How about Belarus?

[RustCohle]

Context: small fish hustling with cashing out crypto in a privacy-oriented manner away from the communist empire aka EU in which I am unfortunately a citizen. Trying to get some in real estate for tiny passive income for rainy days.
I am now analyzing Belarus.
Pros:
1.No CRS
2.No lockdown madness, possible indicator of no future madness in case another world hysteria emerges
3. Crypto friendly (or so it seems..)
4. Relatively cheap
Cons:
1. Political turmoil
2. Language barrier
3. never been there, I don't know what I don't know.
4. Not sure if buying with cold hard cash works or if I get in trouble while I cash out 5 figures OTC.

My goal would be to cash out aprox 50k, buy a small studio, find a decent property management company and let it generate 200/300$ per month in a non-CRS Belarusian account, so I can afford ramen noodles in case I reach rock bottom at some point in life.

Any thoughts and ideas appreciated

 

[John Spectre]

Forget any third world countries for such purpose.
You are for sure could buy studio with cash, do some things that not possible in EU, but as not national of such country, with totally different mentality you probably would be shocked how different these countries are from your home.

 

[glengoolie]

i too was interested in Belarus but the long term visa is not friendly so i dropped it. but i liked what i heard and saw. and as for the bad PR, that's just western media trying to stir up s**t. not to mention the same people who paid the protesters in russia for the mi6 agent navalnij are paying protesters in belarus as well...we all know who these people are. hence i pay no attention to this and look at the country as a whole and i like what i see.

if you are looking for investment property i would not look there though. 50k can get you a studio but it wont get you 300 a month. if you want to have a place in case SHTF, look at georgia, bulgaria, serbia... if you want to protect your capital, just put it into S&P500 and get 10% annual growth, on average. if you want to invest in property, with 50k, that's tough. probably asia? but the net income will be tiny, if any, when you account for expenses.

check out https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4GDXIXka5LA-VdW9q3820w maybe you will find good info there

 

[RustCohle]

i too was interested in Belarus but the long term visa is not friendly so i dropped it. but i liked what i heard and saw. and as for the bad PR, that's just western media trying to stir up s**t. not to mention the same people who paid the protesters in russia for the mi6 agent navalnij are paying protesters in belarus as well...we all know who these people are. hence i pay no attention to this and look at the country as a whole and i like what i see.

if you are looking for investment property i would not look there though. 50k can get you a studio but it wont get you 300 a month. if you want to have a place in case SHTF, look at georgia, bulgaria, serbia... if you want to protect your capital, just put it into S&P500 and get 10% annual growth, on average. if you want to invest in property, with 50k, that's tough. probably asia? but the net income will be tiny, if any, when you account for expenses.

check out https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4GDXIXka5LA-VdW9q3820w maybe you will find good info there

Thank you for your reply, very valid points. I'm also skeptical about the protests in Belarus, watched a bunch of videos on it and none from the interviewed protesters was able to explain what exactly are they complaining about out ("we want a better future"..yeah, doesn't everyone?). I'm sure they have their hardships though, same as everywhere.
Regarding the other alternatives, I have already done a small deal in Georgia, might do more in the future, but I was looking to diversify as much as possible. If I'm not mistaken, Bulgaria does CRS reporting so I'm not so sure... But I will definitely be checking out Serbia.

 

[VESTANON]

Belarus is quite stable minus the recent debacle and media influenced squabbles
Quality for education is high and inexpensive,Great overall Index,affordable and quality living..obtaining a studio would do you good as an investment as tourism in belarus is relatively attractive and is a melting pot of sorts,

A few tips, be open to learn the language as well, for long term stay this can only be achieved through studying and Establishing a Joint Venture within the tourism sector/education section...

A few likable Gems Montenegro/Macedonia..though CRS factor, not sure how , and if thats just in the books rather than realistically..

 

[manukahoney]

PRO: Great people (much more friendlier than Russians, much less greedy than Ukrainians), good nature (if you are into forests/lakes), nice food and good infrastructure (flights from Minsk to almost everywhere, amazing roads, good restaurants, coworkings, etc), a lot of opportunities to work in IT (AI/ML being one of the strongest industries). Also worth mentioning - very cheap and the most beautiful girls on the planet.

CON: It's a totalitarian ex-Soviet country, nuff said. When (not if, but when) the current president will retire (hopefully from natural reasons), the country may or may not dive into chaos. If you are willing to bet on Belarus becoming a small Eastern European country - go for it. But the odds say that Russia will not let it happen.

 

[glengoolie]

trying to avoid CRS is fools errand. set yourself up in a way that allows you to pay as little taxes as possible, legally.

 

[Konstanz]

You would definitely be questioned by KGB in Belarus. It's such kind of country. It's very uncommon for westerners/Europeans to go living in Belarus.
UAE makes more sense than Belarus really. Also I don't think it would be cheaper to imigrate to Belarus than to UAE. To live in Belarus you would need long term Visa etc..

 

[John Spectre]

Agreed with @Konstanz.

Trying to evaluate ex-USSR country from the news and probably one or couple tourists trips is a not the way how anyone could make up real picture of the country in question of permanent residence. Despite the surface of the country are better to other ex-USSR countries like UA or RU, internally it's a same to these two.

When someone will try to scam you (no matter if it would be some local or goverment representative like a judge or militsiya officer), don't forget to smile, because roads are good and girls are beautiful

A lot of locals go to the protests and run risks of their health or even life not because the country such beautiful. Just think about it.
I don't know anyone from BY who supports current regime and against protests.
Everyone against Lukashenko. They only divided to two parts: who are brave enough and take part in the protests and second one just quietly sit at home.

 

[khinkali]

What about Hi Tec Park? Its residents include EPAM (massive IT outsourcing company listed on NYSE) and Game Stream (World of Tanks). HTP seems to be growing fast in the last couple of years and mostly it's exporting $billions of services to EU and US. Tax free until at least 2023.

Lukashenko is certainly going to crack down on Crypto use by BE citizens, but has otherwise been friendly to crypto. currency.com is based there. You can get regulated for wallets, exchanges, securitisations and ICOs.

 

[KJK]

You would definitely be questioned by KGB in Belarus. It's such kind of country. It's very uncommon for westerners/Europeans to go living in Belarus.
UAE makes more sense than Belarus really. Also I don't think it would be cheaper to imigrate to Belarus than to UAE. To live in Belarus you would need long term Visa etc..

I wouldn't be surprised if an European willing to immigrate to Belarus would be considered a counter-intelligence agent. There even is a Youtuber - BaldAndBankrupt - who has some nice videos about everyday life in Belarus and other CIS countries. The funny thing is he may have been a British secret service agent in the past. Anyways, his videos are great to get a feel of the country.

I think Belarus (same as Ukraine, Russia, Georgia, Balkan countries...) has absolutely amazing potential if the regime changes. No western bulls**t, no sjw, less regulation, well educated population, great nature.

However, I would never consider these countries "crypto-friendly". There will be one of the two problems - either the government will try to ban it (Russia already tries), or the banks won't understand it and will be risk-averse. Usually you will get both these problems.

So probably the better solution is to choose some other country, stay under the radar, do not create nonsense bulls**t plans and structures. For cashout and/or life you can also consider Switzerland, UAE, some LatAm countries, depending on your net worth. If you are looking for a poor-man's solution, I think you can still find better places than Belarus - including some in Eastern Europe.

 

[RustCohle]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I never intended to move there or to live there. I am only considering as a tiny investment/small income back pocket solution. Something like a small apartment generating a tiny income that I can use in case some disaster happens and I need ramen noodles money until I get back on my feet.

 

[John Spectre]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I never intended to move there or to live there. I am only considering as a tiny investment/small income back pocket solution. Something like a small apartment generating a tiny income that I can use in case some disaster happens and I need ramen noodles money until I get back on my feet.

At even this tiny connection to the Belarus, you would get serious problems, which for Europe citizen would like strange

Almost nobody uses 'property management companies' in ex USSR countries. Even the question if reliable of these exists for low cost properties.(such companies usually stole part of income, lie about rental clients, etc).
Most of the clients will prefer to pay cash instead of bank transfer.
Even if you got money on bank account, currency control will deny it from sending to the non-BY bank,
you would like rental contract for the clients, but mostly all rentals are going without contract at all,
even contract with non-resident is more problematic than with resident, because side effects like taxes, etc etc.
So thinking that you could chill on some Asia region while having stable income from country like Belarus is a mostly wrong way.
This is sure possible, but you need to know mentality of the local people and know what to do by yourself and how to fix\avoid problem, which is not your case, unfortunately.

 

[Konstanz]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I never intended to move there or to live there. I am only considering as a tiny investment/small income back pocket solution. Something like a small apartment generating a tiny income that I can use in case some disaster happens and I need ramen noodles money until I get back on my feet.

Buy in USA. USA is not a part of CRS and probably better option than Belarus

 

[melzvy]

Ask this question in Belarusian discussion forums (use online translation tools to English <-> Russian)
Fly to Minsk and stay there for at least 2 weeks.
Get a real feeling how is life there and try to talk to locals.

You will get a lot of information that you don't consider and is different than EU countries.

 

[VESTANON]

Ask this question in Belarusian discussion forums (use online translation tools to English <-> Russian)
Fly to Minsk and stay there for at least 2 weeks.
Get a real feeling how is life there and try to talk to locals.

You will get a lot of information that you don't consider and is different than EU countries.

I concur with the above, alot of perspective given without upfront experience, links,execution etc..

 

[Silvio]

At even this tiny connection to the Belarus, you would get serious problems, which for Europe citizen would like strange

Almost nobody uses 'property management companies' in ex USSR countries. Even the question if reliable of these exists for low cost properties.(such companies usually stole part of income, lie about rental clients, etc).
Most of the clients will prefer to pay cash instead of bank transfer.
Even if you got money on bank account, currency control will deny it from sending to the non-BY bank,
you would like rental contract for the clients, but mostly all rentals are going without contract at all,
even contract with non-resident is more problematic than with resident, because side effects like taxes, etc etc.
So thinking that you could chill on some Asia region while having stable income from country like Belarus is a mostly wrong way.
This is sure possible, but you need to know mentality of the local people and know what to do by yourself and how to fix\avoid problem, which is not your case, unfortunately.

I totally agree. Buying and thinking you can manage and get rent from a small apartment in a country you don't know, speaking a language you don't know, in an ex-USSR dictatorship where people disappear in the streets for protesting gotta be one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
Even in a NORMAL West European country you can easily get scammed by property mgmt companies stealing or inflating costs and fees. Most of them are not worth it if you only have one unit. Managing even a single unit on remote control from abroad will lead you trouble.

There is a reason why most of these countries are shitholes. Even if some YouTube offshore Nomad Capital!st scammer says you need to go to "frontier markets" to make money doesn't mean he knows WTF he is doing - more likely he is just luring you there to charge you big fees on introductions, finding deals, etc. Do yourself a favor, make more money and emigrate to a tax-free country.

 

[JackAlabama]

But I advise doing so from away like many here. It will not work. It did not even really work well in Western Europe as I had to figure out.
Better buy two places close together and you manage one and live in the other.

If you commit to being there for some years, network and date if you are single and which helps with learning the local language, you can hit it nicely and have a good / low cost life.

 

[AHipster]

Andrei Burdenkov has a quite useful YT-channel with lots of advice. Also has a website with more info for tourists and investors.

Several cases where he has help people similar to original poster find property and relocate to Belarus.

Useful for those with real interest. The prejudiced types will just stay ignorant. Thanks and have a nice day.