a kraken customer.

 

[CaptK]

To use the exchanges in the UAE and not have issues from the bank then you need to receive a salary.

If Crypto is your source of income you have to use an OTC. Then pay that to your business account. Pay yourself a salary into your personal account and then purchase from exchange first. Do not cash out from the exchange without purchasing first.

That is the only safe way to do it. Speaking from countless tries of different methods.

Ideally forget using exchanges with your UAE account just do OTC to your business account not personal. If your money gets blocked you might as well kiss it goodbye until you go back there and see the bankers face to face.

 

[Fred]

@CaptK named it.

@Curveball did send you PM.

 

[JackAlabama]

Wait, you can buy property in Dubai for crypto???

In Africa too.
There are places there where the highest bill is like a couple of $ but decent places go for 150k $. Banks are mostly a complete joke and not good to use in many instances unless you know the people working on the inside.
So crypto is the obvious choice but it has its own pitfalls of course.

 

[sifn]

Interesting, so if banks become unfriendly and suspicious, assuming you are an UE/UK national + UAE resident + your crypto assets are legally acquired years ago: can you cash out from Kraken to say, a swiss bank, avoiding UAE banks, red flags and capital gain taxes?
Or am I missing a point?

 

[Kakarot]

so.... in summary.... is forming a UAE company a good idea still or not?

If you cannot get the corporate bank account there.... it's no better than having a BVI or Bahamas company anymore. Just a lot more expensive to form the company and maintain it in the UAE than those jurisdictions.

What's the final thoughts by everyone based on this news?

I feel unsure now about UAE -- but there's not a lot of good options I can even think of anymore where I can get low or zero tax, and a reputable bank account...

 

[Martin Everson]

What's the final thoughts by everyone based on this news?

Don't understand why Dubai not blacklisted like Caribbean .

Wish Dubai well.

 

[troubled soul]

Don't understand why Dubai not blacklisted like Caribbean .

Wish Dubai well.

May be because Caribbean does not have government sovereign fund with $239.38 billion USD
Money talks.

Investment Corporation of Dubai, UAE – $239.38 billion​

The Investment Corporation of Dubai (ICD) is the principal investment arm of the government of the UAE emirate Dubai. ICD was established in 2006 and consolidated the emirate’s existing portfolio of commercial companies and investments. The SWF is aiming to further Dubai’s presence globally and “enhance Dubai’s economic prosperity for future generations.”

 

[Martin Everson]

May be because Caribbean does not have government sovereign fund with $239.38 billion USD
Money talks.

Thats probably it...lol.

But Dubai is what Caribbean was in 80's, 90's and early 2000's with dirty money just flowing in. But Dubai gets a pass today with all the dirty money having flowed into it. Maybe I am too early to the party and Dubai has its day of reckoning and blacklisting coming.

 

[Fred]

May be because Caribbean does not have government sovereign fund with $239.38 billion USD
Money talks.

That's it.

And yes indeed Dubai is already last man standing so take the opportunity as long as it's available.

 

[Kakarot]

Fred's kinda right, in that where else can you get zero tax, zero accounting auditing etc thats also still a halfway respectably jurisdiction? I feel like UAE is kind of all thats left globally in a way.

Everywhere else there's some kinda tax, or accounting, auditing. I guess USA LLCs are very good too...

Because there is so much price difference in forming a cheap RAK UAE company... compared to a midrange priced JAFZA in dubai.... and then many increasing price options all the way up to the ultra expensive "Dubai Internet City Free zone" option....

can fred or others basically list all the zones... and then list the likelihood to get a corporate bank account for each zone -- (assuming you're a simple and legit business. nothing about you to raise red flags, etc, no bad citizenship or anything that would bias them against you.

I want to get the cheapest zone possible in UAE -- but one in which i still have decent shot to get the bank account.

because annual fees for some of these UAE companies are like 22,000 USD.

So If I made a HK company, pay 8.25% tax, make 200K USD -- the HK option after taxes, accounting, audit, and annual fee for the company....

might still be cheaper than a UAE premium company.

And if thats the case... i'd rather have a HK company.

 

[CaptK]

The French and Spanish tried and then took them off the list.

The amount of infrastructure the UK has put into the UAE plus the inevitable money that flows from around the world is too much investment kill with a blacklist. Because it is strategically placed between Asia Europe and Africa, too much real business happens there that it for the sake of commerce it won't happen for a long time.

If you look at IFZA Freezone it's run by the British. 90% of the senior staff are British. The Chairman of Emirates is British.
The British train the UAE army all the major banks boards have a Brit on there or senior members of staff.

 

[CaptK]

Fred's kinda right, in that where else can you get zero tax, zero accounting auditing etc thats also still a halfway respectably jurisdiction? I feel like UAE is kind of all thats left globally in a way.

Everywhere else there's some kinda tax, or accounting, auditing. I guess USA LLCs are very good too...

Because there is so much price difference in forming a cheap RAK UAE company... compared to a midrange priced JAFZA in dubai.... and then many increasing price options all the way up to the ultra expensive "Dubai Internet City Free zone" option....

can fred or others basically list all the zones... and then list the likelihood to get a corporate bank account for each zone -- (assuming you're a simple and legit business. nothing about you to raise red flags, etc, no bad citizenship or anything that would bias them against you.

I want to get the cheapest zone possible in UAE -- but one in which i still have decent shot to get the bank account.

because annual fees for some of these UAE companies are like 22,000 USD.

So If I made a HK company, pay 8.25% tax, make 200K USD -- the HK option after taxes, accounting, audit, and annual fee for the company....

might still be cheaper than a UAE premium company.

And if thats the case... i'd rather have a HK company.

There is a tax in the UAE it's call licence and renewal fee.