juristic person without owner / beneficiaries - foundation? avoid liability, taxes, protect assets?

Discussion in 'Offshore Company formation' started by miner, Aug 5, 2018.

  1. miner

    miner Active Member

    "Own nothing, control everything." Does it work?

    Is it possible to have a juristic person that does not have an owner?

    A foundation is its own legal personality. It's owned by nobody. It owns itself.

    A foundation cannot make business but it can own an IBC which does business.

    Foundations vs. Trusts says "A foundation does not need to have any beneficiaries."
    "As there are no shareholders or ‘owners’ and there is no requirement to have beneficiaries,"

    So no owners, no beneficiaries, no shareholders.

    Is it possible for an IBC owned by a foundation to get a bank account? Wouldn't the bank ask who is the UBO (ultimate beneficial owner) is? Is "there is none" an acceptable answer? :)

    Could such a structure be used to legally avoid CFC (controlled foreign company laws)?

    How to get money out of it? Well, a salary and paying income tax on it? At least company tax would be legally avoided.

    How to get a lot money out of it? Become tax resident in a zero tax country, and if one controls the structure, no one is going to ask any questions?
  2. Martin Everson

    Martin Everson Offshore Consultant Business Angel

    Yes of course.

    It is not possible in 2018 to get a bank account for such an entity without declaring the UBO to bank. Don't waste your time going down this route its 2018. Bank needs to know human UBO. I have discussed this in another thread you can search for in forum when question was last asked.

    Yes. Certain companies from certain countries have legally used such structures to circumvent sanctions. Problem is banking.

    You won't have an account to put money into in the first place so you won't reach stage of getting money out.

    Why not just move to a zero tax country in first place and save yourself the stress. You are quoting articles from 2014 and we are in 2018. The world has moved on in terms of compliance and regulation.
    miner and MrTony like this.
  3. Martin Everson

    Martin Everson Offshore Consultant Business Angel

    Declare the UBO to bank as is required.

    That's a bit like a stripper saying I am only going to do this until I make enough money and then I will quit...lol. Face reality if your not moving now then there is little chance you will move later. When talking about accumulating funds offshore you need to look at you currently local tax law says to determine what is possible. Sadly building offshore funds secretly and then hoping to move at a later date will probably not work as governments have clocked on and will be closing all the doors on this practice.You also mentioned nominee shareholder but a nominee is just that a nominee. Much more substance is needed than a nominee in 2018 to avoid CFC :-(
  4. Martin Everson

    Martin Everson Offshore Consultant Business Angel

    Do you know what a nominee is? You can get in trouble in some countries like Netherlands for creating such an artificial sham construct.

    What country are you from firstly?
  5. Martin Everson

    Martin Everson Offshore Consultant Business Angel

    So if the shareholder was asked under oath if he was a "genuine shareholder" or a "nominee shareholder" what would he reply in a court of law????? It is that simply to expose sham entities ;-) You would find yourself accused by taxman of creating an artificial construct to simply avoid paying taxes and that's the problem my friend.

    I can't say I know anything about Hungarian tax laws. I would seek professional local tax advice. I imagine it cannot be that expensive to get a good lawyer for 2-3 hours work :)
  6. Martin Everson

    Martin Everson Offshore Consultant Business Angel

    I was being sarcastic to make the point that a nominee does not have your back for the i.e $200 you pay them a year. They will throw you to the wolves at the first official letter they receive from a government agency asking the same question.

    In 2018 the lawyers and accountants that offer these services are treated the same way as people who sell fur coats are - i.e it is no longer considered acceptable although it is still done.I would relocate to a tax friendly country and then setup all the offshore companies you want.
  7. rockrock

    rockrock New Member

    I guess crypto currencies, Bitcoin or maybe in future the Theter alternative TrueCoin can help here? Certainly only a solution for a few people who can work like that. One could get paid in crypto currencies to business crypto currency account. Keep the money in the company. Reinvest. Cash out salary to private crypto currency account. I guess problem is finding a local tax adviser that could confirm this setup and even if looking up it would be uncharted water in the courts.
  8. Admin

    Admin Forum Moderator The Forum Cleaner

    Don't you think that if you open a Mister Tango business account it could help for the local tax advisor to be able to sort this out? I wonder, since it would be easy to do business like this.
  9. rockrock

    rockrock New Member

    Not sure that question is for me or if I even get the question right.

    A mistertango buisness account with such a setup would be paradise but I doubt mistertango would open a business account since there is no human UBO?

    A private mistertango account might help the local tax advisor with personal income tax compliance though.